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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by GrayWo1f3 xim4: 1/25/2016 3:03:00 AM
361

SBMM sucks as a top tier player... let me explain.

SBMM: Skill Based Match Making will try to put you up against someone as skilled as you, it will initially search close by then open up the search to all across the country/ internationally until it can find someone on your level regardless how far away they are... So if you are an average top 50% player with a 1.2 KD then theres literally millions of you guys all over the place, chances are theres someone of your skill level next door to you... you'll find matches much faster and they'll be local more times than not. Whereas for me, or anyone else in the top 1% with a 2.0+ KD there's literally not many of us, and chancea are most of them are already in a game or offline, so it tries to find a 2.0+ KD player nearby but theres none available so it keeps searching getting further and further away until it can find one even if they're in another country. Tldr; the higher your KDr the harder it is to find someone on your level, so you'll frequently end up VSing international players. The lower your KDr the more players there are for you to match against, so you'll frequently have less lag because you'll be playing locals. Fun fact: insane download speeds aren't important for online gaming... only your ping truly matters really and if you're playing someone internationally it doesnt matter if you both have 500mb down and upload speeds YOU WILL LAG due to the fact your ping will be shit travelling that far... Am i wrong? Did i miss anything? Has this helped anyone understand why SBMM is so shit... [b]EDIT:[/b] just want to say thanks for everyone keeping this relatively salt free xD and that i believe SBMM takes more into account than just your KD, i feel like its either based off your ELO or a formula very similar to ELO (your ELO is measured by kills/wins/win ratio/KD/the level of opponents your beating etc... its complicated.) SBMM is bad for everyone...

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  • bump

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  • I get matched up quite frequently with players from Quebec and New England and I live in Nova Scotia which is quite a distance away. As a result I see at least 3 or 4 players red barred and the matches end up being a waste of time.

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  • Hey, I have a question: What does it mean when people say that lag is killing their chances of doing well in PVP? Is it because it affects others (like having them take no damage)? I'm new to PVP and I'm hearing all this stuff about the old matching system verses this one. I've heard both arguments and I'm not sure which one is a. (so called "right" or b. "wrong". ) Or is this an just an opinion that is not necessarily either? Note: I don't really have an opinion on which is better because the new system is all I've ever known for PVP. Thanks for reading.

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  • Edited by TheArtist: 1/26/2016 11:56:04 AM
    Nope. Didnt' miss anything....just came to the wrong conclusion. 1. Yes, for outliers like yourself, SBMM (without regard for connection speed) can be bad. You will either face very long wait times to find matches, or possibly get matches with a lot of latency because you're being paired with people who are geographically very far away. 2. If upload and download speeds are the FLOW RATE at which data can move through your internet pipe, ping time is the LENGTH of the pipe and how fast data can get from one place to another. The farther away the other computer...the longer the ping time. Regardless of whether its is someone else's console...or a dedicated server. 3. While pure connection speed matchmaking works for someone like you, or someone who lives n a remote area (few pipes) or with poor internet infrastructure (bad or leaky pipes).....it doesn't serve the average player....and HURTS the new or low skill player. A point that highly skilled players like yourself seem to be CONSISTENTLY out of touch with. There is a saying in sports. "That the best players often make the worst coaches". That's because what it takes to succeed often comes very EASILY to the very best players. So they've never been forced to think about HOW they do what they do, or how to communicate this to other people. So the best coaches, are often people who were averate to somewhat above average players (at the professional level) , because they had to struggle more to learn the game, and put more thought into how to go about playing it. Point? Being consistently thrown into games (in a comp shooter) with people who are way above your skill level is NOT FUN to a new player or a low-skill the player. Its like being dropped onto the field of an NFL game as a middle-school football player. The game is too fast. Its too confusing...and you are simply not competitive. So even when you make the right decision, you often fail because your not fast enough or accurate enough to press the advantage that right decision would have given another player. So you don't even get the benefit of even being able to recognize what was a bad decision...and what was a good decision that someone thwarted simply to do superior talent and experience. YOU DONT" LEARN. SO THERE IS VERY LITTLE IF ANY LEARNING THAT TAKES PLACE FROM THE FAILURE. JUST FRUSTRATION, HUMILIATION....AND DEMORALIZATION. You don't hear about that end of things...because most very good players either didn't go through this or that period in their gaming lives was very short....and those who DO go throughs generally don't hang around to complain about the lack of SBMM. THEY SIMPLY QUIT...AND THE GAME STAGNATES (like CoD is doing) because you can't add new players to the game with any easy fashion. Because the price of entry is too high....and players like yourself work to KEEP it that way. (Which is what you are doing right now by claiming that its bad for everyone...despite admitting in the first part of your post that is primarily just bad for people like yourself.) So what the game needs is a BALANCE between SBMM and connection speed. Below a certain ping time....prioritize skill. When prioritizing skill threatens to take push matchmaking beyond a certain time limit....or above a certain ping....open up the pool of matches to keep the ping time below the ceiling where it starts to negatively affect game play. That's whats best for everyone.

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    • SBMM would be ok if it worked. But in the real world it doesn't. There's too many deciding factors in skill rather than just one or two stats. You got people who make percentage plays. People who throw bodies at objectives clearing it for teammates. Neither of these play styles earn a good k/d. But they win games a lot. Basically instead of the random spread of skilled/unskilled players with everyone being able to at least kill someone on the other team, now we have a pattern. 1. You get matched with kindergaurdians and AFKs. -you do well 2. Game takes performance into account 3. You get matched with gods. -you get pounded into the ground 4. Game takes performance into account 5. Repeat steps 1-4 The point is, you almost never actually get a full team of equals to play against. So why bother with SBMM anyway? Bungie says its to maintain their desired 50% win/loss record. But that's fundamentally wrong in competitive PVP. If you're doing well, you should have a win/loss to reflect it.

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    • Sbmm is not bad for everyone. I am in more competitive matches as I am not just getting pub stomped by top tier players who are there just for the thrill of pub stomping and getting some easy experience by completing bounties The fact that I am alive more in games is allowing me to learn the maps and become more aware of what is happening around me and learn how to work as a team with randoms. I am improving and as I improve I'm getting matched with better players. This is teaching me how to play, not how to camp (which is what was happening with a lot of the newcomers) I am lucky that I haven't seen much lag but lag in some matches is the [b]only[/b] genuine complaint I have seen. Everything else is special snowflakes who are upset about their kds being spoilt. Maybe the new matchmaking system which will be turned on for IB will help you get matches with less lag

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    • Edited by docalvaran: 1/27/2016 8:32:51 AM
      Can anyone explain how i got to top 2% in control when i know for myself i suck with 1.09 kd ratio. I guess kd really is not that important since i got to top 2% with my scrub kd lol. P.s. was top 1% 2 days ago.

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      • You've just got to be sharper with that mouse man :/

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        • I'm not sure you understand how percentages work.

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        • Top tier player? U snipe with a mouse and keyboard lol

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          • Edited by CobraKye6: 1/26/2016 11:45:57 PM
            ♤€£\¥}~♤☆¥《¡○■~¥~}|¡▪£|¡~¥`♧○》▪£□¡○♡•¡•£¤}○¡~

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            • Hey! Wait a minute... You use a mouse and -blam!-ing keyboard!!!! Hey everybody, this guy uses a mouse and keyboard!!!

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            • The day I upgraded to Google fiber, one of the best connections in the states, Destiny crucible has been a nightmare. The system blatantly favors the worst connection. I have lost count on how many times the top person also is red latency. No coincidence at all. Tired of playing people half across the world for some pseudo skill match.

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            • Another new day and it still appears SBMM is aids. Gg bungle

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            • I wouldn't class myself that good at Crucible but I always get match made against sweatys when I just wanna chill and have a good time. My play style is no where near similar to theirs. SBMM sucks. Should just base it off connections. Stupid Bungie.

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              • Edited by KebintheGervil: 1/26/2016 6:46:05 PM
                Your point about the ping speeds is well founded except.... Bear in mind that the person right next door to you may not be with the same provider and any connection they use will travel to their ISP before going anywhere. The same applies with your connection. The ping between you will be determined by quality of line between the two endpoints, the distance to a lesser degree, how many people are using the same line (contention ratio), and the lines' speeds amongst other things. It's too simplistic to simply state distance is what causes lag (although it does have an impact).

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              • Just to rectify this a bit. You don't need a 2.0+ KDr to get laggy connections. Anything above 1.3 will lag. And 1.3 is quite close to the average Destiny PVP players. In my clan, most are in that 1.2-1.5 KDr region, and they still lag like hell, even when going solo. I myself am on 1.77, and finding a match takes ages, and it's 7/10 a laggy one. Another member has a 2.0 KDr and has my same problem. So, SBMM actually affects a lot more than the 1%.

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              • I agree that SBMM is bad but in all honesty, your only upset because you know a 2.0 will be impossible to maintain!

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                • It is based upon ELO, but having not played PvP since last IB, does it take into account your total skill or just from past few matches? I ask simply because there are the odd games where I can run a 2.0+ kd on a regular basis, I know my overall kd sucks, but as a yr 1 player I helped alot of players through the exotic PvP bounties like Thorn. So would I be judged in SBMM on recent games?

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                  • I'm not the best but it's really annoying marching the exact same people day after day

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                  • Something has been bothering me about this... I keep seeing people saying that their k/d is suffering because of sbmm. It seems like for most people, they would sometimes play people who are much better than them, and sometimes they would play people who are much worse. So it seems if they play against people who are at about the same skill level it would even out

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                  • Hey just do what I did and start playing jc3

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                  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkckIxUKLio

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                  • "Top tier" player upset because with skill based match making he really isnt top tier.

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                    • SBMM in a peer to peer system or a public non ranked playlist is always bad. People play to enjoy the game, not have the game be unplayable due to connectiin issues. That being said the occasional white wash of one team destroying the other is far less frequent than a decent chunk of the playerbase finding the game unplayable.

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                    • Don't you sweat? Shouldn't really care about your kd if that's the case.

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