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8/28/2015 1:48:59 AM
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The writing was on the wall from the minute Bungie began detailing these widespread changes. Either they continue to support vanilla (along with TDB and HoW, which are really no better than vanilla now) on the dime of DLC buyers, or they shut out year one players altogether.
There's no winning here; either the DLC buyers or those content with the base game will be shafted. DLC buyers become disillusioned seeing the tiny amount of content they're actually buying OR base game owners are completely turned off from the franchise as their purchase is ripped away.
Bungie needs to seriously reconsider their update model.
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Honestly, with all this and how they are working it they should've just made this a monthly subscription fee game. That's how it feels like now anyways.
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Because all MMOs are "subscription games". The only difference is how that expenditure is CAMOUFLAGED. The maintenance of a game like this costs money...and that money has to come from somewhere. ...and NO, it isn't covered in your initial purchase price. ...and NO, there is no such thing as a "Free to Play" game. YOU might not be shelling out the cash to pay for the games' upkeep...but SOMEONE else has been shelling it out to COVER that cost for you. Last year, it was DLC buyers shelling out that cost on behalf of the non-buyers.
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Does Bungie pay you to speak on their behalf, or is it just something you love doing?
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[quote]Because all MMOs are "subscription games". The only difference is how that expenditure is CAMOUFLAGED.[/quote]This is false.
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You do realize server costs are next to nothing to maintain, right? Especially when we're not playing on dedicated servers? =P Yeah, that goes hand in hand with the network architecture not supporting an MMO build. We're not actually playing on their system, they just handle the network communication between consoles. The players are the network host for both PvE and PvP. Even a novice could figure that out. And no, there is a huge difference between Subscription Fees, Buy to Play and Free to Play business models. Get your facts straight, please.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 8/28/2015 12:41:54 PMServers aren't the only form that overhead expenses take. The differences are cosmetic. They simply distribute the costs different amongst the pool of customers. Get your economics straight.
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You're the one who brought up the point of server expenses, all I did was shoot it down. But if you think you know more than someone who actually does have professional experience dealing with all this, please by all means do feel free to enlighten us. What ARE all the various expenses in which you speak?
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Man-hours of labor for software development, coding, and debugging. Including salary and benefits. Lost productivity in activities/ products that can be more directly monetized. IOW things that can be sold rather than provided at no direct cost to the consumer. Marketing costs. Distribution costs. Acquisition, operating, and maintenance costs for the servers that are used to facilitate game play. Bungie's use of P2P connections was a key move in keeping this overhead low, and allowing them to monetize the game through a DLC model---and it's unpredictable revenue stream---as opposed to charging a sub fee or having to go with numerous micro transactions. I'm sure that you can provide a more detailed accounting, but these are the basic expenses one would anticipate in a situation like this.
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I have no problem paying people for there work and i dont mind paying a premium for quality products. Destiny is not a premium product and the have sold lies, gone back on what they have promised and continue to release contradicting statements.
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In terms of budgeting, everything else you have listed all factors into development cost which for Destiny was averaged to about $140 million for the vanilla base game. As a contracted developer having their game funded by another company, i.e. Activision, the publisher manages and handles the cost of development and operation including public servers and their upkeep. Activision actually owns their own server network which Destiny works off of which is used to handle the peer-to-peer communication between consoles and pushed updates. In other words, everything is already included in the price tag for the game. There is no need for a subscription fee.
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However, last time I checked the goal of any business is to make a profit, not to simply break even.
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First week of Destiny's launch all development costs were immediately made back in sales, and then some. They made plenty of profit. There's a difference between looking to make a profit and being greedy.
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....and the cost for retooling the company, tripling its size and developing all new tools and game engine in-house? All while Bungie had no product on the shelves??
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Edited by Malphisto: 8/29/2015 1:31:46 AMYes, those things are all factored into development cost which is included in the price tag of the game that you already paid for. Bungie was being funded by Activision, the publisher. Activision said that they had invested $500 Million into Bungie/Destiny while Bungie claims $140 Million was put to game development. The amount of funding they received from Activision went towards employee salaries, food/drink, utility bills, their brand new studio headquarters, new equipment, computers, servers, licensing, manufacturing and distribution, etc. Everything you're talking about was already paid to them, at no point in time did they ever have to struggle financially and the money you spend isn't going to them at all but to Activision. Bungie is actually sitting pretty right now. Major income bonuses aside, everyone who works for them is living the good life. Like I said, you're rather wrong about what you are talking about with regards to all this. No offense intended. Also Bungie did have a product on the shelves called Halo: Reach which they were still receiving royalties from.
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I thought Microsoft retained all the property rights to Halo....
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They own Halo in the same way Activision owns Destiny, basically. Bungie had decided to take up a development contract with Activision who was basically throwing money at them. Said contract was drawn up prior to the launch of Halo: Reach and Microsoft established 343 Industries to takeover the Halo franchise afterwards so as to keep the series going. However, the royalties (a percentage of the profit) was going to Bungie, though.
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I see. The articles I read on the breakup failed to mention that little detail....
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Yeah, no. Bungie went this direction because they were promised oodles and oodles of money, bro. Like I said, they are sitting real pretty with fat pockets. They are friggen LOADED now. Hence why all the anger from the community concerning the greedy business practices. Its literally just SQUEEZING every bit of cash that they can from the player base. And its a combination of Bungie and Activision, too. Activision has to approve any and all changes/decisions made for the game. Its basically Activision just using the Bungie brand to advertise.
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Sorry but dude you need to stop cutting this stupid MMO call. Destiny is NOT an MMO. It is Not an RPG ir is simple as a Co op FPS. Seriously how hard is this for you to understand this reality. Destiny jjust targets to take couple idas from other game types. From MMO they took grind idea , nothing further. From RPG they just took character perk idea , nothing more. All the rest of Destiny is screaming i am CO OP FPS but you are still calling it MMO/ I seriously wonder how old are you because the sheer stupidity coming from you can only be explained that you are around 12-13 years old..
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http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/architecture/library/ar-powerup1/ [quote]The Halo and Counter-Strike series of games are examples of basic multiplayer online games (MOGs). Even an online game of Yahoo! chess can be considered an MOG. However, these examples are not MMO games because they lack an integrated, persistent gaming world.[/quote] Becasuse I should just believe you....and not one of the largestt information technology companies in HISTORY...and whose business it is to help compainies like Bungie DESIGN and SUPPORT these kinds of games. The only person around here who is acting like a child...is you. I'm bringing fact and field expertise to this discussion. Youv'e got nothing but unsupported assertion and personal insults.
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How about you trust the opinion of an actual developer instead? I'm an Indie Dev with plenty of years under my belt. Fairly certain I have a firm grasp on what I'm talking about. Just saying.
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You should just believe the developer of the game Bungie. They clearly stated this game is not an MMO ... Grow up...
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That is correct. They call it a "shared world shooter" an attempt at combing the two.
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Exact description for Co-op FPS :)
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I think it's closer to an MMO than a co-op fps but not by much. I'm hoping it gets closer with The Taken King.
