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7/4/2009 12:22:48 PM
250
Why Halo 3's Legendary Planet is NOT Reach/Onyx/Marathon
Hi all,
So this place has seen enough of these ridiculous theories being thrown around like animal droppings. Here's my take on the whole thing and beware of a wall of text.
[quote] [/quote]
I'd like to begin by saying that the rear section of the Dawn, containing John & Cortana, DID manage to make it through the Portal. Listen to the lines!
[i]"I'm not sure. When Halo fired, it shook itself to pieces. Did a number on the Ark. The Portal couldn't sustain itself. We made it through just as it collapsed."[/i]
If they didn't make it through the Portal, then they would be dead...Simply put...
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[b]Why Halo 3's Legendary Planet is NOT Reach:[/b]
Let us begin by talking about the suns... Reach has a single crimson star which is seen on the left side of the planet during the trailer. The Legendary Planet's is clearly artificial in nature and what's more...It's blue!
Which brings me to my next point...
[i]Glassing[/i], or [i]Cleansing[/i], is a method used by the Covenant on defeated planets. It tears away at the surface and burns the atmosphere. The surface then becomes a mineral called [b]lechatelierite[/b] which is very similar to glass.
The planet we see at the end of Halo 3 is clearly metallic, not glass and to further this we don't even see any trace of the Epsilon Eridani around. Where as, in the Reach trailer, it is clearly visible.
[url=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/1/1d/Planet.jpg]Image of Legendary Planet[/url]
[url=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/9/9f/Reach_glassed.png]Reach being Glassed[/url]
Reach, in the trailer, does a full turn. So we see the whole of the planet really, on half is Glassed whilst the other is still fine.
The Legendary Planet shows no traces of such landscape and there is no visible Marathon Symbol in the trailer either.
That's Reach done...
[b]Why Halo 3's Legendary Planet is NOT Onyx:[/b]
During the events of Halo: Ghosts of Onyx, it is made clear that the planet shell itself is destroyed by Kurt who detonates the FENRIS warheads.
The shell broke apart and the planet revealed itself to be trillions of Sentinels, they left behind a Micro Dyson Sphere housing:
-Doctor Halsey
-Mendez
-Blue Team
-Team Katana
-Team Saber
When Onyx was obliterated, there was a Slipspace Field around which isn't seen during the Legendary Ending sequence.
Also, I believe I am correct in saying that the whole place exists in Slipspace anyway. When the rear section of the Dawn is seen it is clear that the surroundings are not in Slipspace.
Onyx's location is in the Zeta Doradus System which houses many uninhabitable words very close to Onyx. [url=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/8/80/Onyx.jpg]Here[/url] is a clear picture of a very large planet behind Onyx which isn't present at all during the LE sequence.
So it can't really be Onyx...
[b]Why Halo 3's Legendary Planet is NOT related to Marathon:[/b]
Many people seem to think that the events of Marathon tie in with the Halo timeline somehow. That John and Cortana are now in a different universe.
Not true...
The planet in question is thought to be Tau Ceti IV, [url=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/2/29/Bungie_Marathon_poster225p.jpg]here's[/url] the picture of Tau Ceti IV and there is NO resemblence what-so-ever!
Halo's universe and Marathon's universe contradict each other in many ways:
- The UESC Marathon left Sol in 2472 and arrived at Tau Ceti in 2773, but by 2552, in the Halo Universe, the UNSC already had a presence in the Tau Ceti system and a large number of other worlds, while in Marathon, it was the first planet to be colonized by Humans.
- Marathon's protagonist was in cryo for over 300 years and was born on Mars. John was born on Eridanus II and was born in the year 2511.
-The Pfhor in Marathon are said to be the first aliens ever encountered by Humanity. In the Halo universe it is the Covenant races.
In addition, Bungie have always said the two universes would never collide. So we're not gonna be seeing Marathon in Halo...Any time soon...
[b]My take:[/b]
[i]"Atonement.
And so here at the end of my life, I do once again betray a former master. The path ahead is fraught with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - keep you safe. I'm not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly balances billions.
But I would have my masters know that I have changed.
And you shall be my example."[/i] - Mendicant Bias
This message is seen in the final Terminal in Halo 3 on Legendary. It details Mendicant Bias hoping for redemption for his past sins and wants to keep John safe.
As we know, Bias is the one who is responcible for a number of events in Halo. He joined the Gravemind and betrayed the Forerunners, he commanded the Flood offensive and killed billions of Forerunners etc etc.
Now he realises the folly of his ways and wants to prove to his Masters that he's changed.
The Didact, a Forerunner, states that he wishes to: [i]"Follow in Their footsteps."[/i]
"Their" obviously means the Precursors, the only race ever to reach Technology Tier 0 on the scale. The Precursors were Trans-sentient beings who mysteriously disappeared and passed down the Mantle to the Forerunners.
Now with the Didact vanishing after the initial activation, similar to John's fate, perhaps he found the [i]Precursor Rainbow World[/i]. And when Bias held the Portal open long enough for the rear section of the Dawn to make it through, perhaps he sent them to the Didact's final destination as to prove his atonement.
[quote] [/quote]
This is all just theory and explanation, that's all we have to go on. Perhaps this is just the cliff-hanger to keep us wondering of events to come that can never be.
However, many people aren't backing up theories with solid evidence so I set out to prove my theory.
Thanks for reading.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude The planet shows a large continent sized Forerunner glyph that is present on every single Forerunner installation visited through the 3 games. It might be Precursor but there is no reason to think this as the glyph is not visible in any Precursor ruins on Delta Halo. I don't think its Reach, Onyx or Marathon. I think its simply to show the player that there is more to the Forerunner legacy besides the Halos and Ark. i.e. There is more crazy Forerunner stuff to come.[/quote] The temples on Delta Halo aren't Precursor.[/quote] Yeah those temple are Forerunner. Each Halo Installation, for all we know, has different designs to it. I mean if the Forerunners built the Halo's how could a Precursor temple end up on it?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude The planet shows a large continent sized Forerunner glyph that is present on every single Forerunner installation visited through the 3 games. It might be Precursor but there is no reason to think this as the glyph is not visible in any Precursor ruins on Delta Halo. I don't think its Reach, Onyx or Marathon. I think its simply to show the player that there is more to the Forerunner legacy besides the Halos and Ark. i.e. There is more crazy Forerunner stuff to come.[/quote] The temples on Delta Halo aren't Precursor.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xSpartan 062 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude The planet shows a large continent sized Forerunner glyph that is present on every single Forerunner installation visited through the 3 games. It might be Precursor but there is no reason to think this as the glyph is not visible in any Precursor ruins on Delta Halo. I don't think its Reach, Onyx or Marathon. I think its simply to show the player that there is more to the Forerunner legacy besides the Halos and Ark. i.e. There is more crazy Forerunner stuff to come.[/quote] Good theory and there is no facts to prove otherwise. However what do you think of the possibility that the planet is the foundry from the Ark?[/quote] I must admit when I first saw the ending I thought the ship was drifting to the Foundry. We know that 04-2 detonated but we aren't sure if it produced the Halo pulse or just exploded and wiped out the Flood so its possible I suppose. The more I think about it though the less likely I think it is. The foundry planet was in bad shape and the forerunner planet seems to be intact and active.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] flamedude The planet shows a large continent sized Forerunner glyph that is present on every single Forerunner installation visited through the 3 games. It might be Precursor but there is no reason to think this as the glyph is not visible in any Precursor ruins on Delta Halo. I don't think its Reach, Onyx or Marathon. I think its simply to show the player that there is more to the Forerunner legacy besides the Halos and Ark. i.e. There is more crazy Forerunner stuff to come.[/quote] Good theory and there is no facts to prove otherwise. However what do you think of the possibility that the planet is the foundry from the Ark?
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@ xSpartan 062 I couldn't agree more. (^_^)d [Edited on 07.07.2009 4:26 AM PDT]
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The planet shows a large continent sized Forerunner glyph that is present on every single Forerunner installation visited through the 3 games. It might be Precursor but there is no reason to think this as the glyph is not visible in any Precursor ruins on Delta Halo. I don't think its Reach, Onyx or Marathon. I think its simply to show the player that there is more to the Forerunner legacy besides the Halos and Ark. i.e. There is more crazy Forerunner stuff to come.
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@ the real Janaka To further your analysis, if I may, I had a theory regarding Onyx backed up with proof. In my theory I stated that Onyx broke apart into trillions of sentinels (which it did), thus destroying the crust, bodies of water, flora and fauna and any life on the planet, which some may consider to be the end of Onyx seeing as how the planet broke apart and was no longer a whole planetoid. However based on everything we have seen with forerunner A.I they are all dedicated to a programed job or task. It was with that knowledge that I stated that the sentinels would probably convert back into planet form once they deemed the surrounding space around Onyx safe. Which lead to the possibility that Onyx could be the mystery planet in the Legendary ending.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tri125 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka @ tri125 Im not saying that the planet in the Legendary ending is Onyx, but please, Onyx did not explode. Prove me wrong by quoting exact lines that say so. [/quote] First, I didn't quoted you (I did quote the author of the thread) and second: everybody know that Onyx did blow up, what is remaining behind it's not called a planet but a dyson sphere (withing slipspace I believe?) I did saw a structural problem within my first sentence. I actually mean: "I don't agree, not that I do believe it's Onyx, but I think it's possible that it's Onyx.[/quote]What do you mean "everybody know that Onyx did blow up" thats an -sorry to have to say this- extremly stupid thing to say. Do you believe it yourself? Was that what you thought when you read it/heard it? Or is it something you read on Wikipedia/Halopedia? Ive had this discussion with some of my friends, who've all heard it (audiobook) and none of us can see why people believe that the installation was destroyed. That is if the audiobook contains the same info as the book. But just to be sure, what do you mean with Onyx? Do you mean the surface, the crust, or do you mean the actual installation, the one which consists of trillions of sentinels, "The drones were the planet Onyx". Well, most of it anyway, there are after all some other Forerunner structures, vast cities and rooms of impressive size, the portal room for example. The same room where Kurt detonated two fenris class warheads, which intentionally destroyed the portal to the interior of the MDS. Which in its turn triggered the trillions of drones to clear the area of everything that could be considered a threat to the shield world. By using "combined drone fire" they first blasted their way through the planets crust, then they started targeting objects further away, covenant ships, a moon etc. Thats pretty much what happened, so unless you quote me the exact lines which say that the planet was destroyed, as in "The Death star explodes", breaks apart, [insert random synonyms for something being destroyed], then I wont budge, not even the slightest. The so called Micro Dyson Sphere does not exist within the normal space, it is contained within a, about one meter large slipstream bubble in the exact center of planetiod called Onyx. Which again was not destroyed. The Micro Dyson Spere is also far larger then Onyx, it is by far the largest Forerunner installation so far, it even contains its own sun. But this you already know. To be overly clear, I'll yet again post one of my other explenations, one I wrote earlyer: [quote]Btw, why do poeple continuously repeat that Onyx was destroyed/suddenly broke up into trillions of sentinels? As far as I know Onyx was buildt up by trillions of sentinels from the begining, and as for it exploding, it only says that the planets surface exploded, removing layers of rock and metal. It did so because of the sentinels combined firepower. Not a single sentence about the planetoid being destroyed. You mustn't forget that the story at this point is told from the UNCS prowler Dusk's perspective. A ship that was hiding from the Covenant armada behind Onyx's "silver" moon, and all their info from what was happening on Onyx came from their "Black Widow" satelites which triangulated images around the moon. But when the sentinels beams hit the moon they were destroyed, so the the Dawn "dumpheated everything" into the reactor and got the hell out of there before the [b]moon[/b] (!) exploded. The portal in the "light room" however, was destroyed. Note: Im not saying that Onyx is the "thing" in the Legendary ending. [/quote] Hope I didnt appear to be too aggresive :P
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Yeah but the cracks only cover about half the planet, in the legendary ending we only see about 1/3 of the planet and it is really dark.
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It's a nice idea about the Foundry but I'm not 100% convinced. The Ark's artificial sun is completely different and is seen to look like a flying apparatus in the last level. The Foundry has extrememly visible cracks, openings and tears on the surface. [url=http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/5/5e/6957944-Full.jpg]Here's[/url] the picture close up.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xSpartan 062 If you scroll up the page and read the very long post I have given, it details evidence, although not hard evidence, as to whether the mystery planet is the foundry from the Ark. Personally I'm still not too convinced if I believe it is that planet or not, but I do believe it is an option. I wish someone would give hard evidence to prove one way or the other.[/quote] Cool, I also made a theory abou the foundry of the Ark :D Also, to help your theory: About the part "We all saw Masterchief into Space" Well, maybe the explosion destroyed the Ark Meteological system and so...the light was turned off. Ok, yes this is stupid but as far as I know the installations always had artificial lights! [Edited on 07.06.2009 2:25 PM PDT]
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If you scroll up the page and read the very long post I have given, it details evidence, although not hard evidence, as to whether the mystery planet is the foundry from the Ark. Personally I'm still not too convinced if I believe it is that planet or not, but I do believe it is an option. I wish someone would give hard evidence to prove one way or the other.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dathomsta [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xSpartan 062 Exactly that's my point. But we must ask ourselves why there was a Flood in the bible? Because man grew too sinful and in the case of Halo the Forerunners grew too powerful and like the gravemind said they paid for their sins. Well the Flood returned to combat humans and the covenant when disturbed and the gravemind said that humans must pay because the sins of the father passes to the son. Well what if the Precursors made the flood using their advanced technology and that is the reason they were no longer in the universe at the time of the forerunners? [/quote] It is a biblical reference. The [i]Flood[/i] spreads like flowing water, extremely fast, and the last quote leads me to think that the addition to time is his eventual return. As it takes ages for a Gravemind to form by sustaining sufficient biomass. The last 6 words make me think that the Precursors DID create the Flood. He said it to be a sentence he never deserved but [i]you[/i] would impose. Humanity is transcended from the Precursor line from the Forerunner. Also, the Precursors had the ability to create and shape life, perhaps they created the Flood as an experiment. So, in short: I assume John is imposing defeat on his ancestors' own creation. [Edited on 07.06.2009 2:12 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheEndIsNear NL [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tri125 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka @ tri125 Im not saying that the planet in the Legendary ending is Onyx, but please, Onyx did not explode. Prove me wrong by quoting exact lines that say so. [/quote] First, I didn't quoted you and second: everybody know that Onyx did blow up, what is remaining behind it's not called a planet but a dyson sphere (withing slipspace I believe?)[/quote]There's a portal, leading to the sphere. The sphere itself is bigger than Onyx ever was. [/quote] Thanks.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tri125 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka @ tri125 Im not saying that the planet in the Legendary ending is Onyx, but please, Onyx did not explode. Prove me wrong by quoting exact lines that say so. [/quote] First, I didn't quoted you and second: everybody know that Onyx did blow up, what is remaining behind it's not called a planet but a dyson sphere (withing slipspace I believe?)[/quote]There's a portal, leading to the sphere. The sphere itself is bigger than Onyx ever was.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] the real Janaka @ tri125 Im not saying that the planet in the Legendary ending is Onyx, but please, Onyx did not explode. Prove me wrong by quoting exact lines that say so. [/quote] First, I didn't quoted you (I did quote the author of the thread) and second: everybody know that Onyx did blow up, what is remaining behind it's not called a planet but a dyson sphere (withing slipspace I believe?) I did saw a structural problem within my first sentence. I actually mean: "I don't agree, not that I do believe it's Onyx, but I think it's possible that it's Onyx. [Edited on 07.06.2009 2:07 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xSpartan 062 Alright I know how unreliable Halopedia is, but I have found some "facts" to support the theory that the mystery planet is in fact the "foundry" or the "core" planet on the ark. (The planet seen on the Ark). To begin with this theory, it starts as Forward unto Dawn dove head first into the portal. The Portal closed as the first half made it through the portal thus severing the ship into two halves. One half had the Arbiter on board thus sending him to Earth while the other half had both the Master Chief and Cortana inside. Now some of you may be wondering, "But wait, wouldn't Installation 04 Mark II destroy the Master Chief?" The answer to this can be explained through multiple scenarios. The first is that the Halo ring simply could not manage to fire. The proof behind this is the fact that it was not completed and was not ready to handle a firing sequence, even 343 Guilty Spark says that it isn't ready to fire. Thus it collapsed into itself and landed on the Ark causing major damage which is why Cortana said, "It did a number on the Ark". Now lets say that the Halo ring did in fact fire and did major damage on the Ark and ended up destroying the new Halo Installation 04. People would ask, "Well I know that had to have enough power to destroy the second half of Forward unto Dawn". Well yes the power would be enough to destroy the small craft but there are ways the Chief could have survived. The first way he could have survived if the Installation 04 Mark II did fire would be first off amazing Luck. Perhaps the explosion jettisoned him into Space and after all the explosions gravity simply brought his craft back towards the Foundry. The second scenario is that the Forerunner A.I, Mendicant Bias, having seen only half the ship made it through the portal put up a defense barrier around the craft similar to the shield that protected the Prophet of Truth before the UNSC and the rogue Covenant Elites broke through and killed him. This would also support theorists that say Mendicant Bias had a role to play even though he didn't know whether or not the Master Chief was on board that half or not. The last possible scenario that I can come up with if the new Installation did fire and that the Foundry's gravity pulled in the Master Chief's half of Forward Unto Dawn and either it's magnetic field or (via Halopedia), its "barrier shield which can be raised to protect both the Core and the Foundry" protected the Master Chief from possible death. Now lets get to the Halo 3 Legendary Final Cutscene. In the cutscene we only see half (if that) of the unknown planet, some clouds and a bright blue light. As for the half of the planet we see there are hardly any indication that it can or cannot be the core of the Ark because aside from the far away angle we see the planetoid from, it could look like the same planet as the Legendary ending for all we know. All we know is that it is missing a few chunks which were used to create the new Halo Installation. As for the blue light there are several blue lights when looking at the Ark from the level Halo (start the second rally point and get to where the worthog is and look up). If close enough to the Ark the blue lights could be the ones in the Legendary ending. Finally people may ask "Well what about the fact that we see the ship floating in space?" Well that can be explained by the fact that there was heavy damage to the Ark so it's possible that entire arms of the Ark were destroyed, or maybe even the whole ark was destroyed leaving only the core planet. Also the Ark, for all we know, is floating in space without any other nearby objects which explains the emptiness in the Legendary ending. This is all speculation but what do you all think? [/quote] I believe that. =]
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This is what cortana said. We made it through just as it collapsed, or most of us anyway. She said most of us. That may not be exact but it was something like that. They are still on the ark side of the portal.
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Alright I know how unreliable Halopedia is, but I have found some "facts" to support the theory that the mystery planet is in fact the "foundry" or the "core" planet on the ark. (The planet seen on the Ark). To begin with this theory, it starts as Forward unto Dawn dove head first into the portal. The Portal closed as the first half made it through the portal thus severing the ship into two halves. One half had the Arbiter on board thus sending him to Earth while the other half had both the Master Chief and Cortana inside. Now some of you may be wondering, "But wait, wouldn't Installation 04 Mark II destroy the Master Chief?" The answer to this can be explained through multiple scenarios. The first is that the Halo ring simply could not manage to fire. The proof behind this is the fact that it was not completed and was not ready to handle a firing sequence, even 343 Guilty Spark says that it isn't ready to fire. Thus it collapsed into itself and landed on the Ark causing major damage which is why Cortana said, "It did a number on the Ark". Now lets say that the Halo ring did in fact fire and did major damage on the Ark and ended up destroying the new Halo Installation 04. People would ask, "Well I know that had to have enough power to destroy the second half of Forward unto Dawn". Well yes the power would be enough to destroy the small craft but there are ways the Chief could have survived. The first way he could have survived if the Installation 04 Mark II did fire would be first off amazing Luck. Perhaps the explosion jettisoned him into Space and after all the explosions gravity simply brought his craft back towards the Foundry. The second scenario is that the Forerunner A.I, Mendicant Bias, having seen only half the ship made it through the portal put up a defense barrier around the craft similar to the shield that protected the Prophet of Truth before the UNSC and the rogue Covenant Elites broke through and killed him. This would also support theorists that say Mendicant Bias had a role to play even though he didn't know whether or not the Master Chief was on board that half or not. The last possible scenario that I can come up with if the new Installation did fire and that the Foundry's gravity pulled in the Master Chief's half of Forward Unto Dawn and either it's magnetic field or (via Halopedia), its "barrier shield which can be raised to protect both the Core and the Foundry" protected the Master Chief from possible death. Now lets get to the Halo 3 Legendary Final Cutscene. In the cutscene we only see half (if that) of the unknown planet, some clouds and a bright blue light. As for the half of the planet we see there are hardly any indication that it can or cannot be the core of the Ark because aside from the far away angle we see the planetoid from, it could look like the same planet as the Legendary ending for all we know. All we know is that it is missing a few chunks which were used to create the new Halo Installation. As for the blue light there are several blue lights when looking at the Ark from the level Halo (start the second rally point and get to where the worthog is and look up). If close enough to the Ark the blue lights could be the ones in the Legendary ending. Finally people may ask "Well what about the fact that we see the ship floating in space?" Well that can be explained by the fact that there was heavy damage to the Ark so it's possible that entire arms of the Ark were destroyed, or maybe even the whole ark was destroyed leaving only the core planet. Also the Ark, for all we know, is floating in space without any other nearby objects which explains the emptiness in the Legendary ending. This is all speculation but what do you all think?
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going back to my point about forerunners might be still in one of the shield worlds some of them must have lived for humans to have evolved so there might still be around, no one has ever stated how long a forerunner can live for and I dont know but mabye chief was sent there to find them or somthing important to the forerunners
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tktomma I still think its Onyx. I'm pretty sure in Ghosts of Onyx, it stated that the "New Onyx" was a safe haven for the Reclaimer, or something along those lines. Master Chief detonated Halo, maybe Halo knows that. I don't remember it saying that it existed within slipspace either.[/quote] Hate to burst your bubble, but Bungie have said they will strive to keep the books an extension of the game, and not have the games an extension of the book. So unless Bungie make a whole thing of introducing Onyx and saying what happened and why there are other Spartans an what the hell a Spartan III is, then it ain't gonna happen.[/quote] Thankyou, whats your take on all this? I'm interested to know.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tktomma I still think its Onyx. I'm pretty sure in Ghosts of Onyx, it stated that the "New Onyx" was a safe haven for the Reclaimer, or something along those lines. Master Chief detonated Halo, maybe Halo knows that. I don't remember it saying that it existed within slipspace either.[/quote] Hate to burst your bubble, but Bungie have said they will strive to keep the books an extension of the game, and not have the games an extension of the book. So unless Bungie make a whole thing of introducing Onyx and saying what happened and why there are other Spartans an what the hell a Spartan III is, then it ain't gonna happen.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tktomma I still think its Onyx. I'm pretty sure in Ghosts of Onyx, it stated that the "New Onyx" was a safe haven for the Reclaimer, or something along those lines. Master Chief detonated Halo, maybe Halo knows that. I don't remember it saying that it existed within slipspace either.[/quote] WTF do you read the posts, we are on a completely different topic and we've clearly stated that it's unlikely to be Onyx. READ THE DAMN POSTS!! [Edited on 07.06.2009 10:17 AM PDT]
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I still think its Onyx. I'm pretty sure in Ghosts of Onyx, it stated that the "New Onyx" was a safe haven for the Reclaimer, or something along those lines. Master Chief detonated Halo, maybe Halo knows that. I don't remember it saying that it existed within slipspace either.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BOOTH0913 you have hardly any evidence at all all you have is bad pictures PS: I mean terrible picture's[/quote] But you have no evidence to support that the Forunners or Precursors created the Flood, and if they did, why did they make it parasitic?
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you have hardly any evidence at all all you have is bad pictures PS: I mean terrible picture's
