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Edited by Chaos1123:
6/30/2015 4:51:33 PM
304
A skilled players thoughts about thorn.
Okay here it goes. Yes this is a rant/complaint about thorn. Your getting the input on a guy who is on ps4 who has been playing pvp since beta. Currently top 25 In the tracker on ps4. Here's the deal. Thorn. It's getting old, it really is. Going into a ToO match is a joke because literally every fireteam you face are all using thorn. This is a call out on good players. Really guys? For all you top 1,000 players using it. Your a joke. Thorn is a crutch weapon. The average Joes should be the only ones using it against skilled players like us. Skilled players shouldn't roll on crutchs because everyone else is using it period. I've never liked thorn and I never will. HAWKMOON. Anyway. Getting back to thorn. It needs to be nerfed already , it does.. A guy put together a based stat on teams who went flawless with Handcannons. 70% used thorn 22 % used last word, and only 8% used hawkmoon. Really destiny community? We're better then that. We are. Letting one gun rule them all is a joke. I suggest a very good way to smooth thorn out. I know alot of you thorn users are like "but tlw and hawkmoon 2 shot! Don't nerf thorn poison, it will be weak!" Here's a solid solution. Don't nerf the damage, don't nerf the poison. Keep it a 2 shot gun so it keeps up with TLW and Hawkmoon. Nerf the stability or the range. Make it a actual challenging gun to use. Instead of the typical 2 heads shots and run away tactic. Bungie get off your lazy arses and take notice to this already. You nerfed auto rifles because they were the most used weapons in the game for a certain period. Look at thorn. The past 3 weeks trails has been Thorns of Osiris. Fix it.
Before any of you tell me to get gud or call me a blink shotgun noob. Yes I do. I abuse my shotgun. Why? Because I have a better chance blink shotgunnin thorn users close/medium range then I do with hawkmoon. Thorns RoT and the poison overwhelm it sometimes. Don't get me wrong I outgun 80% of thorn users but that's usually when it's a 50 meter + gun fight. I just shouldn't burn out after I outgun thorn users.
Okay here comes the thorn defenders! Let the hate flow.
Edit 1
Okay I see alot of feelings hurt and people crying cause I made the post and they say I'm whining. I don't speak for myself I speak for alot of the community aswell. Don't think this is just another guy complaining about a weapon he died to. I rarely die to it. I'm speaking out for all the players aswell who have a hard time defending themselves against thorners.
Edit 2.
For alot or you guys who can't read aswell. This isn't a cry about 1v1 thorn users. It's about their not being any diversity in the community anymore. So much toxic aswell from you top players in destiny. It's sad
Edit 3.
Wow we're trending 600 replies! Hit that like button and leave a comment. Bump it so bungie actually truly see's this as a problem.!
Edit 4.
And no this is not a ego Booster. I'm not trying to build up my legacy or polish my sweaty forehead. This was just a post letting the community know there are highly skilled players out there who don't use thorn and do know that it is ridiculous. I salute all you non thorn users. Keep it up!
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-blam!- thorn, stranger's rifle outguns that shit if you have strafing skills.
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I much prefer TLW, Hawkmoon, The Messenger, and Matador. Haven't touched my Thorn in ages. Plus that TLW/Matador combo OWNS Thorn users at close range
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/134338609/0/0
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I think your completely right I've been saying to my mates it needs a nerf done to the range and the stability. In all honesty I will use the thorn if the opposing team is all using thorn because if you can't beat them join them. I believe assault rifles do need some kind of buff, I don't think any weapon type needs a complete nerf they really need to sort the thorn out.
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Edited by Erijian: 6/28/2015 10:48:17 PMPersonally I think it needs a pretty large Stability nerf, maybe up to the Stability it previously had before they buffed it. Back then you could spray as hard as you can now with it only if you ran Perfect Balance, but if you did that you didn't have the Range to snipe players with it. Though..Unrelated to the topic, I think Handcannons in general need a sharper damage drop off at distances above Medium range.
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Thorn is amazing, because its ridiculous. It doesnt take much to get kills with it but it does give you an upper hand. I dont think its damage or burn needs nerf, i would say maybe stability or fire rate needs to be nerfed, i love using thorn against good teams, but i like the messenger more, also pretty powerful gun as well
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If you shotgun blink you can't say anything, sorry
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It is called an advantage. If you were to play the lottery and was given guaranteed the first 2 numbers of the possible winning ticket, would you not take that advantage?
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12 RepliesEdited by TeddyBundy: 6/28/2015 9:09:37 AMWhy Thorn is OP: - It's the fastest 100% reliable two shot killer. TLW and Hawkmoon aren't a two shot in 10/10 times and generally all other twoshot guns have a severe disadvantage at long or close range and/or RoF. - It's also the fastest 100% reliable three shot killer when you don't hit a single crit. - The high range combined with the fast RoF and the ability to two shot makes it the perfect killer at any range. - It has he highest Aim Assist of all HC's, what makes headshots and the general use of the gun really easy. - It holds the shield down for at least 5seconds. - It enables Tracking through walls. - It enables Wallhacking combined with an AP sniper. - It -blam!-s up the enemies visor making it way harder to react and aim properly. - It's projectiles can hurt multiple enemies at once. - It's the only weapon with literally no real downsides. It's the best allrounder by far. Of course it can be outgunned. TLW is better at close range, a good scout or pulse is better at long range...but it's still very good at both ranges. Feel free to expand and repost this list so everyone can see the facts why Thorn is the best weapon availiable for PvP. I love this gun...but my common sense says that it obviously need a nerf. My suggestions to make PvP a bit more balanced: - Make it so the DoT of Thorn cannot kill you. It's a curse, not a poison. So it should lower the health to 1HP instead...it's good enough that it lowers the health/shield and holds it down for a good amount of time forcing the opponent to back out. - Nerf the accuracy and range on ANY Handcannon. The damage should fall off at long ranges. They're little guns with a short barrel, so it's retarded that a HC can compete with a Scoutrifle. - Nerf the ability of Hawkmoon to stack bullets for a one shot. It shouldn't be a one shot. - Rebuild the exotic perk of TLW so there is no 111/113 crit shot when ADS. - Give the Health Refill of Red Death a cooldown of 5 or 10 seconds or rebuild it so that there is just a chance of refilling like the suros one. - Rebuff AR's and give them at least 70% but not 100% of their pre-nerf damage back. - Replace Shot Package on every Shotgun with another perk to lower the chance of a one hit kill at maximum range. - Replace Last Round on every Sniper with another perk. No weapon should kill you with a shot in the toe. - Give Blink a cooldown after every jump, not after two jumps. - Remove Spheres from PvP. The Super should only load up through kills or the perks of certain weapons/gearparts.
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Hear me out: With the hawkmoon, you can easily run for cover and regen health (unlike thorn which really lengthens the amount of time before regen. With the last word, you can run and attack during reload because it empties ammo hella fast and you approach it from long range since most average players can't snipe with it. Thorn has better handling and is more accurate than the last word and negates quick health regen so getting double teamed is very lethal when you can't regen. My personal fix is that I feel that the burn effect stops after another enemy fires on you. So the two shot kill potential is still there but you aren't as easily double teamed especially 2+ thorns is always lethal as hell.
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Agreed. I use thorn. Why? Easy, because everyone I play against seems to use it and I'm not good enough to beat someone with the best gun for pvp by using other strategies and such. It takes out all variety and options for players that are not really good at the game. When that happens, you know there needs to be some rebalancing.
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I am a Thorn user and maybe the solution of the two shots will be fine
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B-b-b-but I just got Thron please no nerf now I did that crazy hard bounty as a Hunter. Lol np but seriously Thorn is a crutch weapon in competitive modes just like to an extent having a Gjallahorm is in PVE. However Thorns overuse is worse because it's player vs player. I have yet to use my Thorn in PVP but have faced countless people with it, seems as if every crucible team I face has at least 2 Thorns. I'm also someone who doesn't die to it much but it is frustrating coming so close to killing someone knowing you have more skill and having to retreat in the face of those players because of DoT from one Thorn shot. With that said though I think the only part that should be nerfed is range without the range it has it becomes a more situational weapon and less of a crutch.
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Bungie see this
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Have it, love it, use it, wish they would need it.
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I just think the burning should just get you to 1% and not kill you
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Thorn is definitely overused but you can't nerf it into the floor so it becomes nonexistent, its a fine line that needs to be walked. Me personally I get more frustrated and end up shaking my head when I go up against a TLW using blink shotgunner. At the end of the day though I don't get too angry by anything in this game, its a shake of the head with a slightly exasperated sigh and then I am over it. I move on and continue my day, maybe if I got paid to be good as an [b]actual[/b] professional that made money playing competitively then yeah I would rage. That's not the case though so I don't see the point in getting so worked up. Whatever though if it isn't thorn its whatever gun replaces it at the top of the pile.
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The burn shouldn't be able to kill you after you kill the person using it. Most annoying way to die.
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Just reduce the insane aim assist and you're good to go.
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2 RepliesThorn=poison to 3 ticks of 3 damage. The last word= remove 111 crits. Hawkmoon= put it on Xbox already. (I'm on ps4 btw)
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5 RepliesAnother point to add while TLW and Hawkmoon can 2 shot head shot it isn't sure-fire as Hawkmoon: can only 2 shot headshot if they have low armor stat or if a lucky bullet applies that said it is also, a low rate of fire allowing time for the victim to duck behind cover. TLW: is only a 2 shot head shot IF that 111 glitches or if hip firing plus it's range is the worst of the exotic handcannons making "sniping" with this gun more of a challenge. Thorn: on the other hand ALWAYS 2 shot head shots and the poison allows for tracking of the target and it also [b]stops recovery[/b] plus with a fire rate the same as TLW with better stability and a range that can challenge scout rifles and [i]snipers[/i] it is easily the most OP handcannon
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It's not just thorn all hand cannons they are the most used weapon in crucible all primaries should be balanced so people can pick what they want
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8 RepliesThorn = Pvp gjallahorn. It makes trials easier and I really don't see a better all around alternative (I don't have hawkmoon).
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1 ReplyJust revert it to how it used to be.
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I believe they should lower the fire rate make the poison take more skill at least to where u have to get a headshot to actually activate the dot and lower it a little cause I find it really annoying to get killed by the poison and not the fking gun that's just ridiculous
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Edited by xDeFalt: 6/28/2015 7:20:12 PMThey need to put it back to what it used to be pre buff,6 round mag,high recoil,medium range or at the very least make it so the poison disappears after the user dies or it doesn't kill you,just drops you to 1 health
