[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lemon Slice This TOPIC MUST DIE!!! My thoughts have changed. I don't emphasize it's a rip-off anymore although I still believe alot of ideas are similar between the two games. Again, no intention was to say that h2 was crap - I never said anything like that, it was just a story based discussion. Now, I've said all that needed to be said and frankly I think it's about time this topic died.[/quote] Wow...takes a big person "on-line" to admit that their thoughts were changed...I'm impressed Lemon Slice. Anyhow, interesting thread, I probably would have jumped in if I read this post earlier... But again...thanks for your honesty at the end, it's noted. Fox

So the main thing is that.. The races and some of the storyline are alike... But.. what about the rest? and Lemon you DO have a nice theory, I was thinking that Halo was alot like SC too.. Unti I read the books.

Lemon.. You are right,but.. Halo 2 is not all about the Flood, and Covenant. SC seems to be all based on and about the "Xel Naga" and "Protoss" True halo 2 does go on about the "Flood" and "Forerunners" and " Covenant" but... That's not All of Halo 2, that part of Halo 2 is extremely similar to SC. But what about the Human part in halo 2. What about the Halo's? What about the Spartans? What about the History of the Humans? The Fall of Reach? You may think ITS ONLY THE HUMANS! Whata about all the other races.. Well all the halo books and games. Seem to have alot more story about the humans. It is more human biased, because the humans have the biggest part in the storyline. In my opinion NOW. I think that the majority of Halo 2's storyline, is not a ripoff. But the other 30% is...

Everyone's been using this same basic outline, StarCraft had a lot of influence (I think) from the Aliens vs Predator universe. Aliens / Zerg / Flood Predators / Protoss / Covenant Humans / Humans / Humans Space Jockeys / Xel'Naga / Forerunners

Interesting theory, but quite you really have no substantial proof behind it. All of your points are minor and insignificant. You honestly have no real connections between the stories and some of the characters. So they both use the word Zealot and Arbitor, or so what if they have 4 different races. That really doesn't make HALO 2 ripped off from SC at all, it is almost impossible to find something in today's world that you can claim to be truely original. Also as other people have said, get your facts straight before you try to make an argument like this again. All of the different Conenant's homelands weren't invaded and destroyed by the flood. Only High Charity, IIRC.

actually i think htis is sort of a hobby, but give him a break hes right, but whatever its kool they are both great games and if you enjoy starcraft and halo then you should join my group [url=http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/62693/Group/GroupHome.aspx]StarCraft VS Halo[/url] so there, have fun

"you need a hobby"

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lemon Slice However, don't tell me that both games having almost equivalent races is JUST A MINOR SIMILARITY and that both having "zealots" with gold aromor and energy blades IS JUST A COINCIDENCE. well the elites blade is not energy it is plasma i know u will say they are the same lossers are so pridictable [Edited on 4/11/2005]

i got bored halfway through and just replied to waste your time........Halo isn't that close to ENDERS GAME.........-_- And all games stole from HP LOVECRAFT HAHAHAHAH [Edited on 4/11/2005]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lemon Slice Stupid double post! Bungie, fix your servers![/quote]Please...

to all you people out there - especially the retard who said 'you might as well say halo rips off GTA because you can hijack vehicles, or a sniper coz it has grenades...' etc (find the post if you wanna read the rest of that laughable stuff) slice isnt talking about petty details like that, hes talking about fairly major similarities! obviously not the entire storyline - theres no ringworld in SC that will wipe out all life, and theres no genetically enhanced super soldiers encased in uber-armour who are the last hope of mankind (thats in marathon;) ) but things like there are fairly major correspondances between things like the races, some of the less important events, even some of the characters are quite similar. hes already told us he no longer thinks halo is ripping SC, just that there are similarities. hes already told us he thinks halo is a great game and has never said anything to the contrary. hes already even freakin told us to stop his own friggin argument because he didnt intend to start a jihad of the faithful to halo 2, he was just trying to provoke some thoughtful and interesting discussion! can all you idiot fanatics out there please just stop saying that theres no way bungie in any way copied starcraft, and that there are no similarities at all, because there so blatantly ARE! accept it! and on the other side, can all you other guys on slices side please just realise that there is a difference between ripping something off and putting in subtle tributes to it! its like in films - there are cross references all over the shop there, but its not ripping it off, its a tribute to a worthy creation. slice i know that you dont hold this view particularly, this is mainly for the others on your side, and perhaps to pre-emptively stop any SC fanatics p.s. slice, i know you said you didnt plan on buying any other blizzard games, but i can definately recommend the warcraft games - buying 1+2 may be a little tedious coz theyre so old, but theryre definately worth it coz they rock, and you get a much better understanding of the story. however, warcraft 3 and frozen throne are unbelievably awesome, and world of warcraft is incredible.

So basically the theory your making there is the humans of the past are the Forerunners? It sounds a bit like the Legends of the Mayan. Bungie's play on the disappearence of the Maya? Possibly.

The words they use from SC, specifically MJOLNIR, are words that have been used thousands of times in other storys. MJOLNIR is the name of the hammer of the Norse god Thor. So if you wanna get technical, SC ripped off mythology. You have way too much time on your hands. As for the forerunners, if you look at the things 343 Guilty Spark says, the game is hinting that "forerunners" is not another race, but the human race from ancient times. Thats why 343 calls us reclaimers.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lemon Slice Is it me or is Halo 2's story a rip off of Starcraft's? Anyone who has played Starcraft and its expansion Brood War should make a serious analysis of starcraft's story and halo2's story. Over several weeks now, I've found too many similarities with the story and the races between both to just say that it is a coincidence. Let's get to the meat of it shall we? In Starcraft we have four races: Terrans (humans), Protoss, the Zerg and an extinct super advanced race known as the Xel'Naga. In Halo2 we have four races also: humans, Covenant, Flood and an extinct super advanced race known as the Forerunners. Fair enough you say. But what makes it so similar? Read on. Protoss = Covenant: In SC, the Protoss are a highly advanced alien race with psionic powers. Their units are by far the most powerful in the entire game. They were created by the super race the XelNaga and they also have managed to reprocess the remaining Xel'Naga technology. Not only that, they are also highly religious and a species that prides itself on its "indestructible" might. IN HALO, the covenant are highly advanced alien race that has some unknown link to the Forerunners and have also managed to reprocess remaining Forerunner technology (as seen when the forerunner ship takes off from High Charity). That AND they are highly religious beleiving the humans to be an afront to their gods. IRONICALLY ENOUGH, the Protoss all have shields and have a unit called a ZEALOT that has golden armor and, get this, has two blades on either hand which it uses to melee attack foes (Gold Elites anyone?). In HALO, we've got got gold Elites called ZEALOTS (seen in "Uprising" where the blue Elite says to the Gold Elite: "Stealthy entry, zealot?") that have got energy blades! Call me stupid if that's not too similar then. Next ZERG = FLOOD: The Zerg are a parasitic, biological race that has consumed and assimilated dozens of different species all over the galaxy to become the zerg. As an army, they rely on lots of little units to overwhelm foes rather super strong units like the protoss. Just like the protoss, the were created by the Xel'Naga. In HALO, the Flood are almost exactly identical to the Zerg and they've got some link to the forerunners (if the forerunners created them I'm gonna laugh). They're called the Flood because they just keep on coming, just like the Zerg. To make things even more suspicious, the Zerg are lead by an entity known as the OVERMIND whereas in HALO, the Flood are lead by the GRAVEMIND. Next XEL'NAGA = FORERUNNERS: Both are super advanced races that are extinct and left behind very powerful technology. The Xel'Naga created the Zerg, humans and the Protoss and also left behind the all powerful Uraj and Khalis crystals which Artanis and Zeratul used to purge the Zerg off the Dark Templar planet. IN H2, the forerunners had a strong link to the Covenant since the Covenant had reprocessed so much of their technology and even have some link to the Flood because they studied them. Not only that, they left behind the all powerful HALOS to destroy all life in the galaxy. Not just the races, but the storyline is also strangely similar. Read on. IN SC, the Protoss homeworld is invaded and destroyed by the Zerg. IN H2, the Covenant homeworld is invaded and destroyed by the Flood. IN SC, even as the Conclave (leaders of the protoss) is being overrun by the Zerg, the Protoss express arrogance and continue to think they cannot be defeated (as seen when Tassadar states, 'in the face of annihilation, they continue to hold onto their failing traditions'. IN H2, the Covenant homeworld is overrun and even as its being destroyed, you can here the Prophet of Truth bablbling on about 'no enemy has ever withstood our might' in "High Charity". IN SC, Tassadar and his Templar are betrayed by the Conclave and the Conclave sets out to destroy him and his allies. IN H2, The Elites are betrayed by the prophets and the Brutes. No explanation needed here. Arbiter, zealot and scarab are all terms used in Starcraft. Lastly Protoss in Greek means 'first' - obviously a reference to their superior power. In Halo, you've got the Elites which they're caled that cause they're so good. <-- NEWS FLASH UPDATE --> There's still deniers out there - well try denying this. In the Starcraft manual and history of the game, there is a picture of an SC colonial marine with the words "MJOLNER" on his armor. Ring any bells from something you've heard in Halo? I bet it does. Oh and here are a few more little details to consider: Tassadar was a hero. The Arbiter was a hero. Tassadar was disgraced and branded as a heretic. Arbiter was disgraced and branded as a heretic. Tassadar was put on trial for his "heresy" and his heresy was knowing the truth about the Zerg. Arbiter was put on trial for his "heresy" (failing to protect halo) and, again, knowing the truth about halo was heresy (seen in the last level's convo between Tartarus and the Arbiter.) Tassadar and his templar were betrayed by the Adjudicator caste and the Conclave. Arbiter and the Elites were betrayed by the Prophets and the Brutes. The Adjudicators were blind to the truth because of their overly zealous nature. The Brute leader Tartarus was blind to the truth because of his overly zealous nature. So now it's not just general ideas being ripped off, we have character and plot development being suspiciously the same. I wonder, was there a fan of SC in h2's development team? Anyone else see something fishy here? And remember, SC and BroodWar were out before the idea of the Xbox becoming a console was even thought about.[/quote] Both are good games. I think that you've been playing the Halo War of Races to much...Sure, there are similiarites in the units, and the [i]original[/i] storyline, butnot Brood War. In Brood War, the plot was to have an expedition sent from Earth to the renegade colonies of the Terran Dominion. There is no human expedition fleet, and there are no renegades left, let alone colonies. Earth is the last. Secondly, High Charity was never destroyed, it's just [i]about[/i] to be destroyed. Mjolnir is used in Greek Mythology, and while Halo has rip offs of SC, the novels of Halo focus more on Greek Mythology than on StarCraft. The government of the humans is the UED, and before that it was the UPL. For the humans, it's the UNSC. The Protoss aren't the strongest units in the game, stastically, yes, but that doesn't make them the strongest. The Terrans nuclear weapons made them a powerful adversary, and the Zergs numbers made up for their weak units. In StarCraft, they didn't have a mighty super weapon, they didn't have the Monitors, etc, etc. I'm sure for every game we can make out similiarites or borrowings; take Escape Velocity Nova for example, they seem to borrow heavily from Babylon 5. [Edited on 4/11/2005]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Elrando We've missed the fact here that bungie would have started making halo before Star craft was out (it was in developement for quite some time) and they wrote the story all in one go (it's called the halo bible) so how could they have copied starcraft?[/quote] This statment ( in my opinion) should have ended this topic. And Lemon Slice, why did you say "THIS TOPIC MUST DIE!" and continue to argue? Thaat kind of contradicts itself...

I've played both and you suck at comparing things. I could say Halo2 ripped off GTA because you can hijack vehicles. Or shoot out of your vehicle. Oh and they ripped off the sniper because you can use a scope. Oh and those grenades explode.

protoss is teh best race is sc humans sux zerg ok but pretty -blam!- havent played in a while only thing i like with zerg is that spike from the ground thingy

We've missed the fact here that bungie would have started making halo before Star craft was out (it was in developement for quite some time) and they wrote the story all in one go (it's called the halo bible) so how could they have copied starcraft?

Not sure if any one else noticed this cuz i didnt read the whole thread but i think the flood are more like those stupid aliens from half life 1. Those stupid little head crab thingies that sucker onto people and turn them into something which greatly resembles a combat form.

meh I seem to remember halo's story as a rip off of the ring world novel....and this one book that hand a parasitic race known as the vang...who looked almost exactly like the flood and mutated people like them......

This TOPIC MUST DIE!!! [quote]both biological? no -blam!-. assimilate other races? all parasitic life forms assimilate other life forms one way or another. both attack in large numbers? what race doesnt?[/quote] The only valid thing I saw here was "what race doesn't?" Remember why the Flood are called the flood, because the just keep coming, they spread and they devour anything that they find, just like a flood. The Zerg are very similar in that respect. Secondly, how many parasites have you seen that take over people's actions, minds and bodies. Heck, the common tick doesn't do that and that's a parasite. [quote]aggresive approach? of course there is aggression. the Covies arent a bunch of hippy aliens who are against violence.[/quote] There is war but there is also attitude to war and those two things are very fundamentally different. I was never meaning this in context of peace versus war but rather approach ot war. Both Protoss and Covenant (especially Elites) embrace combat seeing it as the proving ground for a true warrior. Howelse would gold elites exist given their rank is determined by the caualties the inflict? [quote]The Covies didnt kill the Forerunners. they couldnt have, because if the Forerunners werent dead, they wouldnt have their technology. all theyre doing is keeping any Forerunner tech they find, which makes the Covies different form the Protoss in this sense[/quote] That is a difference and I accept it but there's still so much that's similar between both races. The zerg/flood comparison still stands. I don't compare humans at all because they're cliched to much to bother drawing meaningful comparisons. ---------------------- [quote]some words like arbiter, scarab and zealot don't just refer to specific alien races or such. thay are universal terms. scarabs, for example, aren't only the huge walking tanks used by the covenant. Zealots aren't only golden, sword wielding warriors. Zealot means a religious fanatic.[/quote] I know what zealot means but your point is understood. I admit that was probably one of the weaker points of my arguement. ---------------------- [quote]same with halo and starcraft, i noticed it when i first played it (i was and still am a abid starcraft player) but, never bothered to post it because it went NOWHERE!![/quote] With the exception of fanboy flaming and some other stupid responses, I've actually seen this topic become a meaningful discussion for both sides on the origins of halo. At least it's better than some other topics on this forum. ---------------------- [quote]Starcraft is a -blam!- game any alot of people know it. C+C Generals owns it several times over. Starcraft wasnt anticipated for 3 years. You dont go to your friends house to play starcraft, you go to your friends house to play halo.[/quote] SC sold over 3 million copies on it's own, the extra franchise boosted that to 8 million. Plus it recieved a stackload of game awards. Not to mention the fact it's the most played game on the Battle.Net servers and the biggest multiplayer game in South Korea. And that's without multimillion dollar marketing campaigns being spent on it which is what microsoft did with h2. So don't be so quick to judge a game without knowing much about it. ---------------------- [quote]also the flood to our knowledge were not created by the forunner[/quote] I am not saying every detail was taken, otherwise I'm sure Blizzard would've contacted its lawyers by now. [quote]the zerg are in search of psyonic ablities, that is the reason they attack the colony of mar sara. That is also why kerrigan is so important to them, she is a very psyonicly developed human.[/quote] Firstly, Kerrigan was not on Mar Sara so the Zerg did not go there for her. Secondly, as Arcturus later points out, the Zerg were lured there by the psionic emanations of the PSI Emitters the confederacy had developed. They hoped to use this vulnerability of the Zerg as a weapon to destroy their foes with no uprising. Mara Sara was just a backwater world chosen to be weapons tested by the confederates. [quote]the only glaring similarity i ever swa was that they "Burned" worlds, to cleanse an infestation. The other one jim rayner and fenix(originally a zealot but dies and becomes a dragoon). so maybe fenix and rayner (arbiter and cheif respectivly) work together and are very good friends. but that is not enough to base your inane argument on.[/quote] Try checking the Arbiter/Tassadar similarities, make sure you count them. [quote]the xel'naga created the protoss but put them aside when they went astray. then they created the zerg from a larval insect on a certain planet. They wanted to create a perfect race, their "perfect " race tricked them and f'ed them up good.[/quote] The zerg weren't meant to be the perfect race, the protoss were but they fell short of Xel'Naga expectations despite the Protoss being more powerful than the Xel'Naga. They then developed the Zerg so that could combine the powers of the Zerg with the powers of the Protoss thus creating "the greatest of creation's children." Lastly, the Zerg did not destroy the Xel'Naga, the Protoss did. ---------------------------- My Thoughts: The topic was intended to generate thoughtful discussion about the similarities between both SC and h2. What instead happened was alot of people got angry and decided to set out and poke holes in my arguements and deny them as much they could. It was almost like waving a red flag in front of a bull - didn't realize the fanaticism that can occur these days. On a positive note, people with opposing viewpoints made many thoughtful points and for that I am glad. No debate is meant to be one sided and from those people I got to see what the others thought. My thoughts have changed. I don't emphasize it's a rip-off anymore although I still believe alot of ideas are similar between the two games. Again, no intention was to say that h2 was crap - I never said anything like that, it was just a story based discussion. Now, I've said all that needed to be said and frankly I think it's about time this topic died.

some words like arbiter, scarab and zealot don't just refer to specific alien races or such. thay are universal terms. scarabs, for example, aren't only the huge walking tanks used by the covenant. Zealots aren't only golden, sword wielding warriors. Zealot means a religious fanatic. The arbiter may be a cool character, but the word "arbiter" means "leader" or something like that

you could also draw parralelles between half-life and halo, but no one does because its utter nonsense, same with halo and starcraft, i noticed it when i first played it (i was and still am a abid starcraft player) but, never bothered to post it because it went NOWHERE!! also just because they have similarities doesnt mean they are copies, if you see something and like it (such as a video game story) and then attempt to make your own you can draw alot of parralleles, dont believe me? try playing halo 2, soaking in all its story, really paying attention then try making your own story for a game/book, it will sound alot like halo 2's another fun experiment (ive tryied this it works) is get a room full of people (about 10)and right yawn on a 5 sheets of paper, then pass the yawn papers and and 5 blank ones all at the same time, tell the group to read what it says on the paper but dont say it out loud , you will notice that about 2-3 people will yawn.. there i hope that this puts the issue to rest

[quote]I read all of that, and I believe that Bungie didnt copy Starcraft, well, I didnt, but now it makes me think. Awhile ago, I always compaired the races in Halo to the races is starcraft, and it made me think. Now I have the feeling Bungie is hiding something, they are so similar.[/quote] Did you forget to read everything between his first post and your post or something?