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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Comptonburger: 9/28/2015 8:07:31 PM
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Bungievision, DeeJ, and Locked Content Hypocrisy

Prior to The Dark Below, [url=http://in.ign.com/m/destiny/71601/news/bungie-details-new-raid-fixes-and-exotics-in-new-d]DeeJ stated[/url] that players who chose not to "opt in" on the expansion would not be left behind. [quote]As the developer prepares for the rollout of expansion The Dark Below on December 9, Destiny community manager DeeJ took time to detail many of the upcoming changes, assuring players that "those who don’t opt in aren’t left behind."[/quote] Indeed, throughout The Dark Below and House of Wolves, players who did not purchase both of the expansions still had access to the full level cap, vendor gear, and all the activities that were released in vanilla Destiny, such as the Weekly Heroic and Nightfall, so long as they were not on new content that week. Now Bungie and DeeJ specifically have done a complete about-face and [url=http://imgur.com/rQ4BKWH]gone back on their word[/url]. [quote]If you don't buy the expansions you get left behind simple as that...[/quote] Players who have not purchased The Taken King are now locked out of countless activities that we paid for, and other content has been removed altogether. This includes: - Daily heroic - Weekly heroic - Weekly nightfall - Story missions with heroic modifier - Strike playlists above level 20 - Mode specific PVP playlists - Faction/vendor gear - Iron Banner - Trials of Osiris - Eris Morn bounties - Wolf bounties This sets an extremely bad precedent for Destiny. Bungievision has sold us access to content in the form of discs and downloads but wants to pretend that they sold us a subscription, where they can lock us out of the content that we paid for unless we continue to fork over cash. Many of us spent $100 or more and are left with a shell of a game now. There is no reason for the locking of many of these activities. PVP has normalized gear values and so it doesn't matter if you are 34 or 40, and yet they have still locked us out of numerous modes. Only one strike playlist is available now at level 20, far less than what was available before and well below the non TTK level cap of 34, making it boring and pointless. Speaking as a programmer, I can tell you that it would be all too easy to make most of this available to non TTK players, even Trials of Osiris and Iron Banner - World of Warcraft has had PVP tiers for ages. But Bungievision's clear goal is to force players to purchase their TTK expansion. I was on the fence about it but their decision to extort us resolved me not to. They set expectations that this content would remain available. They advertised this content. And then they removed it. For these reasons I personally have gotten refunds, and will not be playing again as long as Bungievision decides to leave us behind. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Addressing common responses: [spoiler][quote]From a networking perspective, Bungie can't just "make separate endgame content for non-TTK owners" because it requires new severs to be built and the servers flow and control and maintenance would be incredibly expensive and time-consuming as compared to just having all servers upgraded to the newest content available.[/quote]Continuing to allow non-TTK players access to this content at the non-TTK level 34 cap does not require new servers. All content in Destiny is already instanced at different levels and offers different rewards. Strikes are a simple example. The same concept is easily applied to Weekly Heroics and Nightfalls, and even Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris. Furthermore, this doesn't even pertain to a lot of the content that has been locked. Gear and levels are normalized in regular PVP so there is no reason to remove playlists from non-TTK players. There is also no reason to remove heroic mode for story missions. [quote]It's unfair for you to expect to continue to use Bungie servers for free and get new content for free.[/quote]This is not about getting new content for free, it's about not being locked out of content we did pay for. Also, operating servers is not as expensive as you think, and other games are often just a one time payment that give you access to online play for years. [quote]The daily, weekly, and nightfall always leveled up with every DLC. In HoW, if you bought none of the expansions, you were still locked out of the nightfall since it was level 32 and you were only 30. They were advertised as end game content and is still end game content.[/quote]Wrong. Prior to now, everybody had access to the full level cap, and you were only locked out of the heroic and nightfall if it happened to be on content you hadn't purchased that week. The excuse that they are end game content is irrelevant; they advertised and sold this content, and if they choose to separate us by level cap then they need to make these activities available at different level caps as well. They are not selling a subscription service. [quote]The only thing you have been locked out of is new endgame content like Nightfalls, Weeklies, Raid etc etc. That is not content that you bought that is a FEATURE of the game. A feature that centers around the latest content. When you bought TDB you bought the strikes, missions, gear etc etc and the Nightfall then took that content and featured it every week.[/quote]There is no difference between features and content. Trials of Osiris is just a mode using all of the same assets and maps as other PVP and yet it is obviously content. It was advertised and sold as one of the main two activities of House of Wolves. Now it is inaccessible unless you purchase The Taken King. That's unacceptable. It is the same with the Nightfall etc. With the previous DLCs all players had access to the level cap and vendor gear and any drops were still usable. Only with The Taken King has Bungie decided to segregate us by level cap. That doesn't give them the right to remove content that we paid for and they are obligated to leave it available at the level 34 cap as well. All activities in Destiny are already instanced at different levels and loot tables and this is an easy task. You are trying to invent a distinction that doesn't exist between features and content. Features are content. You haven't described any distinction. Even if there was a distinction these are features that they advertised and sold to us. [quote]Dude read your Eula. "Content subject to change". They owe you nothing. Read before you agree.[/quote]Doesn't give them the right to remove major pieces of content that were advertised and sold. That's called false advertising. They didn't sell me a subscription. By your logic they could just completely shut the game off and give us a black screen. The EULA allows it right? Do you really think that they would get away with that? No. Removing major pieces of content is essentially the same. And regardless I will argue against it as scummy business practice and advocate that people speak against it with their wallets as I have.[/spoiler] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Links to the FTC and the BBB, courtesy of [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/254/2436889]Hettar[/url]: [url]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/154354086/0/0[/url] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Video explanation (not my creation) [b](watch this! it's good!)[/b]: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_LE7HXLlDo&feature=youtu.be[/url]
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#Destiny

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  • I love the excuse "You don't own that content." It's pretty much like you buying a full $60 game, then a year later the developer strips all activities aside from one away from you. And those activities were ones that you were previously allowed to play. The simple solution is: Allow legendary marks through daily crucible, heroics, and weekly heroics(having different difficulties resulting in different amount of marks. Assuming these missions aren't TTK missions). Make nightfall playable to all, unless of course it's a TTK strike, just as they did in HoW and TDB. And finally they should have at least a level 34 legacy playlist, a 20 is kind of a slap in the face.

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    • I really wish bungie would just admit this is a subscription based game. They could say that instead of a monthly fee, the fee would be based on the content released. It would clear up a lot of confusion.

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      • As soon as TTK update released why has al the year one stats been destroyed eg strength, intellect etc ? There was absolutely no need to do that. The only reason I can think of is to generally f*ck you over and blackmail you into wanting the new dlc to get new armour

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      • Edited by Equinox Shift: 9/28/2015 9:09:31 PM
        Alright, I think I have an effective way to explain why you are not getting what you believe you should get. I will do my best to explain my thought process. When games are created, there are two variables that content is placed into: Static and Dynamic. Static Content is used to determine the price of the game. This content, no matter what happens, does not change for the user, regardless of expansions, downloadable content, etc. Each time something is released, it comes with its own static content. Here is a list of the static content I have compiled per Vanilla, DLC1.1(TDB) DLC1.2 (HOW), Expansion 1(TTK) Vanilla - Level Range 1 - 20 - Base Gear - Vanilla Story - Base Strikes - Base Locations - Base Endgame Content (Vault of Glass) - Base Grimoire - Three Classes - Two Sub Classes per Class The Dark Below (Vanilla DLC) - TDB Gear - TDB Story - TDB Strikes - TDB Locations - TDB Endgame Content (Crota's End) House of Wolves (Vanilla DLC) - HOW Gear - HOW Story - HOW Strikes - HOW Locations - HOW Endgame Content (Prison of Elders) - The Reef The Taken King (A Real Expansion) - Level Range 20 - 40 - TTK Gear - TTK Story - TTK Strikes - TTK Locations - TTK Endgame Content (King's Fall) - Expanded Grimoire - One New Sub Classes per Class Now, the above content, that is what you pay for, and get to keep, when you purchase each aspect. As I recall, thus far, everything I listed above you indeed still have, provided you have each piece of DLC and Expansion. Now, Dynamic Content, is content which is ever changing, and is not used to calculate the price of the item being released. These items are therefore never "locked" to that release, and can be modified at free will as the game expands. This content includes: - PvP Content - Strike Features (Such as the playlists) - Nightfalls - Weekly and Daily Content - Bounties - Quests - Events - Light Level These belong to nobody, and always move forward per expansion, and sometimes DLC. These will never be provided to users who don't have the most up to date content and often this is what the majority of people are complaining about unjustly. I am sorry many of you feel left behind, but such is the development cycle of this game. You indeed did get what you paid for, and still continue to have access to it. Should you wish to obtain access to the Dynamic Content, the price is merely keeping your game up to date with the newest expansions and dlc. In addition, you do receive Static Content for these purchases that you do get to keep. Take care, and I hope this clarifies much for you. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them for you, if I can.

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        • Either buy the game and come join the rest of us or enjoy what's left of the game that we all knew was an online only always evolving massive multiplayer online game. I think with all of their changes to the game that they had no choice. Celebrate the Taken King and join us or get out of the forums. Jeez it seems like there are more butt hurt rebels who don't want the game and refuse to buy the Taken King and hate Destiny but yet they still get on the DESTINY forums and complain about DESTINY all day long. Go play Mario Maker or something.

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          • Filthy Casual

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            • Taken King is quite good you should try it

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              • Sorry dude, but you have everything you paid for. Its literally as simple as that

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                • Edited by Sturm with no Drang: 9/28/2015 8:11:43 PM
                  Well, there's one thing I never caught onto: I had already planned on purchasing the Leg edition, but prior to that I never heard anything about stuff like strikes and nightfall getting cut out. I like the game where it's good so I can't complain on design or mechanics, but I will, however, frown upon the idea that non-TTK players won't have the means to play at said cut-content. When I started out back in May I couldn't purchase any of the cool gear that Variks sold or get a chance to fight Crota, but I could, at the very least, fight against The Blades on Public Events and fight against the Wolves for ether chests. Now that TTK has been released there is the Taken invasions that spice up patrols, but most players who are stuck at lvl 34 will have it harder [b][i][u]AND[/u][/i][/b] will have to shy away from dailies, strikes and such-not that give out the decent rewards that were once given. On top of that, there's also the Crucible and we all know that about *50% of all Destiny players will be unhappy one way or another. [spoiler]*Not an actual estimated value. Please consult Bungie Department of Destiny Statistics and Bungie.net Unofficial Salt Forums for accurate data.[/spoiler]

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                • $7 a month. That is all Destiny costs... Half of you blow more than that of lattes every day.

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                  • If you did not buy TTK, they should not allow you to post on the forums either as your opinions are completely irrelevant now.

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                  • Dude read your Eula. "Content subject to change". They owe you nothing. Read before you agree.

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                    • Yawn. Muted whiny OP

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                    • You get what you pay for, would you want them handing out all this content to the kids who didn't buy it?

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                      • Nightfall, weekly heroic strikes, queen's wrath bounties, etc. Are all endgame features, not content. Content would be the base strikes, base pvp maps, and base story missions, they're all things that have no modifiers attached to them. What you're complaining about is what are known as features. Endgame versions of the content that you already have access to. If you do not have access to the gear, levels, etc. that would allow you to reach the endgame, why would you think in a million years that you'd even be able to compete in these endgame features? You HAD access to them before because the new gear dropped with the older content (for whatever reason). Now you can only get the new weapons, armor, etc from the new content and therefore, there's no reason for someone without to even use it.

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                        • To play devil's advocate players that didn't purchase past dlc still could only hit the level cap through iron banner. Which essentially locked them out anyway

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                          • You get what you pay for

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                          • - Daily heroic - Weekly heroic - Weekly nightfall - Story missions with heroic modifier - Strike playlists above level 20 - Mode specific PVP playlists - Faction/vendor gear - Iron Banner - Trials of Osiris - Eris Morn bounties - Wolf bounties You still have access to your strikes and story missions. First 5 points are invalid. PvP playlists were reduced so that non-TTK players could enjoy all modes without certain playlists experiencing insufficient populations (Salvage for example). Vendor gear was never advertised as part of the game. Iron Banner and Trials always used the latest maps. Don't own the latest maps and light levels? That's your fault. In the past, Bungie was kind enough to grant those things to you. They changed their mind. Deal with it. Nobody has Eris Morn bounties anymore. Wolves are gone for everybody just like Blades of Crota. You have your story missions, your strikes, raids, prison, etc. You got a free quest screen UI update and vault space upgrades. I wish Bungie sold the vault upgrades to non-TTK owners for $5 lols.

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                            • I bought the TTK yesterday, but that still doesn't hold the fact that bungie took content away that was in the main game. Then you have all these ignorant people in the forums...smdh. Never in my life have I seen this many ignorant people. I might be ignorant myself, but at least I see the big picture.

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                              • "Throughout The Dark Below and House of Wolves." He didn't say anything about TTK.

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                              • All this bickering nonsense won't solve anything. The day you bought the game and installed it, you agreed that Bungie can change, modify and/or completely remove features and content at their own discretion without even giving you so much as a heads up. You can argue about how wrong it is and what not, but in reality, you agreed to terms and conditions. Legally speaking, you never owned the content and you never will.

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                              • Yes, I accept the end user agreement. No, I didn't read it.

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                              • They didn't do anything different then they did with the last two dlcs. Remember how you couldn't play the nightfall if it was the dark below dlc and you didn't have it? Well now all the nightfalls and heroics are new strikes that come with the dlc remember how you couldn't play the new dlc crucible maps but you could play the old ones? You still can except now the main crucible is all dlc maps the new level cap is part of the dlc the daily missions are all part of the dlc and if they aren't they are still level forty which is the new dlc level cap every other game does it this way.

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                              • Edited by BootKnacks: 9/22/2015 5:24:10 PM
                                Well here is a wall of text i didn't read I bought TTk. If you didn't buy ttk, it is none of my concern what happened to your ability to play this game. Call me rude, call me mean, call me an @sshole, whatever, it doesn't bother me one bit. You decided not to purchase TTK. Why should i care that people who haven't bought it are getting left behind? It has no impact on me and my ability to play the game that i spent money on.

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                                • The thing is, lets say there was no expansion, This begs the question, would you still be playing the game, Id wager no, you would be bored and have moved on, If you buy the game today, you get a deal on all content. Do you all still play rage?, how bought tomb raider? Thats right for the most part you do not, you have moved on or play expansions,At least be realistic, many of you are bitching just to bitch.

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                                  • Anyone who disagrees with this post has probably paid for ttk and their comments are therefore irrelevant, I have paid for TTK and I am pleased with the new content but as this gamer clearly states it is ruining the experience for non ttk owners, personally I believe that since you purchased Destiny year 1 you should have access to all that year one had to offer, I'll put it this way.. Imagine you bought any other game ever made and you played the content till the end game then the creators made a dlc for said game but in order to continue playing the game you purchased you had to buy the dlc and if you didn't they locked you out of the original game... Doesn't seem right does it?

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