Bump.

Bump

Bump, great post. Agreed wholeheartedly!

[quote]Cozmo gave this thread a shoutout in his recent post regarding raid loot: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/173344613/0/0 As some of you know, I quit Destiny. I put a lot of time into this game, and so I've been reflecting on what really made me say "enough is enough." Well, I had a revelation: [i]There is no incentive to be max level, and therefore no incentive to acquire new, more powerful gear.[/i] And in a game all about grinding for new gear, that revelation basically eliminated my motivation for playing. Why max light (and grinding for it) is pointless: [b][u]1. You only need high level gear for endgame content.[/u][/b] Imagine your team beating the hard raid. All of you start at 307 light. By the end of it, you're all 311 light. Pretty cool, right? Not really. You see, although your light increased, it doesn't really matter outside of the raid. -Strikes (all easy after about 280 light). -Daily Heroics (all easy after 280 light). Crucible (light doesn't matter). Endgame crucible (light matters, but it still has the same problem as the raid. [i]Where else is the loot you get needed, outside of the activity you earned it in?[/i] Once you understand this basic design flaw, you realize that raid, IB, and Trials gear serves only two purposes: Cosmetics and Prestige. Maybe you really like the way the endgame gear looks. Or maybe you want to be able to show it off as proof of your victories. Or maybe you don't care about either of these things and just want to have fun. If you fall into this third category, then endgame content is completely pointless for you. Moving on to Point #2... [b][u]2. "Archetypes" and Reskins[/u][/b] Even [i]if[/i] you acquire every weapon and armor piece in the game, a lot of them are just reskins. The armor pieces make virtually no difference, and the weapons are mostly the same guns in different colors. Example: The Reflection Sum is the same "archetype" as Nerwin's Mercy. What does this mean, exactly? [b]It means they are the same gun.[/b] Which begs the question, why bother grinding for both? Why not just acquire the best weapon in each archetype and just stop? Examples of "best" weapons in each archetype. [b]excluding exotics[/b]: Conspiracy Theory-D: The new "Felwinter's Lie." Virtually eliminates the incentive to grind for any other shotgun. Outperforms both the raid and trials shotguns. Awarded to your player by the vanguard with a "perfect roll." 1000 Yard Stare: The new "LDR 5001." Another weapon awarded by the vanguard, or sold by them. Makes every other sniper virtually obsolete. Outperforms both the raid and trials snipers. The Hung Jury: The new "Vision of Confluence." Sold by Dead Orbit with another "perfect roll." Near 100 stability [i]and[/i] firefly. Obliterates both the raid and trials scout rifles. Do you see where I'm going with this? When you base all of your weapons off of archetypes, it creates a huge problem. That problem is the fact that each archetype will always have a "best" weapon. And if the endgame weapons are not the best in their arch, then why bother grinding for them? Year 1 players may recall that endgame weapons actually once [i]were[/i] the best in their archetypes by a mile. Fatebringer? Easily best in class. VoC? Easily best in class. Felwinter's Lie? EASILY best in class. Praedyth's Revenge? Easily best (for high RoF Snipers*) Corrective Measure? No competition among high RoF machine guns. The Summoner? Highest impact, max stability, [i]and[/i] Third Eye? Absolute beast. The Messenger? Highest impact, max stability, [i]and[/i] Third Eye? [b]Absolute beast.[/b] It's not just that these weapons were good. It's the fact that they dominated their archetypes. It made collecting any other weapons in that class completely pointless. The reason I never cared about getting Silimar's Wrath was because it was in the same arch as Atheon's Epilogue, and Atheon's Epilogue was better. So why grind to IB rank 5 for a [i]worse[/i] version of a gun I already have? Again...cosmetics, and prestige. Those are literally the only 2 reasons. Moving on to my last point... 3. [b][u]You knew it was coming...RNG[/u][/b] Let's pretend you don't care about points 1 and 2, and you still want to grind for endgame gear just because you're a collector, okay? There are plenty of players out there who just want a full VoG set, or a full King's Fall set, just to have it. There's nothing wrong with that. But for you collectors out there, Destiny TTK makes the grind more grueling than ever. Not only is the raid rng awful to begin with, but there is now a "double RNG" with the new light system. Year 1 players all know the VoG RNG was just terrible. However, I'd take VoG RNG over King's Fall RNG any day. Here's why. If I got a Found Verdict, it was just that, a Found Verdict. Not a Found Verdict at 301 light, or 304 or 307. No, once I had the gun, I had it, end of story. The problem lies in the fact that [b]Bungie removed Ascendant Materials and Etheric Light.[/b] Do you guys remember how it worked? Ascendant Materials and Etheric Light were used to max out gear. If you had a 300 attack Fatebringer, you could automatically make it 365. If you had a 331 Abyss Defiant, YOU could automatically made it 365. Since there were GUARANTEED ways to get Etheric Light, getting max level gear was totally within [i]your[/i] control. Even in year 1, when endgame gear dropped, you had the power to max it out with Ascendant Energy or Ascendant Shards. But now? Now, even [i]IF[/i] a piece of raid gear drops for you, it could be worse than the gear you're already wearing. 304 light ghost? Trash, already have a 310 ghost. 302 boots? Trash, I already have 313 boots. 305 chest? Trash, my chest is 316. You see what I mean? There is double RNG, because not only do you have to get lucky enough to get the gear in the first place, but you have get lucky a SECOND time for it to actually be high enough light for you to not just instantly dismantle it. Check this out... 1. Harrowed Path of Xol 310 2. Harrowed Path of Xol 311 3. Harrowed Path of Xol 312 4. Harrowed Path of Xol 313 5. Harrowed Path of Xol 314 6. Harrowed Path of Xol 315 7. Harrowed Path of Xol 316 8. Harrowed Path of Xol 317 9. Harrowed Path of Xol 318 10. Harrowed Path of Xol 319 11. [b][u]Harrowed Path of Xol 320[/u][/b] [b]11 [u]POSSIBLE[/u] Raid Boots, Chests, Gauntlets, and Helmets![/b] And that's IF you don't just get moldering shards. Bungie...this is [b]insane.[/b] Not only can killing a boss in the hard raid drop [b][u]nothing[/u][/b], but they can still drop [i]normal[/i] gear! Let me say that again in case you missed it...NORMAL gear can still drop in the HARD raid. This is outrageous. Multiply that by 4, and that's 44 POSSIBLE pieces of raid gear. Instead of...4. Remember the days when all gear dropped at the same level every time? Back in the days of VoG, that crazy list above would have looked like this: 1. Tread of the Hezen Lords Yes, folks, THAT'S IT. Sure, you had a chance of only getting ascendant materials, but once you had the boots, you had them, end of story. None of this "11 potential light levels" nonsense. Bungie, do you realize that the chances of getting a specific 320 armor piece from Golgoroth is currently only 3%? Hard Golgoroth's loot table can drop 33 potential pieces of gear. (If we assume the normal and hard loot tables remain separate if one has not already completed normal before completing hard, then there are 33 items in the hard loot table, not including moldering shards): Hard Arms x 11 Hard Chest x 11 Hard Legs x 11 Grand Total: 33 POTENTIAL DROPS Chances of getting a specific piece at 320: [b][u]1 out of 33 = 3.33%[/u][/b] Now, compare that to Vault of Glass... Hard Templar Potential Loot: 1. Ascendant Energy 2. Ascendant Shards 3. Raid Arms 4. Raid Chest 5. Raid Boots 6. Found Verdict 7. Praedyth's Revenge 8. Fatebringer Chances of getting a specific armor piece (or weapon): 1 out of 8 = 12.5% Still not great odds, but look at this... 12.5% - 3% = 9.5% 9.5 ÷ 12.5 = .76 What this means... [b]Your chances of getting raid arms, boots, or a chest piece from Golgoroth are 76% lower than your chances of the getting the same armor pieces from the Templar.[/b] Numbers don't lie, folks. Not only do you only have a 3% chance of getting a specific armor piece (at 320 light) from Golgoroth, but that "3%" is 76% LESS than the original raid's drop rate. [b][u]Conclusion[/u][/b] So then the real question is [i]why?[/i] Why would Bungie make it so difficult to reach 320 light? Answer: Because they want you to keep playing. Not because having terrible chances of getting the best loot makes the game more fun (it doesn't), but simply because they want you to keep signing in, week after week. That's all they care about. And that's precisely why I'm no longer giving them any more of my time. Wake up, and ask yourself: "Why do I play this game?" If the answer is "because it's fun," then keep playing. If the answer is "because I want loot," quit the game right now. Or at least take a break until Bungie updates the game with a FREE expansion to actually make it worth your time again. But please, whatever you do, don't just keep chasing the carrot, because, trust me, you will NOT get it for a very, VERY long time. Sincerely, Dom. Cozmo's Response: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/173344613/0/0[/quote]

It's official the game has become BORING AND MONOTONOUS,POOR REWARDS,BAD LEVELING,(you can't get that God status against significantly lower level enemies) LAG ISSUES PLAIG ALL REGONS OF GAMERS and somehow it's managed to get less social THE WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE EVER

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Bump

Fantastically put. Well done for fighting our corner in such a manner.

The leveling system at this moment needs to be scrapped. I want to go back to the year one system. I liked when I got a gun and didn't have to find another one to upgrade it. Also I want ghosts and class items to be cosmetic again.

I love posts like these

Something like this is already happening. However, I think it is weighted heavily to drop gear LL - 5 most common on raid loot. It's designed to give more drops but actually less often will you get anything worth it. Gambling and deception. Illusion of progression to addict the gamer.

Bump

Yep

Yeah, I can get behind this.

I agree I hate it how I'm 310 and even buying legendary engrams still only gives me stuff which is 300 and below.

It's too the point I turn down raid runs now. It's not just the light level drops it's the fact I can do most of Kingsfall on Hard (haven't beaten Oyrx yet because I can't get my light level high enough for proper damage) & get nothing... because moldering shards are as good as nothing.

I agree with the pretext of your post, but I disagree with your solution. Rather than scale drops to your light level, they should just allow us to infuse motes directly into weapons/armor to increase light level. 1 mote = +1 light on the item. They can tweak the starting light levels for all armor/weapons so that it can be lower because motes are so easy to earn. People will level up regardless of PVP focus or PVE focus because earning experience = motes, plus you get them for completing events, out of drops, completing matches, etc. This removes RNG entirely from light progression and allows people to hit the cap without having to DO certain activities, which they may or may not want to play. Are you a solo player? This system would allow you to reach the cap. Basically, anyone can reach the cap with enough time and effort, so long as you don't spend 100% of your time in the tower. It will still be a grind to obtain the 500-600+ motes it would take for you to reach the cap if all base gear starts around 220-240. But it definitely decouples light progression from RNG, which allows people to pursue their own desires in Destiny. This would quite literally bring back the fun in Destiny because you will always be working towards something, and have at least a minimal level of progress to show for your hours played. And it would not take wholesale change to do so. We keep the infusion system which DOES have its good points, but we scrap the bad side of it and replace it with something that is more practical. And the extra motes should not be an issue as people can use those to unlock weapons perks still. Finally, doing so would make all previous content immediately relevant again, if only to farm the previous raids and POE for motes/shards/materials to trade in for more motes. This, without having to upgrade the difficulty level for those raids (which we know Bungie is avoiding).

I agree with this all the way would make the endless grind a little more bearable

Bump. I like it. But the patrols scaling would be hard on the lower level players. I'm in full agreement on the rest of the scaling tho. Makes me wonder why it's not in place already.

Smely

that would knock us off the hampster wheel tho.... they cant have that....

Bump