Your decision to reduce the damage from Wolfpack rounds in the interest of promoting inclusive behavior defies logic. Speaking as a day one Guardian, as a clan member, and a Gally owner (for half the year), I fail to see how weakening Gally achieves your goals of getting players to a) put it down in favor of a different weapon and b) being more understanding of non-Gally owning players.
First of all, you created this weapon to be a beast. To be a game changer (like Icebreaker). To be a sought after trophy that players want and work hard to try and get. What you did not anticipate, perhaps, is just how powerful a weapon it can be, just how much of a game changer. Nor did you anticipate that players would discriminate against others for not having it.
You also created the basis for this discrimination in the form of one boss above and beyond all others: Crota. Most experienced players know Atheon can be sniped much more effectively than rocketed to death. And Skolas is pain regardless of what you use. But it wasn't really until Crota and the need for massive DPS over a short period of time that you started seeing the requirements of "must have Gally or you're kicked".
So now you think that the problem is Gally and its Wolfpack rounds more specifically when clearly you have other choices and other problems before you:
1) You could have Xur sell the Gally and then everyone could have it and the discrimination would end over night. The problem you won't readily admit to is that the game would be broken from that point going forward and you would need to nerf Gally anyway because its beastly nature would make the game too easy or too predictable. And it would do nothing to foster the weapon use variety that you so love to chase... Everyone would have Gally in their heavy slot for PvE. Everyone would have fun, but it would be oh so boring and predictable. Not good for a 10 year project.
2) The bigger problem with Xur selling Gally isn't the subsequent nerf that would inevitably come: it's the fact that you know damn well that it is the hunt for Gally (and Hawkmoon) that keeps people playing Destiny week in and week out. Most day one players have all the guns they want or need, but if they lack the Gally they keep playing in the desperate hope of procuring that coveted trophy. If everyone suddenly has it, the drive is gone... and you don't have new content until September. And that won't do, now will it?
3) You have some players on LFG that discriminate. They want everyone to have a Gally, but they might settle for 2 or 3 for Vog or Crota (and 1 for PoE) leaving some room for non-Gally owners. What exactly do you think those discriminating individuals who rely on Gally are going to do if you weaken the weapon? They are going to do exactly what you expect and that is allow for absolutely no one without a Gally. Now those 1-3 slots that might have been open are going to be gone because the discriminators are going to feel like they need every precious Wolfpack round they can get their hands on.
4) What you need to recognize is that the vocal "Gally or kicked" crowd on LFG sites doesn't represent the entire community. They are the squeaky wheel. There are plenty of Guardians, myself included, who don't care what rocket launcher you have so long as you know how to use the weapons you've got. And of course I love to be surrounded by friends with Gally because it does make the game easier and sometimes that is a good thing. And here is why: It makes players like me far more inclined to help other players that don't have Gally. If you nerf Gally, people like me are more likely to think twice before committing to that extra raid or PoE to help a weaker friend. You will have achieved twice the opposite effect of what you want: the people that never or hardly never help, never will and the people that almost always will help, won't be so generous in the future.
What is interesting is that you don't mention by what percentage you're going to weaken the Wolfpack rounds... which is interesting because you give numbers for everything else. Why are you afraid to publish that number?
I would suggest an alternative solution to this non-existent Gally problem and its Wolfpack rounds... and that solution is more Wolfpack rounds, just not on Gally.
Make legendary rocket launchers that track, have Wolfpack rounds, and a small blast radius. And make them readily available for sale from Xur.
1) Tracking is terrifically helpful and everyone covets what Truth and Gally do. You won't miss Crota or Skolas so the discriminators can't cry.
2) Give them Wolfpack rounds, but fewer or less potent than Gally. Grouped together in a team of 3 or 6 they would be terrifying, but not game breaking the way Gally can be in those numbers. And again the discriminators can't complain.
3) Give them a small blast radius - make them a true high value or boss killer, not a room clearer.
4) By making them legendary, but awesome you will promote weapon variety across the board. If you give them different damage types and other perks they will be used and you will see less of Gally.
5) Day one players and everyone else would love Xur and have a use for all those strange coins we are accumulating.
6) And best of all: Gally can stay Gally. Special, coveted, and fricking awesome. Still driving players to seek it, hold it, and blast the living sh!t out of the darkness.
Please don't make this mistake. Please give us something good instead of taking away something great. It's a game - it's supposed to be fun for us.
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8 RepliesThe nerf is sound. Currently galley does roughly 8k worth of damage, that is burn modifier level damage. Over half of that comes from the wolf pack, the initial rocket does ~3500 - 4000. Even if they cut the damage of wolf pack in half, you are still dealing 6k worth of damage, so the nerf is not very drastic. Second, the purpose is to prevent massive boss slaying and remove a stupid reason to discriminate some. The message is very clear from Bungie. Community stop being asshats. Sure there is collateral damage, there is always collateral during a meta shift. It happens, just move on.
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Official Bungle Interview
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1 ReplyThe nerf isn't just because of player exclusion in endgame activities of those that don't have it. Look at the graph in the post. 25+% of players over the past week have had it equipped, with HoC at a distant 2nd around 10%. Then everything else at 1ish%. What they're trying to do is force players to not rely on a single weapon to get through tough fights. That's the whole point of balancing weapons.
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Edited by Bregnok: 7/17/2015 9:28:58 PMI have a tracking rocket one shot, and a tracking rocket 3 shot. I won't say they're boss burners, but the only time u really need to have them is crota and I've always gotten by fine. 1 rocket and switch to primary and keep shooting till crotas down.
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1 ReplyBungie wanted to alter xur to make him sell jelly horn, glitches him out, and now he isn't selling anything
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As a player who has never asked for gjallarhorn for anything, asks for bare minimum level requirements for almost every activity. I will now be going out of my way to exclude folks from my groups for having lesser gear and not having gally. Out of spite. And when messaged about it I'll tell them it's because of bungies business practices. I am starting to think elitists are the result of the way bungivision treats us.
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3 RepliesWhen I read about the changes I was only really taken back by the BH ammo pull. It sucks how this game,because of the players,could revolve around but 1 weapon so much,that people just openly become without shame,huge douchey buttholes. I can't say I know the struggle to want gjhallahorn,but to be picked up for raids or any PvE group activity based on your rocket launcher is embarrassing to me. Like just sitting there,being told your only here to aim an shoot and if you die,without getting us what we want, we're gonna hate on you until we do get it done cause we're not t gonna boot you until we're done or we find someone else with your rocket launcher you just so happen to have. Idk,it's just something that's always bugged me about the community,at least when it comes to my experience with it. I saw the nerf more as a opportunity to think and strategize more often in game,instead of waiting on ammo cooldowns and counting how many rockets I have have on my team. I've been on amazing teams where not one of us had to throw a single gjhallahorn shell to beat the activity and instead used other weapons because they made sense or just meshed with our game play style and even just to make it a bit more challenging (3 man crota normal with your worst exotic on hand at the time: Dregs promise,universal,and unupgraded hardlight and only use that weapon) I started to look at gjhallahorn as my,"ok..if I really need to bust it out," weapon cause of how much OTHER people wanted you to have it out. Like dude,I'm rescuing the homies, handling that vandal you don't seem to notice laying into your lid,mowing down adds,fighting to super the yellow bars so YOU can have your super too,throwing nades in all the right places but all that matters is that that dude that's died 12 times has ammo good to go on his gjhallahorn on this arc burn NF we just so happen to be running... If you know what I'm talkin bout,give me a hell yeah cause I hope I'm not the only one who feels this way. But augh,this guys got some good suggestions that sound like they could make the game more interesting,GG.
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I never discriminated against people without gally, it's nice to have a full fire team of gally but it's not needed to get the job done
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The answer to discrimination: matchmaking. Bungie refuses to have matchmaking but they're policing how groups form by themselves? This is really turning into a terrible company.
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6 RepliesDelete elitists Gjallarhorns plain and simple
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I'm in agreement. Nerfing gjallarhorn will not end elitism or make things more inclusive. Level elitists, hell even grimoire score elitism will continue. Gjallarhorn does not make people into jerks. They were likely jerks before destiny and will likely continue to be jerks.
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2 RepliesHunger of Crota. 3 rockets will knock down Crota, same as Gjallarhorn. Gjallarhorn needed a nerf, even a psychological one, so that people will pull their heads outta their asses and realize that Ghorn isn't needed
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(>'.')> <('.'<) (^'.'^) <('.')> ( '.')
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Agreed, their "logic" is baffling
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They could give a shit about GHORN people not playing with people without it. If they did they would have nerfed it long ago. It got nerfed because the idiots at bungie are scared we will GHORN our way thru the taken king in a day just like we did with all the other dlc.
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1 ReplyAs someone without Gjally, odds are I don't want to play with a team that demands that anyway.
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Edited by AcidRohnin: 7/17/2015 5:11:43 PMOr buff the other exotic heavies. There is a reason everyone covets the gally because it's miles above anything else. Making it weaker will still make people want it due to it still not havering any competitors. I want them to buff the dragons breath or thunderlord to make them on par with said gally. Add a small buff to all machine guns (will make people want to use them more) and add a modifier to thunderlord. "Fatigue," "Open-Wound," "Overcharge" some cool name like that. Basically it would cause a slight burn for 3-5 secs and would stack 15-30 times for every consecutive hit that lands from one belt. Best it doesn't work in PvP though. It'd make the thunderlord a more used weapon and would make it fun to use. Dragon breaths solar ball slowly tracks targets like axion grenades. Might make it OP but would be fun as hell to use and would look insanely funny/awesome if everyone in a fireteam had it. Probably shouldn't work in PvP either lol.
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Iron chalice for president ! Someone get this man a beer !!!!
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Bump!
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If you nerf my gally how am I going to carry everyone in raids?!!! On a serious note, it's a very needed change. My three gallys approve of the nerf.
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1 ReplyAll valid and true points, completely flushing out bungie's supposed reasoning. But the real reason behind these nerfs, I believe, is because bungie cornered themselves with gun development by creating original weapons that were just too good. Think about it, unless bungie created some ridiculously OP sniper with infinite ammo, or an exotic heavy that did more damage than ghorn, would you ever equip something in their place (for pve). Simple answer: No, and realizing this they decided that the only way to make newer guns in say TTK appealing, is to make the original go-to guns less so than they were. Do I agree with the logic? No, it's lazy logic, when instead they can come up with creative new ways to make more niche weapons with unique twists like BH did. More over it means that at least one of the affected guns is near useless (IB), BH still being somewhat useful, and Ghorn yet to be seen, which are all stupid and annoying to say the least...
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1 ReplyAfter playing from day one, I finally got a gjallahorn last week and I was pretty upset about this nerf. It is absolutely not needed. You can pick up some legendary launchers that track. Don't even get me started on black hammer..
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PREACH!
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Well said. 1000% agree and couldn't have said it better myself.
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I agree. I have no reason to grind for Gally or Ice Breaker anymore. The game is just another game, which I no longer feel compelled to play every day in search of the 'Holy Grails'. No more suffering through Crota's End or PoE; there is no reason, since they are not fun and the rewards are garbage. So if Bungie wanted me to start playing other games, they succeeded.
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My clan is based on not excluding people based on their lvl or gear. All are welcome to raid, and if anyone posts requesting specific lvls or weapons they are banned immediately.