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10/14/2008 6:12:23 PM
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All UNSC Rifles are Bullpups?
Bullpups are rifles with the magazine behind the trigger.
Usually these configurations are uncommon as there are a number of criticisms that arise, such as:
-shells can only eject from one side, therefore a lefty cant use a righty arm,
-reloading is awkward and slow as you have to bring your hand back to the clip, or bring the gun up, (as the chief does)
-the trigger gives more resistance as the mechanism has to extend from the trigger backwards to the casing of the bullet (as opposed to the mechanism being closer to the front-loading cartridge)
-- MC is a super soldier, so this means nothing in his case
-weapons with bullpup configuration require a lot more maintenance, more moving parts, more wear, more expensive (you'd think fighting wars across galaxies, they'd try to budget somehow.)
Despite these criticisms, bullpups have longer barrels with respect to the bullets, and therefore have flatter trajectories and higher bullet velocities. (aka higher accuracy and power)
However, as we all know, the only UNSC rifle that can actually stay mildly true to its aim is the sniper rifle. We all know about the BR spread, even if you're not a hardcore player, you can tell how random the spray is. The same with the AR. You'd think that in the future, a bullpup M16 (Battle Rifle) would have a much higher accuracy than it already does, rather than having a worse one compared to a modern day M16 assault rifle with a normal configuration.
So, basically, Bungie decided to make the UNSC anti-left-handedness, anti-troop comfort, slower at reloading, all without the usual benefits these guns offer,
I hope our future military is smarter.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XmY Br iZ 4Sh0tX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Dr Whom [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XmY Br iZ 4Sh0tX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I So, basically, Bungie decided to make the UNSC anti-left-handedness, anti-troop comfort, slower at reloading, all without the usual benefits these guns offer.[/quote] Look at the P90. It is bullpup but has an ambidextrous design. Shells eject from the bottom. It also has a rather large clip of 50 rounds. We may not be able to get around the long reloading time but we can compensate for it. If we already made a weapon that solves most of the problems you say bullpup weapons have then you should fell that we are in good shape for the future.[/quote]P90 cannot be described as bullpup, it's a completely different horizontal loading system. [/quote] [url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bullpup]The definition of "bullpup".[/url] The part where the ammo comes from the clip and into the gun is behind the trigger which would make it a bullpup design. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90]Wikipedia on P90[/url] Hit control F and search "bullpup". Here is an exact quote: "The P90 is designed in the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup]bullpup[/url] configuration which reduces the firearm's overall length while retaining a full-length barrel." I always do my research.[/quote]I don't know if I wholly trust that article. I'll certainly agree the clip loads behind the trigger, but it is also located above the trigger and barrel. If it is bullpup, it is only loosely so. It's certainly not bullpup in the fashion the OP was referring to. And for the record, urbandictionary.com and wikipedia hardly classify as research.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XmY Br iZ 4Sh0tX He never said it wasn't an actual assault rifle, he is just saying it does not behave like one at all.[/quote] Oh. Alright then.
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I kind of agree, but I think you're underestimating it. Remember that the chief is immensely big, so the gun seems small by comparison [Edited on 10.14.2008 11:59 AM PDT]
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keep in mind that only one person on the team had ever fired a gun when they were working on Halo CE
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xxSpartanxxIIxx [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Innuendo91 I agree, and I love this misnomer "Assault Rifle." No accuracy, no scope or sights, weak bullets, and terrible range.[/quote] Actually, for a weapon to be an assault rifle, it just has to be a rifle (duh) with selective fire and a certain bullet size. Both of which the MA5B and MA5C have (not useable in the game but if you read the novels you'll see).[/quote] He never said it wasn't an actual assault rifle, he is just saying it does not behave like one at all.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Operation DUMBO Isn't the sniper rifle in standard configuration, with the clip in front of the trigger?[/quote] Hahaha. Yeah... [Edited on 10.14.2008 11:58 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Innuendo91 I agree, and I love this misnomer "Assault Rifle." No accuracy, no scope or sights, weak bullets, and terrible range.[/quote] Actually, for a weapon to be an assault rifle, it just has to be a rifle (duh) with selective fire and a certain bullet size. Both of which the MA5B and MA5C have (not useable in the game but if you read the novels you'll see).
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Dr Whom [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XmY Br iZ 4Sh0tX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I So, basically, Bungie decided to make the UNSC anti-left-handedness, anti-troop comfort, slower at reloading, all without the usual benefits these guns offer.[/quote] Look at the P90. It is bullpup but has an ambidextrous design. Shells eject from the bottom. It also has a rather large clip of 50 rounds. We may not be able to get around the long reloading time but we can compensate for it. If we already made a weapon that solves most of the problems you say bullpup weapons have then you should fell that we are in good shape for the future.[/quote]P90 cannot be described as bullpup, it's a completely different horizontal loading system. [/quote] [url=http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bullpup]The definition of "bullpup".[/url] The part where the ammo comes from the clip and into the gun is behind the trigger which would make it a bullpup design. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90]Wikipedia on P90[/url] Hit control F and search "bullpup". Here is an exact quote: "The P90 is designed in the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullpup]bullpup[/url] configuration which reduces the firearm's overall length while retaining a full-length barrel." I always do my research.
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Isn't the sniper rifle in standard configuration, with the clip in front of the trigger?
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the military now is hard core.. check out this [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zMpN_-pcas]rifle[/url] it can do some serious damage, just pray we don't have to use weapons that do ten times more damage than this in the future. every country has some hardcore -blam!- of there own, Russia has the AN94, and a whole lot of new guns from the AK family. [Edited on 10.14.2008 11:48 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] XmY Br iZ 4Sh0tX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I So, basically, Bungie decided to make the UNSC anti-left-handedness, anti-troop comfort, slower at reloading, all without the usual benefits these guns offer.[/quote] Look at the P90. It is bullpup but has an ambidextrous design. Shells eject from the bottom. It also has a rather large clip of 50 rounds. We may not be able to get around the long reloading time but we can compensate for it. If we already made a weapon that solves most of the problems you say bullpup weapons have then you should fell that we are in good shape for the future.[/quote]P90 cannot be described as bullpup, it's a completely different horizontal loading system.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I So, basically, Bungie decided to make the UNSC anti-left-handedness, anti-troop comfort, slower at reloading, all without the usual benefits these guns offer.[/quote] Look at the P90. It is bullpup but has an ambidextrous design. Shells eject from the bottom. It also has a rather large clip of 50 rounds. We may not be able to get around the long reloading time but we can compensate for it. If we already made a weapon that solves most of the problems you say bullpup weapons have then you should fell that we are in good shape for the future.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I normal weapons would not spread from that far, but the BR does? [/quote] Fired from the hip, like MC does, they would. If you scope in the spread is reduced to almost nil. [quote] With a bullpup configuration? [/quote] Who cares? Bungie thought it looked cooler that way. IT'S A VIDEO GAME, for crying out loud.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I I'm not saying anything about from the center hill of Valhalla to one of the bases, but more along the lines of a sniper tower to the bridge in the pit. normal weapons would not spread from that far, but the BR does? With a bullpup configuration? Where did the UNSC buy these weapons? Wallmart?[/quote]Yes, I can 4-shot that distance. I just aim the 1st 3 bursts to the body. And where did the UNSC buy there weapons from? Bungie. They have strict "no weapon left behind" policy that encourages healthy balance (and they offer discounts because of that). ;)
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I You'd think that in the future, a bullpup M16 (Battle Rifle) would have a much higher accuracy than it already does, rather than having a worse one compared to a modern day M16 assault rifle with a normal configuration. [/quote]You've fallen in to the trap of thinking because the shots aren't hitting dead on, the gun is inaccurate. In truth, it is the person firing it which causes the inaccuracy. The first shot with the BR is almost perfectly dead on to the middle, and then the next two of the burst can go wild. Not because the gun fires inaccurately, but because the person handling it can't handle the recoil perfectly and the gun shifts off target. The bullet is still going where the gun was pointed, the gun was just pointed in the wrong direction.
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What we r all missing is game design vs real life. In game fireing is controlled with invissible fireing boxes and other game mechanics and not the gun object ie AR,BR ect. thatz why if u look at playback ammo lookz like itz fireing beside the gun. So trying to compare the two makes no sence.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] AT AT Assault [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I Put a stationary target's head in the center of your crosshairs from across the map, try to four shot. Good luck.[/quote]Okay, you're noting 4 shots. Want to know something? Shields don't take into account where you hit them: Shield Damage is Shield damage. At that range, most of your shots should be aimed at the body to increase the amount of bullets that are hitting (and yes, even real guns will start spreading at that distance). Then, once the shields are down, you should aim for the head.[/quote] I'm not saying anything about from the center hill of Valhalla to one of the bases, but more along the lines of a sniper tower to the bridge in the pit. normal weapons would not spread from that far, but the BR does? With a bullpup configuration? Where did the UNSC buy these weapons? Wallmart?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I Put a stationary target's head in the center of your crosshairs from across the map, try to four shot. Good luck.[/quote]Okay, you're noting 4 shots. Want to know something? Shields don't take into account where you hit them: Shield Damage is Shield damage. At that range, most of your shots should be aimed at the body to increase the amount of bullets that are hitting (and yes, even real guns will start spreading at that distance). Then, once the shields are down, you should aim for the head.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Innuendo91 I agree, and I love this misnomer "Assault Rifle." No accuracy, no scope or sights, weak bullets, and terrible range.[/quote] Primarily limited to the USA, "Assault rifle" is a political term, regardless of the actual use and classification of the military; [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#Assault_weapons_vs._Automatic_weapons]click here[/url].
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xZcNx MarcWagz to call the battle rifle unaccurate is a lie... you can aim at the target and hit You can shoot from across a field of 100-200m and still hit the target. at that distance some real guns need aim adjustments.[/quote] Put a stationary target's head in the center of your crosshairs from across the map, try to four shot. Good luck.
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yeah, but the XM8 will be short lived
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to call the battle rifle unaccurate is a lie... you can aim at the target and hit You can shoot from across a field of 100-200m and still hit the target. at that distance some real guns need aim adjustments.
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If a discussion arises, why stop it because its not exactly on track with the first post of the thread? A person who sees this in the future will most likely post based on that, starting a new discussion. I wasn't the first person to bring up game balance, i merely refuted it.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Innuendo91 I agree, and I love this misnomer "Assault Rifle." No accuracy, no scope or sights, weak bullets, and terrible range.[/quote] "Assault rifles are short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges." The only one it fails at is selective-fire capability, and this is only done to balance gameplay. (According to the books, the AR can fire in both burst and fully auto modes.) [quote]Only one solution would be a Gaussian magnetic cannon, but making one that compact and effective would be impossible.[/quote] So would it surprise you to realize that it is already in development by [url=http://www.metalstorm.com]Metal Storm[/url]? It may not be that small yet, but don't say something is impossible when you have no idea of the physics behind it. All that is necessary is a few electro-magnetic coils and a tube with a bullet in it..... [Edited on 10.14.2008 11:14 AM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] I BEATD0WN I I know, I did read your post. Now look at the pistol. That's 10x more accurate than a BR. I'm well aware of balancing issues, but I'd rather have a BR that's more accurate that can kill someone with a minimum of 5-6 shots rather than a lucky 4. Does anyone rely on using other weapons besides the BR now anyway? Aside from the run gun and punch AR, no. All they accomplished was adding a luck factor to a game of skill citing false mechanics.[/quote]You started the thread as a Hypothetical "what if these weapons existed" and I gave you valid counterpoints as to why they would actually work. If you wanted the thread to have a tone of game mechanic balancings, you should have started it that way.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] chrism312 The Halo Assault Rifle could very well be firing caseless ammunition, as does the SMG (according to fluff)[/quote] Caseless ammunition. Might as well drive without an ignition, boil water (at 1 atm pressure) without heat, or use a computer without electricity. Only one solution would be a Gaussian magnetic cannon, but making one that compact and effective would be impossible.
