A dozen or so new threads about Thorn and how OP it is and it needs a nerf pops up everyday. However, most arguments about nerfing Thorn is emotional rather than logical. Most people get frustrated by the poison and slow recovery of Thorn rather than anything else. Many times people are not even killed by the Thorn user, they are killed by the next opponent who comes along when they are poisoned. Argument #1. Thorn kills me too fast and nothing can stand up to it. When I actually look up most people who make this statement, they are usually using an AR. Considering that AR have the longest TTK in crucible, Thorn will dominate it vast majority of the time. I have seen people with the TLW, Hawkmoon, Red Death, The messenger, Bad Juju, and Mida crush Thorn users. So it is not be all and end all weapon. Argument #2. Thorn requires no skills. If Thorn requires no skills than every individual who uses a thorn must have a insanely high K/D ratio. If you actually take a look, you will see that most Thorn users just like most crucible players in general have a K/D of less than 1. Argument #3. I would win at Trials if everyone didn't carry a Thorn. I seen groups who carry thorn themselves, complain that Thorn is ruining trials because they are not as effective with it as good players. If you have the same gun as the other group and you lose, it is you and not the gun. Argument #4. I refuse to use a Thorn because it is for scrubs. Most people who make this statement, have tried using it and got owned so they get frustrated by the fact they cannot dominate like some other Thorn users. Now if you do well with it and put it aside for a weapon that puts at a disadvantage, then I say you are not thinking strategically. Argument #5. Thorn is so OP no one uses anything but Thorn in Trials. If all players have deviated toward the same weapon, in actuality, the game has eliminated the weapon factor and reduced winning to player's skill set. If all players are using Thorn, the most skilled player will win every time. Having said all this, I am not saying that the Crucible is completely balanced and perfect. Can crucible be improved? Absolutely. However, Thorn is not what breaking crucible. The balance people are looking for will not be attained by simply nerfing Thorn. I can tell you that TLW is by far the most deadly hand cannon in crucible. If it is wielded by an expert user, it will crush everything. That gun just does not stand out because it is harder weapon to use but far more deadly. If Thorn is nerfed, that will be the immediate next gun that people will complain about. When TLW is nerfed, another gun will take its place. Edit: Wow tons of responses with some really good points. I want to clarify that I'm not for or against nerfing Thorn. If it gets nerfed (which I think it will soon) then it gets nerfed. What I was trying to point out was the bigger picture that Thorn is not nearly as big as problem as most people have made it out to be. Everyone is so caught up with this Thorn issue (for or against) that there is not enough focus on how broken the overall experience of crucible actually is. Some items that come to me that precedes Thorn are: -atrocious and constant lag in crucible and garbage netcode - terrible match making (experience, location, and connection) -unbalance overall weapons system -unbalanced classes and abilities - lack of proper effective range on most weapons (range stats are not true indicative of actual range in game play) -separation of PVE and PVP gun stats (Thorn was initially buffed because it was useless in PVE) The reason I picked Thorn to make this point is because at the moment, this is the most talked about weapon. Few months ago would have been Suros, and before than would have been Vex. Crucible is broken because the fundamentals behind the game are broken.