Continued from [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/140754145]part 7: Hawkmoon[/url] [b]The Last Word[/b] The last word is a very, very interesting weapon. Besides being completely and totally awesome, it is, oddly enough, simultaneously the easiest and the most difficult weapon to use in Destiny. Any noob can spam-cannon their way to kills in crucible, but it takes real skill to actually learn to manage the recoil and master the gun because when you fan fire it it kicks like a bull you just punched in the balls and poured hot sauce on its nuts. Furthermore, most guardians will tell you it is completely and totally useless outside of pvp. Personally, I love using the gun in pve, but have no taste for it in pvp due to the number of people noobing it up with it. In your mind, Bungie, you have this image of TLW being this close range machine gun that becomes totally useless outside of shotgun range, and you're upset that some of us have the skill and the sense to take aim at a target and fire precision shots instead of spamming the trigger. What we have here is another case of “you can play Destiny however you want to, as long as it's exactly how we want you to play it.” Bungie, you need to admit to yourselves that you no longer own Destiny; the community does (we definitely payed your greedy wallets for it). I have an experiment for you: up the range bar, but don't change the actual range stat. I guarantee people will be less pissed when they get killed outside of close quarters by TLW. Ok, I know you're not going to do that, since you want to make this gun fit your vision. Thing is, your vision kinda sounds like a glorified shotgun. While this is fine for pvp, as it will make the gun more reasonable to deal with, I'm concerned about pve. The gun is already widely considered useless in pve, you don't need to kick it while it's down. Changes: * Reduce Range stat to 10 (was 20), reduce Stability to 20 (was 30) – maybe with the incoming hand cannon damage falloff nerf this will fix the pvp problem, but I'm skeptical. I'm also concerned this is going to make the gun completely and totally useless in pve. Part of the thing with TLW is it does so much damage that its laughable range doesn't matter; all you have to do is realize that you can aim and fire it semi-automatically just like any other hand cannon. * Reduce effective range while in ADS – ok, so you're addressing the whole being able to aim the gun thing... this is ass backwards, but whatever, it'll work in pvp. Thing is, you may have just made it totally useless in pve. * Increase accuracy and precision damage aim assist scale when firing from the hip – now you're talking my language. This just might shift the gun so that it's no longer a noob cannon and becomes a really rewarding monster to master. Counterintuitively, this should also make the gun more effective in pve. While the gun will now require players to actually learn its difficult skill curve (which I'm all for as it'll lead to a more rewarding weapon), it will actually become more rewarding and viable in pve as you'll actually be able to string those hip-fired headshots on enemies with smaller crit spots. * Fixed bugs with Hipfire damage bonus applying incorrectly – kinda straight forward, although it really affects pve, which is where the gun is already weak, than pvp TLW's changes strike me as another case of you balancing things around pvp and forgetting about pve. I'm all for those nerfs in pvp, but I think they should be pvp only. Alternatively, the gun should receive a pve damage buff to its signature perk. There is one other question: will the magazine be nerfed? Given how fast you chew through those 8 bullet, my suggestion is no. If it has to be done, don't make it any lower than 7. TLW is another one of those exotics you nailed. It looks exotic, feels exotic, and when you get good with it you feel like a freaking badass space cowboy. And isn't that what Destiny's supposed to be all about? [b]Thorn[/b] Right now, Thorn is the single most contentious gun in crucible. Thing is, it really wasn't so long ago that Thorn was the bad joke at the end of the single most difficult bounty in the entire game. I love Thorn, I really do, but I never use it in pvp any more, and there are a lot of other more useful pve exotics. Thorn is another one of those exotics you nailed. Everything about the gun screams badass exotic. The gun is infamous, however, because it requires very little skill to use in pvp, is absurdly potent, and its DoT can result in some very cheap kills. Yes, it needs to be addressed, just tread carefully. Before Thorn came a long there was this little OP weapon called Suros Regime... Changes: * The base changes to Hand Cannons and weapon stats address Thorn's range – I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bungie, last time you nerfed an entire weapon class just to deal with one gun you made auto rifles totally useless. You'd do well to remember that. * Reduce base damage of Thorn's Mark of the Devourer DoT (Damage over Time) to roughly 1/3 of what it was in PVP and PVE – Man, you know what gun's so OP in pve there're groups that'll kick you if you don't have it? Thorn. Wait, that's not right. Yes, I'm all for the pvp nerf but if there's one thing Thorn doesn't need it's a pve nerf. * Allow DoT to stack up to 5x across multiple landed projectiles. This is a net buff for Thorn's DoT, but reduces the lethality of the weapon in PVP – I have been dying for this. Seriously. One of the things that's pissed me off the most about Thorn is it actually punishes you for being skilled with headshots. My only question is whether 5x might be too low for pve? Thorn and the Word of Crota are the same impact archetype (68), so I'm wondering whether this will be enough of a pve buff. On the whole, I'm really pretty happy about the changes coming to Thorn and I'm looking forward to dusting one of my favorites off the shelf. It sounds like the gun will simultaneously punish those who rely on it for cheap kills while rewarding those who can string headshots. As long as it doesn't turn back into Suros Banner and Trials of Suros, this should be a good thing for Destiny. [b]Fatebringer[/b] It's not an exotic, but it may as well be. While the only changes coming are the ones for all hand cannons, it's worth mentioning the effect they'll have on one of Destiny's most beloved guns. Fatebringer's in a pretty good place right now. Don't believe me? Just try running VoG hard mode confluxes, and try sniping coming the goblins coming from right conflux as soon as you see them during the first wave. It's doable to crit at that range, but it's not easy. Given Fatebringer's range of 40, I'd say that's reasonable. It's also worth noting that only Ill Will and Timur's Lash have higher base ranges. Fatebringer is perfect as is. Unless you want people to stop playing VoG, I'd suggest you don't screw with it. While field scout should cushion the mag nerf, those range/falloff nerfs might hit hard. Seeing as how long range headshots are going to be harder to pull off than ever, I'm at a loss as to why you're punishing those of us with the skill required to pull them off. Continued in [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/140784779]part 9: Shotguns[/url]