I play Halo over and over to this day and one of the issues I have with multiplayer (after playing games like Rainbow Six 3) is that Master Chief always died a handful of ways. I got tired of seeing the spin animation when i shot chief with a couple head shots. Now that seemed very unrealistic. I believe a next generation Xbox game should have ragdoll physics, to me it's a no brainer but everyone has their opinions. [Edited on 4/14/2004 11:40:06 AM]

The grunts can't land on their back because it is shaped funny. They can land sideways but their arm will disappear inside their body. The hunter can land forward or backwards and so can the other covenant, but that's it. I don't think that they should have ragdoll physics, just more positions of corpses. [Edited on 4/14/2004 11:22:16 AM]

A couple things to point out... First, Halo did not have true ragdoll. It had a substitution for ragdoll that calculated body position after the body came to rest. The main reason ragdoll is so popular is because it dynamically solves to way the body moves, and reacts to the solid objects around it. Part of a good ragdoll system is setting up a series of constraints based on the skeleton used to animate the model, dictating maximum ranges of rotation for each joint, so that, for example, a character's spine doesn't bend [url=http://www.bungie.net/images/forums/captions/crewman.jpg]backwards[/url] . Poorly implemented ragdoll systems do not take this into account. I prefer ragdoll over manually animated death because a person falling dynamically and hitting the ground based on their weight is far more realistic than killing 20 monsters that land the exact same way- Ever see a grunt end up on it's back after death? No, you haven't. Ever seen a Grunt's dead body roll until it could settle face down? Yes, you probably have. ;)

I also heard that they were probably going to use Havoc 2 for Halo 2, if this is true than the ragdoll physics will not only be in the game... but they will be awesome.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Makaveli since when was ... the ability to travel at the speed of light realistic ?[/quote] Actually, they don't travel at light speed in Halo. They travel through Shaw-Fujikawa slipspace (basically higher dimensional space, I assume, since this is what is usually used in SF to get around the light-speed barrier) to make distances between points in 3d space much shorter. And this is hypothetically possible. So don't go all "unrealistic" on me. Just to clarify. :) I also wonder why you assume that aliens embarking on holy wars is unlikely. SETI has scanned only a very small proportion of the galaxy for civilisations at technology levels about the same as ours; most of the work so far has been to try to detect very high levels of technology, since they are so easy to detect. And just about every war in history has been based on religion. Religion is a bad thing. - Reiginko

Yeah, see Bungie wouldn't make that sort of mistake. On a low-grav moon level, though, it could be different... - Reiginko

Ragdoll Physics can be good but most games don't use them very well the bodies either slide all the way across the room or do several unrealistic backflips. In max payne 2 for instance the bodies weigh nothing you can keep them pinned up against the ceiling if you keep shooting them with double uzi's.

The overall physics of Halo were great - warthog jumping is a testament to that. But the death animations did leave a lot to be desired - If you go flying from a grenade blast, your arms flail about as though you are [b]still alive[/b]. That's why the ragdoll-based physics for death animations in Halo 2 will be superior. Mind you, Bungie aren't just going to make the same mistake that everybody else has seemed to make, judging from this thread (I'm no gaming expert), I remember that somebody did say a while back that the system in Halo 2 will be based on ragdoll effects, but it will take bone structure etc into account. So don't get your knickers in a twist over it. - Reiginko

Ya, Halo has great physics! I'm sure there even be better in Halo 2!

They should just use their own physics system, the great physics were one of Halo's trademarks to begin with.

ragdoll are cool and dont forget that they can modify the system....

Animations are going way further than in Halo 1, I'd rather have an extremely large range of pre-animated deaths that look realistic than unrealistic dolls twisting like crazy.

Ragdoll physics might take it a little on the fake side like the whole body bending over 90 degrees, but hey, wouldn't you like to see bodies die in different ways and have gravity and physics decide how a body dies, or would you rather just see a body drop to the floor and see the exact same animation everytime? Bungie can make the whole ragdoll physics look real and I really hope they will add some type of death physics (ragdoll or something similar) to the game. I don't want to see pre-animated deaths like the first Halo did. Almost all the time the bodies just dropped to the floor in Halo. I know you guys didn't like that either...I mean wouldn't you rather see....you sneak up on someone from behind, on top of a building, and shoot him in the back with a shotgun and his body flips over the railing on the edge of the building, the guy lands on a warthog, and he slowly slides of the warthog and hits the floor. Another thing that I haven't seen that many games do, and I am just sick of developers not adding this, are realitic explosions and bullet wounds. I mean how the hell can someone get shot with a rocket and not have their body just blown apart? I want to see someones head, arms, legs, feet, and ass flying all over the place when they get blown up. Another thing I am tired of seeing is....who the hell can take a whole clip to the chest and not die!? On single player I can understand but why in multiplayer. Wouldn't it be cool if they added a "realistic weapon damage" option to the multiplayer? What I mean is...You don't have any shield of set amount of health...the way you die depends on how and where you get shot. Like say someone shoots you a couple of times in the leg with a pistol...you should be able to see blood dripping off your leg and you shouldn't be able to run...all you should be able to do is limp. Or say you get shot in the arm...you shouldn't be able to use that arm to shoot, and if you get both arms shot....well...you're in a lot of trouble....RUN! If you get shot in the arm with a shotgun at point blank range...your arm should come off and blood should be gushing out of the wound, and you will only have a short time to get medical help before you die of blood loss. And when you do go get healed, it shouldn't be instantaneous...It should take a while depending on your wound. If you get shot, it should only take like five seconds to stich the wound shut, but if you get your leg blown off...well it should take longer, say 30 seconds or something. This might sound way out there and stupid but hey I'm just tired of FPS, or games in general, not being as real as they can be. I don't know how many people agree with me or if you agree with me at all, but I'm just posting ideas, maybe bungie will like these ideas and incorporate them into the next Halo (I'm pretty sure the Xbox 2 can handle this extreme realism).

I think the physics in the first Halo were fine. In the physics engine was so intact, that it allowed to do all that grenade jumping crap with hogs! When someone get's hit with a grenade in Halo, the physics are generally good, with the dead body conforming to any edges it lands on.

ok ragdoll suks its the worst looking they had it in minority report the game and it sucked bad but i would like to see deaths like metal gear solid they do a good job at deaths

We are not dolls, we are humans with bones and organs, etc. I would like my games to look the same, like a REAL death, not a Raggitty Ann death.

Ragdoll Physics makes it look like hes practicing yoga like his ankles wrapped around his neck it doesnt look right

I thought the physics in Halo 1 were good enough, seriously. They should just improve that, and like you guys said possibly include some ragdoll "touches". But it should never get to the point that it lookes like Rainbow Six 3's physics.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MakaVeli4LIfe1 Bungie should create their own thing; make it a mix between ragdoll and whatever else they want to do with it. I have faith that the physics in Halo 2 are going to kick ass...I just know it[/quote He is right. Bungie used a combination of ragdoll and animation for the death in Halo. I guarantee that they will use a similar method for Halo 2.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XiroKe Dude, you're body is based around what they call "bones". Ragdoll doesn't take them in account, at all. Making them bend extremely unrealisticly, like someone else also mentioned already.[/quote] What they should do is make it so only the extremities (hands, arms, legs) have ragdoll-ish effects. An example of ragdoll physcis going to far, in my opinion, is in Hitman. I got complete faith in Bungie, and whether the physics aren't exactly what we want or not, the game is still on its way to becoming 'the -blam!-'

Have you see the ragdoll physic in FarCry.....those look realistic

I suppose you have a point.

Dude, you're body is based around what they call "bones". Ragdoll doesn't take them in account, at all. Making them bend extremely unrealisticly, like someone else also mentioned already.

Bungie should create their own thing; make it a mix between ragdoll and whatever else they want to do with it. I have faith that the physics in Halo 2 are going to kick ass...I just know it

From what I've read, Halo2 will use a little bit of Ragdoll Physics. Although having it in Halo 2 would be amazing, (imagine sniping a driver out of the Warthog only to have his body fall forward and lie on the dashboard until another player comes along and lifts his body out) I won't lose any sleep if Bungie decide not to include it. Ok, it makes the game more realistic, but since when was Aliens engaging in a Holy War with Humanity and the ability to travel at the speed of light realistic ?

i cant say they look fake because i never saw someone getting hit by a frag grenade... Look like you did... Ragdoll physic are based on real simulation with dummy