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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by JHarv: 10/18/2015 8:15:16 PM
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JHarv

Adopting a traditional MMO style loot system for End-game

I still haven't figured out why Bungie hasn't done this yet. [u][b]The History[/b][/u] We kicked off Destiny with the "Forever 29" system. [u]All of your power was dictated by reaching the light level cap of 30.[/u] If you were a single gear piece below 30, you had something like a 30% decrease in your effective health and damage output. To make matters worse, RNG was the only way to earn that level. If your warlock raid boots never dropped, you were stuck feeling weak and like a burden to any team, despite being a seasoned veteran when it came to raid mechanics. The we entered the alt-running phase of the game with The Dark Below. I can't tell you how many of my friends would delete a character to roll multiples of the same class, just to run the glorified strike that was Crota's End several times per week for Radiant Shards and Energies. Getting the gear was substantially easier than it was in the Vault of Glass, but leveling it up was the time gate, unless you decided to bypass that road block by [u]deleting and re-running the raid several times per week just for those Radiant materials.[/u] Another failure to the raid loot system that left players feeling underwhelmed and not in control of their power. With the release of the House of Wolves came the introduction of Etheric Light. [u]Etheric Light[/u], in theory, was a nice way to bring your previous gear pieces up to the level cap, but [u]quickly made everything else in the game obsolete[/u] -- especially if you were sitting with the lethal Fatebringer, Black Hammer, and Gjallarhorn trio. The fundamental flaw of making every piece of gear in the game relevant again (and at maximum power) is that it all needs to be balanced. Otherwise, there would be no reason for anyone to ever chase after anything else! This, coupled with reforging, lead to pretty much every player in the game with the exact same PvE and PvP load outs and armor sets, which only exposed Bungie's inability to provide any sort of balance outside the standard automatic balancing of RNG gifting certain players with certain items. Now that we're a good month into The Taken King, Bungie has acknowledged that powering up everything in the game with Etheric Light, grinding for limited materials that only drop in the raid to slowly level up gear, and so heavily favoring light level as the only means of acquiring power were all flawed systems. Why not take a step toward a system that has proven to work for years and years in any other successful end-game oriented MMO style of game? [u][b]The Solution[/b][/u] We all know that Destiny isn't a traditional MMO, but it [i]is[/i] really heavily centered around team-based PvE content. They want you playing PvE. They want you raiding. They want you chasing drops until you're blue in the face. This is no secret. But why not adopt the system that we all know works for players and developers alike? They don't want us to get bored and acquire everything we'll ever need in the expansion too quickly. They want us to keep playing. Keep grinding. And we want some sort of loot guarantee for our efforts. I can't be alone in being frustrated that a raid run can yield nothing but Moldering Shards and low light armor and weapon drops that I already have. [u]Just bring in the classic "raid token" system.[/u] We all want it, we all deserve it, it would make us feel like we have some sort of guarantee for our efforts. After you enter the portal into the King's Fall raid, a chest with some little goodies is a great start. Chests throughout the raid with "chance" drops like exotics, runes, ammo, engrams, and Moldering Shards is fine! I fully support that! It's the boss drops. [u]Boss drops have to get better.[/u] Taking the joy out of seeing purple loot bouncing around by knowing that it's probably a 302 chest piece that you already have a higher level version of is a crushing feeling. Not to mention, one of those purple drops is just Moldering Shards any way! Why?! We should never feel deflated by seeing one purple engram sitting next to a bosses corpse after a glorious kill knowing it isn't even loot! [u]Every raid should have 2 guaranteed raid token drops.[/u] One dropping off of a boss, one dropping off of Oryx. Now, hear me out. [u]Every boss in the raid should have a chance to drop a raid token, but only one can drop that week.[/u] This encourages people to actually play through the whole thing, without skipping bosses knowing what guaranteed loot each boss will drop. You can't just kill Golgoroth for the raid token and then leave, for example. Finally, [u]a raid token should be granted for full completion of the raid.[/u] Every part of the raid, cleared, that week, by that character. Perhaps a weekly raid bounty available to each of your characters that requires you kill all bosses to cash in for a raid token could be a nice addition? To sum that up. Full clearing the raid gives you one raid token. This doesn't have to be in order, just every part must be completed. On top of that, each boss has a chance to drop a raid token. If you kill all of the bosses except one without a drop, you're guaranteed to get it on that last boss. If you get lucky and get it on say, the Warpriest, you cannot get another one from the other bosses. In other words, RNG will determine what boss gives you the token, but you're guaranteed to get it. Still with me? [u][b]The Rationale[/b][/u] 2 raid tokens per week is not enough to fully gear someone up in that week, but it does guarantee 2 items of your choice per raid clear (one token if you get lucky one one boss and don't finish the rest). The RNG comes in with other items, like weapons, and 20 Moldering Shards can grant you an opportunity for a bonus piece of armor or weapon on top of everything else. More incentive to full clear, grab shards, and kill Oryx. With this system in place, we don't gear up in a week and stop playing, but we also get rewarded for our time. Win/win. [u][b]The Implementation[/b][/u] The best way to implement this system is to have a [u]Raid Armor vendor[/u] standing in a section of the tower, previewing all of the armor that you can purchase with those raid tokens. Items for sale would include the: Helm, Gloves, Chest, Boots, Ghost, and Cloak. With this system, it would take 3 weeks of raiding to acquire all 6 armor pieces. All raid tokens and raid items purchased with tokens are bind-on-pickup, meaning they can't be transferred in the vault to your 2nd and 3rd hunters. If you want to roll with 3 hunters, you can take the time to gear them all up. Weapons are still transferable as they are all RNG raid drops as they are currently. To take it one step further and really give the players what they want, take the RNG right out of armor perks too by having 3 sets of every armor piece available, each with different Int/Disc/Str rolls, +Ammo bonuses, and so on. Why limit us to all having to purchase the exact same items with those tokens? If one player wants Int/Disc with sniper ammo on a chest piece, but another wants Int/Str with shotgun ammo, why not let them make that decision? It also encourages players to farm multiple gear sets for back-ups! If you're all geared up and don't need your raid tokens anymore, where's the incentive to raid at all? Well, still the RNG of weapons and other items, and raid tokens can be cashed in at the raid vendor in exchange for Legendary Marks! [u][b]The Conclusion[/b][/u] First of all, thanks for reading and I commend you if you managed to get through all of it! As the game stands right now, [u]the RNG of gearing up is just too frustrating.[/u] Not only do we have to hope we get any loot at all from the raid, we have to hope it has good stats, perks, high light, and isn't a duplicate. It's going to go down in Destiny history as another loot system failure that really bummed players out. I personally would like to see the proposed raid system come into play, so be sure to bump if you like the idea and maybe someone up top might take notice! Thanks, and happy hunting, Guardians!

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  • I honestly haven't even done a single raid yet, because of a lack of a Fireteam, and me NOT wanting to play with just any random person, so I don't know about the raid gear issues. But I feel you for the weapons and gear drops. I like to patrol Oryx ship a lot, and other areas as well, and when your doing hours and hours worth of patrols and whooping some serious ass all around (low level enemies, majors, and ultras), especially in the Court of Oryx, the loot drops tend to be a lot of garbage. By that, I mean duplicates and shit gear and/or weapons. Shit weapons don't bother me as bad, because I can always use weapons parts, but crap gear and duplicates get on my nerves, because I have armor materials up the yin-yang. Your system sounds pretty good, but regardless, there just NEEDS to be hundreds, if not thousands of weapons to choose from. That would GUARANTEE people having different weapons and gear, that are just as powerful as the most sought after/popular crap, or even more powerful and no one knows it, because they won't give it the time of day. Like everyone wanting Ghallahorn, but this time, there being a bunch of other weapons that are like it or better, that NOONE ever really knows about, but some few who dare to be different and say, "-blam!- Ghallahorn!!!! I want something different that's just as good or better!!" It would be a hell of a lot more fun to go loot hunting then, that's for damn sure. ^_^ What do you think??

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  • Real struggle: In WoW trying to get Shadowfire Gauntlets to drop from one raid boss, then roll against anyone else in the 40 man raid team that wants them. That's the struggle, the current system is nothing.

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    • I liked etheric light, you could get them in multiple ways, the only thing I'd change about your idea is I'd have it were you would get a token for going flawless in trials. I personally like to have multiple weapon loadouts, and with weapon parts being limited the new infusion system seems to be a problem

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      • I like

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      • It's funny, Prison of Elder did this with Armor Core, they listened and they did this, BUT PEOPLE STILL COMPLAINED.

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        • Bumpidy bump

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        • Bump

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        • This, do this, I want to be here for ten years but disappointment week after week is killing me

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        • Coming from someone who raided for years and years with said token drops for gear, 3 weeks of raiding to acquire all gear is to quick in my opinion. If said token system was implemented then each piece of gear would have a set value ranking from least desired(lowest token amount) to most desired (highest cost i.e. helm or chest in most cases). Each boss leading up to the main encounter would drop X amount of tokens with the accompanying chance of weapons, shards, engrams and etc. The end boss would drop X amount more. In the case of Kings Fall lets use some hypothetical numbers with 10 being Max amount that can drop: 1. Totem Chest - 1 token 2. Warpriest and Golgoroth - 5 tokens 3. Sisters - 7 tokens 4. Oryx - 10 tokens This would equal 21 tokens for a clear. Let's say we set the armor costs at the following: 1. Arms - 5 tokens 2. Legs - 10 3. Chest - 20 4. Helm - 25 Now with learning new encounters you may get that first boss down only but you know if you do then...awesome hey I get gloves when i get to the tower.... YAY. IF you get two the first week YAY i can get gloves and have a surplus when we down the next raid. Or if your gear is sufficient you can horde your marks and save till you can get the piece you want. The scenarios can go on and on but the point being you don't gear to quickly and become bored and it requires some planning on your part. And to keep the surprise factor in there so it doesn't feel like just mark farming raiders would have chances for class items, ghosts, weapons, shaders, ships and etc from each boss depending on loot tables. This is just my opinion of course.

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          • Moldering Shards should be used to buy raid gear.

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          • Maybe just make moldering shards a currency for gear instead of a chance to get gear

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          • This game is designed for you to play as much as possible. The more traffic the better for Bungie. Really that simple. RNG loot system = stuck having to grind for perfect gear. Fixed loot system = massive drop off from server traffic after you do the content once or twice.

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            • They should have hired you instead of Cozmo.

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            • seems like a better system than the one we have at the moment.

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            • Yep bungie is manipulating the loot drop. Got nothing but shards this week. Oh and boots gotta love how last year all I needed was boots.

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            • hump me like

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              1 Reply
              • I agree with this. I fell victim to having 3 29 characters in vanilla destiny and I raided every week. My friends quit and called me crazy for sticking around, and in a sense they are right. Destiny desperately needs a way for the player to feel like they are working towards guaranteed sweet loot. The quest system was a step in the right direction. Token system should work like this : Each boss should have a specific token drop. Let's say golgoroth always drops a shoulder token. In the tower you can turn it in for a garanteed shoulder piece at a higher level. I don't want 310 right out of the gate tho. But after raiding each week since launch why am I getting pieces lower than what I am wearing?!?!?

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              • What I can't understand is this: some like to raid, some like pvp (ToO) and some simply just like doing it alone, enjoying encounters and casual teamups but still the mmo feel and so forth. Shared world was what sold me destinys great endeavor. But in order to get the best gear and so on I HAVE to raid or pvp. I understand I can't get the ToO weapons or the raid armors if I don't do them. Im saying it would be nice to have some sort strike exclusive armor weapon(wich there is) that drop over 300. I love iron banner but I hate ToO and raiding. I just wish there would be another way so that the raid or ToO armors and weapons aren't the only thing to get u to 310 (to be 320-330)

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                • Very nice i like it. I support this!

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                • Shaxx: "I can't believe what i'm seeing !!"

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                • I like the idea of raid tokens... But I don't think you should really be able to get ALL of the raid armor in essentially 3 clears too... Maybe the raid vendor should just be selling one or two armor pieces a week, like lord salad hands or varriks?

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                • I like it, but I also like being able to infuse whatever legendaries I want, so I can look how I want. As long as I can dump raid armor I don't like into legendary armor I do like, this would be just about right for destiny.

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                • This is amazing! Bump! [spoiler]Because of that though, Bungie won't implement it *sigh*[/spoiler]

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                • Bump

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                • This beith ye ole holy grail of thine destiny if implemented.

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                • Makes a lot more sense

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