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#feedback

Edited by stacK: 4/27/2015 2:54:30 PM
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stacK

PVP Lag/Lag Switching Solution!

Hello Fellow Feedback Forum Followers! I have a few suggestions for the developers to increase connection fidelity within the crucible. First, let me establish the background for this post. Lag switching, poor quality connections, and a lack of player QoS management have led to some very poor crucible experiences that have been filling up the feedback section since day 1. There have been some very well thought out posts made on this topic and one in particular has even included network tests to detail the bandwidth requirement for Iron Banner play. It can be found here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/110496165/0/0 Interestingly, the author concluded that even a phone connection could handle Destiny's pvp needs and not one should even be having a problem. Therefore, why so many issues? I will name a few common reasons for lag: -Saturation due to shared networks in the home. Setting up QoS or bandwidth throttling can fix this, though not many users have the access or know-how. -Lag switching, a cheat used to force lag at will in order to gain an advantage. -Out of region play. Matchmaking may pair players up with others in another country or at the other end of their own. -Inconsistent ISP performance. Though a line going into the home may be rated as premium/high speed there could be faulty hardware or congested pools in a given residential area. -Wifi gaming. The game console may not be wired into a router and is instead connected to a wireless access point that may be out of optimal range or susceptible to interference, causing lag. There are many reasons why theoretical bandwidth does not realistically perform to rated speeds. Whatever the cause, the large playerbase of this game has resulted in widely inconsistent quality for pvp. As noted in the thread linked above, PVE doesn't require as optimal of a network environment as PVP and therefore has not seen many issues aside from raiding. The answer is smoothing out the experience so that those who have a stable network are not matched up with those who do not. The way to safely do this is not via the current matchmaking process that looks at connection quality at a glance. It is found in creating a history of connection quality for a player and granting them a rating. Those who rate excellent/fair/poor over a given period of time (10-20 matches) are ranked with others with similar results. The performance metrics can be measured using the current connection quality algorithms (the green/yellow/red bars during a game and matchmaking that occurs prior to a match) yet an average should recorded and kept over time. These should be monitored for changes every week or so and players should either move up or down slightly in their rating depending on how consistent the network quality is over their first 10-20 games that period (sudden drops in connection quality will be recorded). Yet, after that measurement cycle, the rank will stay the same until the next one starts. These ranks should persist and perhaps reset completely after each major content drop. For groups of players, all those in a group should be forced to matchmake with the lowest rating in their group, the weakest link so to speak. That way players will know what kind of game they can expect when grouping up with that individual. In addition, this information should be made public for multiple reasons. First, so you know who you are linking up with and what to anticipate. Second, so users can check their own status and be given a chance to make changes. Third, so that lag switchers are discouraged from cheating since it will be obvious to all, and prevent them from continuing to do so, lest they lag themselves into being isolated with others like them. Thanks for reading, I'll be monitoring this thread to answer any questions or make clarifications. tldr: create a network history for every player to enhance current matchmaking methods and prevent one lagger from ruining a pvp game for all. Edit: typo Edit 2: typo

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  • Edited by Powermix24: 7/9/2015 6:57:25 AM
    my Playstation 4 is 1 1/2 feet away from my Router/ my Modem is 20 inches away from my router . i have 200/20 up speed . the crucible got so out of hand , i had technicians climbing polls & checking latency & packet loss . got a new Modem , new cables , router is fine since it happens with or without it . the Connection is fine , i get 26 ms to servers 1249 miles away . sometimes its 40-50. still no explanation to why this happens . Bungie is about 1350 miles away from my location. Bungie i want to enjoy your game , but Pirates have taken over it and sailing away in your 8 years sweat & tears . do something about it. i don't want to play the NEW CTF mode with red bars & dudes teleporting to the capture zone . FIX IT !@!!@!@!@!@!@!@ Edit: Typo

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  • Good points (less words next time pls). Agreed

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  • Bump!!! It was in Destiny that I first began to actually enjoy PvP. Unfortunately that lasted until my first IB experience (this month is my second), and the killer wave of lag problems and lag switchers that it unfurled upon my unsuspecting Hunter, Warlock and Titan! I haven't given up completely, since the sweet gear from IB keeps suckering me in (couldn't resist Timur's Lash and Gheleon's Demise). But what used to be fun, challenging and sometimes intense, has now become more annoying, frustrating and bad-mood-inducing than anything... all because of lag problems, and the disappointing fact that nothing seems to have been done about it! Your idea is one of the best I've seen so far; it would allow fair players to avoid cheaters (or at least see less of them), encourage people to change for the better rather than simply boot or ban them. Until I read this, I would've voted for outright banning or at least booting players from lobbies, but your idea also avoids unjustly punishing the unlucky ones who just have a bad connection (I used to be one before I understood I should change to hardline/modem rather than wi-fi, and my scores were suffering, not benefiting from it!) I hope this post gets more bumps, and more attention from Bungie. Good thinking stacK!

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  • Everyone should just cheat now. At least its even-ish ground.

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  • Thanks for putting this together and the excellent overview. You made some really good claims that I think align to a lot of experiences. Outside of some of the bad design decisions for Crucible, the matchmaking takes the cake as the #1 bonehead decision Bungie/Activision made. I'm nearly certain that the horrid state of matchmaking was brought in by Activision, and here's why: This game's success is measured in retention, that is; how many players show up, stick around, and come back. Research on the business end of gaming has shown a consistency with regards to retention and player wait time. In other words, the more a player sits around waiting for a match, the less likely they are to return and play the game. The short story is that most publishers now push very hard for "what gets the player in the game the fastest." It's honestly quite sad that this is what multiplayer gaming has come to. Microsoft published a paper not to long ago that claims using geolocation for host selection versus actually measuring latency between player/host is "just as good and takes 1/4 of the time." At the ass end of these type "solutions" are the truly dedicated players. The minority whose voices will not be heard because the big name publishers consider dedicated players a "sure thing." The last, truly sad part to all of this is that Bungie used to be one of the most innovative companies concerning pvp networking. None of the Halo games were ever built like the typical UDP spam protocol games (CoD). The multiplayer in Reach was not everyone's favorite, but it was ahead of its time. So here we are now, in 2015 using the same basic architecture that was used in Quake 2, spamming packets and terrible first come first serve matchmaking.

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    • Yep because of shitty matchmaking protocol, or lack thereof

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    • I've been experiencing this for the last week consistently. I honestly think if this isn't fixed I'm not going to buy any bungie games again. I'm a playstation guy and this really is unacceptable. If you are going to have a multiplayer game that you aren't supporting, you are going to get hate. I recently got into PvP and it is horrible. As a PC gamer, this kinda lag blows my mind.

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      • Destiny's Crucible makes me very agressive because of it's shit connection. I can't wait to get that Grimoire.......and NEVER play Crucible, again. It's just not funny! I am beiing insulted bij Bungie, because they gave me a waterpistol and tomatoes and the players with bad connections shoot with machine guns and nuke's. If this advantage for bad connections is not enought, they get to see you earlier on their screen, then you see them on your screen. So mostly i don' t stand a chance. With my shooters past, i should have a k/d at least 2/3. Have done more then 500 crucible matches and maybe 50 of those were "normal". Maybe less experienced players don't see the difference of connection advantage/ disadvantage, but I DO ;)

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        • Bump

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        • 1
          Bump

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        • Bump, thank you

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        • Deej nuts

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        • This is great!

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          • Bump

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          • Bump! Setting up QoS didnt do much when i set mine up a few months back, just keeps me connected longer - minus the few random errors that happen out of the blue. Good news is i havent gone below a green bar since, but due to other peoples poor connections the crucible stays laggy. The best was today when i got first blood and it said i struck first on the feed, only to not get any points until about 30 seconds in where the kill feed lit up with my name, a sniper image and the dead players ign. its sad and disgusting that destiny has these issues as no other game i have played online to this day has had, and i've been gaming online for nearly 18 years.

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            • Bump

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            • bump

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            • My PlayStation is about 15 feet away from my WiFi router, and I do have issues in PvP on occasion, but when I do, almost, if not all, of the other players in the game have poor connection/lag issues as well. I can have a green bar before the match, and then red at the start, green in the middle, and yellow at the end. And all other players show about the same too. I'll even turn off my WiFi for a while to give it a rest but that doesn't seem to make a difference.

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              • bump

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