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5/7/2015 11:19:36 AM
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The Scariest Thing About House of Wolves PVE so far...

My reply to Casey's Planet Destiny look at the new strike, which you can find linked here. Someone asked if they could post it on the forums, so I figured I'd do it myself. This looks fun, but it highlights a scary possible future for Destiny PVE. Destiny took a lot of criticism early on for it's basic mission structure--voice over, run through stage, release Ghost, fight waves and add a bullet sponge if it's a strike. Excellent gunplay has saved it, but this tired structure is already showing its age. There are no notable vehicle mechanics, very little new enemy art and almost nothing in the way of new stage mechanics. There are also no notable NPCs which is a byproduct of terrible storytelling. Is our future just new loot on top of the same story and missions we've been doing since day 1? We're supposed to be in some war against the Darkness, but there are no battles. The factions mean nothing. The Traveler and Speaker haven't briefed us since September. We're just bounty hunters running errands and fulfilling expositional criteria that no one cares about. The gameplay is frozen in time trying to maintain the GroundHog's Day status quo. (End reply) This is not just a rant or a complaint. Destiny is my favorite game next gen. You can look at my stats and see what kind of player I am. I love what Bungie has done to improve PvP, the systems and the balance. My concern is that they don't get it when it comes to design the bulk of the game. The raids are great, but the missions, bounties and strikes are very simple, repetitive design. I can empathize with their challenge. They have to design the game for a wide range of skill, and do it in a way that replayability supersedes novelty. What good is an awesome cut scene after we've seen it a hundred times? That having been said, this game will come down to Raids and PvP until Destiny 2 if Bungie doesn't show us improved design on the rest of the game, which is actually most of the game. This world is still a hollow boned skeleton in desperate need of fleshing out. We are not in an epic space war. We are not part of a story. Destiny is not a world. It's a matte painting backdrop that falls over the moment you get close enough to touch it. I don't mind the feedback loop of doing tasks to get loot to do tasks to get loot...as long as it's going forward and not a hamster wheel. I hope Bungie figures it out, but right now the Missions, Quests, Bounties and "story" are looking like reskinned versions of what we've all done before. So far in the vids, the music in the Prison of Elders is recycled from current content. I really hope that isn't the case in the final release. Vanilla Destiny had a brilliant soundtrack, but since they fired the original composer we have yet to see if the future of the franchise's music is in jeopardy. Bungie has been great about listening to the community, so let's make sure they know we don't want reskinned, rehashed, remixed content. They have to keep innovating the design of the actual missions the same way they've done with Raids and Game Systems.
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  • I would love to talk about each and every point you just made however... I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain. I mean honestly... I could tell you of the great battle, centuries ago… how the Traveler was crippled. I could tell you of the power of the Darkness, its ancient enemy. There are many tales told throughout... But your not going to hear any of them.

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    • I only ever post on LFG forums. But I feel like saying something about the most commonly discussed issues with the game. Take another FPS like COD and compare it to Destiny. People complain about the lack of content in destiny, but my feeling is that there are so many more options for gameplay styles in Destiny. We have been given missions, raids, and strikes, patrols, and nightfall for pve players. Pvp players have different game types, exclusive events like iron banner, and ToO to come. On top of that we have third person social areas. I feel like there is only so much that can be done to satisfy the gameplay of a first person shooter while still allowing it to feel like a FPS. In my opinion, games like cod and halo just don't compare being that they only really have missions and pvp with little character customization compared to Destiny. The purchased expansions we receive for Destiny are also much larger than Other games expansions. Other games simply give us a few multiplayer maps for out money whereas Destiny gives us missions, new multiplayer maps, raids, strikes, and now new game modes in HOW. No comparison. As far as RNG goes, I think people need to realize that's a big reason they keep playing the game. It's like gambling every time you complete a raid, nightfall, strike or pvp match. There's always the chance you might get that exotic weapon you're after. It's an addictive mechanism that can be disappointing at times, but when you are rewarded randomly with your sought after gear it feels that much better. It's a way to keep people interested in playing the game, there's always the chance you could receive something good for your efforts.. I probably wouldn't be playing this game if it wasn't RNG, and I doubt the majority of the games player base would still play either. It wouldn't be as fun or addicting if everything was given to the players or needed to be unlocked. Just my thoughts.

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      • Well thought out and on point statement. And I totally agree. I love this game, but house of wolves had to do something to innovate.

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      • Bump

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      • 10/10 great statement

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      • Well spoken, guardian.

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      • Bump well stated sir. Love this game just wish it was more of the original concept.

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      • Everything!

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      • Edited by Deathbeat94: 5/7/2015 4:42:54 PM
        I liked the new strike... It's not a repeated area... Just my opinion tho

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        • I agree 100% Prison of elders looks promising, but it really disappoints me that the bosses are just bigger versions of generic enemies. At least put in the effort to make them slightly unique like the strike bosses. That I can accept, but just re-sizing a generic enemy and giving it a cool name doesn't bod well with me.

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          • Good and articulate points, and I see many discussions sparked below that are just as good. Refreshing thing to see on the Destiny forums, thank you.

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          • The scariest oart is its completely shook my faith in this game. I always gave it a chance thinking they'd right the wrongs. Now after this dlc ive gad enough of being kicked where it hurts.

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            • This is very well written and a rather apt explanation of where the game is currently stagnating. I do know that bungie hired a lore master several months ago, but the time frame for anything he will do to be implement is going to be huge. Maybe Comet will show the beginnings of his efforts but something tells me that even that is too soon. We might not actually be able to see any real improvement to these issues until destiny 2. Is that an excuse for bungie? Not at all, I'm as tired of the repetition as most of you probably are. It's just a realistic view of what would actually be possible. The time frame for story elements to be implemented in a game like this is not small. Right now I get the impression that bungie is doing whatever it can to buy more time. The Dark Below expansion was almost entirely phoned in. House of wolves looks to be pretty bare bones as well, though it is atleast adding new things, with a raid coming at an indeterminate date in the future, most likely as a stop gap to prevent us getting bored and leaving before Comet comes out. As you've said, the infrastructure for the game is strong, now we need to wait and see if bungie can add some life to this skeleton. Unfortunately that takes time, we just have to wait and see. And hope that bungie can figure it out before it is too late.

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              • Yes. To all of that.

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              • Thank you for saying what i wanted to say :)

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              • Edited by G4LL0WGL455: 5/7/2015 4:52:31 PM
                Well said. I am a casual player and am getting tired of the grind. Being forced into fire teams for certain parts of the game versus matchmaking does limit when you can play those parts if your friends are online and available. The Halo franchise had story AND replayability.The lessons and learning should have transferred. Destiny had me hooked in the beta. The first part before TDB was good. TDB is/was a disaster. HoW looks promising. Let's hope!

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              • Edited by plumasaurusrex: 5/7/2015 4:54:49 PM
                I've glitched into the ketch before lol

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              • Edited by Raymonator: 5/7/2015 4:48:38 PM
                How to you propose they balance the people that play daily vs. the casuals who pick up once a week? There are so many people that just want to pick up the game for an hour or two and they still enjoy the strieks because they haven't run them 1000 times. I think the strikes are pretty solid as they are especially as we get more and the rotation is better so you don't run the same ones every day. The PoE is an example of PvE becomming more dynamic. Sure it's mostly the same bad guys to shoot but with different modifiers and difficulties to choose from it does help to mix things up a bit. Everything can be dumbed down if you try hard enough. I could make a case for the Trials being nothing new. You are still shooting other players with the same guns on the same maps. I think Bungie has done a great job with both PvP and PvE when you concider what they launched with and we are still in the early stages. i am with you though, regardless of all of it Destiny is the only game I play on both X1 and PS4. Maybe a little 2K here and there but not much.

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                • all I got to say is this.....its a game im fine with the way destiny is right now and for the price its a steal....you complain about the cost smh!.....I blow 20 bucks at the movies like its nothing for what 2 hours of entertainment....people complain about all kinds of stuff......so for 20 bucks I get 3-4 months of solid play cause I only play in between work and regular life and about the time I tire of the content bam another release of content....I feel people are being so overly critical

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                  • A good read. I agree completely- I'm in love with Destiny, but I won't get love back.

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                  • I do agree that yes, the story has been an absolute train wreck so far. However, I would argue that a lot of people haven't cared, and have wanted more important stuff fixed, which is what Bungie has done. I think most of us can agree that Destiny is in a much better position now than it was when TDB being released. A large amount of our complaints have either been resolved, are going to be once HoW releases, or are being worked on. We have 5 story missions now for HoW instead of 3, so that's something. How well will it tell the story though? That we will have to wait and see

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                  • Edited by freakface99: 5/7/2015 3:14:21 PM
                    What i really hate is that they do HAVE a story and fantastic lore but just did such a shit job implanting it into the game. Its all in the grimoire and if you take the time to read you'll be amazed at some of the ideas and concepts they have in place. Theres so much mystery in the universe its exciting and i believe thats the purpose of this game is to rediscover what was previously lost to us in the collapse. Even the raids have their own storylines dissolved in enigma, especially the VOG. It really is awe inspiring and i wish they spent more time/did a better job showing that in the plot line. I think it would give our adventures all more meaning and make the game a whole lot more fun to play. Examples of some of those concepts and history: -"The stranger" most likely from Jupiter or Saturn's moons living on a long lost colony at war with its own survival -The VOG does not exist in time and space. Some more cool things is that the portals at Atheon are not mars and venus but actually the vault in future and past and a warrior named Kabr, the last of his team when they reached Atheon, reforged himself into a the relic so those who came after could defeat Atheon. -They traveler birthed the golden age but also brought its demise by bringing the darkness with it. It created the ghosts to seek out those who died before who were worthy to be guardians and brought them back, to do the work it no longer could. These are just some of my favorites...

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                    • Bump! Well written, my friend.

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                    • Right on the money with this.

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                    • This sums up the situation of Destiny quite perfectly.

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                    • Amazing game play? You can hold interest for releases and hardcore fans. No story to keep people emotionally invested? You can only get by for so long on good looks honey. In this world...games age quickly. With no story to pull people back " what happened?! I must defend the tower!! " you're left with fan boys and casual step ins. Not enough to pay the bills on a title like that. At the very least creative staff will move on and the game will suffer then die. No story. No emotional investment. Nothing attractive enough to lure in the huge buy that destiny 1 had. Based on lies... They did catch and release...but didn't change the bait. Now they will just keep catching the same couple stupid fish over and over. But..they have to eat sometime and you can't keep letting your dinner go....

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