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OffTopic

Surf a Flood of random discussion.
Edited by Bigger Masshole: 4/14/2015 10:05:27 PM
220

Were the atomic bombs dropped on Japan justified?

Great. This is just asking for trouble... Keep in mind I'm not asking whether the U.S. was a hero or villain, I'm asking whether it was justified or not. Now before you right something out of emotion, keep these things in mind: - The building of the atomic bomb was a response to the discovery that Germany was also developing nuclear weapons. The U.S. probably would've never built one if Albert Einstein didn't tell the U.S. government of Hitler's plan to develop and use. - For those who've never heard of The -blam!- of Nanking, you might want to look it up. The Imperial Japanese Army committed atrocious acts against the people of Nanking, China during a 6 week period being in December of 1937. An estimation of civilians who were killed is in the 200-300 thousands. Most women of most ages were -blam!-, not only by Japanese soldiers, but by sons, brothers, and fathers that were forced to do it by the Japanese. Men, women, and children of all ages were also slaughtered in most brutal of ways. Many suffered torture(too many types to name) before finally being killed. Most Japanese soldiers actually smiled and laughed while committing these atrocities. - Just like Germany, Japan was incredibly racist. They believed that they were the pure Asian race and saw people of non-Japanese descent as inferior (refer to The -blam!- of Nanking). Not only that, but they believed it was them who should own the Pacific, which is part of the reason why they bombed Pearl Harbor on December of 1941. At that point, America needed to act because of the attack on its own turf. - With the fall of the Axis Powers in Europe, the full attention was now turned to the Pacific. Unfortunately, FDR died of a stroke in April of 1945, while the atomic bomb was still in development. Harry Truman took office and was not aware of the Manhattan Project until he entered office. - The Japanese mentality of fighting was that of something never seen before. No surrender, fight until the very end, and suicide if all else fails. These guys were extreme radicals. They fought with an extreme passion for their country and Emperor. - Truman was a devout Christian. He had to make one of the hardest decisions a person could make. But here is some more background on the situation. • The scientists who developed the bomb had different views from one another. Some believed it needed to be dropped, while others thought a monster would become of this. Here is a famous quote by Einstein (a lifelong pacifist) regarding this; "Organized power can be opposed only by organized power. Much as I regret this, there is no other way." • Many generals of the U.S. also debated this. General Eisenhower believed it shouldn't be dropped because it would tarnish America's reputation. General Marshall believed it needed to be dropped because the only way to defeat the Japanese was with an unconditional surrender. When it came down to it, a peace agreement wasn't an option. • There was a plan to drop an atomic bomb near Japan so everyone in Japan could see it. However, this could not be done because if the Japanese knew they had atomic bombs and figured out what cities America would drop them on, then Japan would've moved their operations, factories, and people to different locations while moving in American POWs to be bombed instead. It needed to be a surprise. • There was an estimation of the cost of invading Japan. Now, cost in this instance means lives of human beings, not just money. Hundreds of thousands of lives were thought to be lossed, civilian and soldier alike. America also knew that Japan would prolong the war as long as possible, depleting them of money, resources, and lives. Dropping the atomic bomb was thought to bring a swift surrender, even though it would cost the lives of thousands. The estimation of the dropping of the bombs was in between 30 to 60 thousand. This wasn't the case, but no one could actually knew what the damage would've been. So, it seemed more sensible to drop the bombs. • Put yourself in Truman's shoes for a minute. He was a very humble and kind man. Now, he has to make a decision that no matter what would effect the course of humanity. He knows soldiers, sons and fathers, were still fighting in the Pacific. How do you look someone in the eyes when his or her son or father has been killed knowing you had the technology to end it several months or years earlier? At that point, it wasn't about how many lives would be lost, it was either America or Japan. Though this was the most unethical option, it was the only option... - Hiroshima and Nagasaki, though not direct military bases, were strategic for attack. The factories that created most of Japan's weaponry and munitions were located in those citites, making them vital target locations. Unfortunately, civilians also live in cities. American aircraft actually dropped flyers describing the atomic bomb a day before the bombing as a type of warning. Hiroshima, bombed on August 6th of 1945, witnessed the most destructive weapon mankind has ever built. The Japanese were hesitant to surrender. The Emperor was a weak leader, under control of General Tojo. The Japanese military and people were something new during this time. The only way to defeat this type of mentality of fighting to the very end, killing you self not to be taken by the enemy, fighting with an extreme passion, and never surrender in the eyes of many was to kill as many as possible. 3 days later, Nagasaki was bombed. - The Emperor couldn't stand to see his people suffer and die like this. He urged for a surrender. However, the military still had the last say and refused to. The Japanese government let the 2nd bomb happen. They could've prevented the 2nd bomb from happening, but let it be dropped on its own people to "test" the U.S.. Russia then got involved several days later by threatening to invade Japan. Japan knew they couldn't handle more atomic bombs and an invasion, and formally surrendered on September 2nd of 1945. - After it all, an estimated 200 thousand lives were lost to the dropping of those bombs and the Japanese economy was ruined. However, America didn't sit back and watch them suffer. America helped them rebuild their economy and country for 10 years after WW2, which resulted in Japan years later to be greatly prospering. To this day, the constitution for Japan is known as the MacArthur Constitution because he introduced many of the new policies for Japan during the reconstruction. I might be missed a few more important points, but these are definitely strong ones to think about. Just thought I'd do this because of my history class. Been awhile since I've done something worth talking about, might as well be this. Please keep it serious as we are talking about a sensitive topic. No arguments or bait for this one (maybe the next one).
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  • Yup.

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  • It was needed. Because if we had invaded it would've cost far more lives. Even if we had support from the Russians. (Who Stalin would've sent them to die anyway) we wouldn't have been able to fight them for long. Sadly, the bombs needed to drop. It's sad to say, but I can't imagine any other possibility.

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    • All of the below is hypothetical of course Well, it was either they dont drop the bomb, let the war continue and thousands, or even millions of people die. Or drop the bombs and possibly end the war, still killing thousands.

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    • Dang right it was justified. Blowin' stuff up is always justified. Whether it's an ant hill or a nation. This is 'Merica ya bunch of hippies. Land of the beer and home of the beer. You don't like it.... Get the blam out! 'Merica

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    • I love this question. I say it was justified for the same reasons that you have written. I say, thank God America found it first. Yeah, we used it but we prevented Japanese genocide not to mention Soviet intervention. If the Japanese never surrendered and we didn't use the nuke the Soviets would have invaded Northern Japan and China: think about what that would have done to the world. If the [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] had discovered the bomb (they were weeks away) they would have used it on the allied armies first (there's a few million right there). Then they would have used it on England, probably London no doubt. Then they would have DECIMATED Eastern Europe with them (the entire Eastern Europe continent would have been wiped from the face of the world, genocide on a mass scale.) They would probably then Nuke most of China and the Middle East not to mention Russia. And if the Japanese had somehow discovered the bomb, well they would have nuked everyone that wasn't Japanesse, so pretty much the entire world.

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      • I consider myself a history buff, and have argued that the bombing was not needed. I still didn't know half of this. Completely changed my mind. Guess you were right, Burrito

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      • I believe if was necessary.

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      • Yes, there is no real discussion.

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      • They were not justified. PERIOD. And that's the truth.

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      • Did not read your whole post so forgive me but I usually just jump to my opinion on this matter. Atomic weapons were clearly cruel and not necessary for the surrender of Japan. We could have just laid siege to the island of Japan until they gave in from lack of resources but that could have taken months if not years. Invading Japan was never an option too many Americans would be lost and it just wasn't necessary. I'm not Truman. I don't know what he was thinking. But I truly feel that he did not bomb Japan to save American lives. He bombed Japan to scare the Soviet Union. If these bombs had never been used in combat it is very possible they could have been used willy nilly during the Cold War. And I think we can all agree that that would be way worse than what happened to the Japanese. Fair enough?

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      • No

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      • To address your point that the Japanese were racial supremacists like the Germans, even if it were true this would be no justification for a nuclear attack. Aside from poor justification, numerous historians believe the Nanking incident to have been committed by the Chinese on their own people and they accused the Japanese instead with their propaganda. As for the Germans, their army was more racially diverse than any ally army. The Waffen SS was made up of nothing but non-Germans, including Arabs and Indians. Most of your points are propaganda or history that has been twisted to fit the narrative of the victors. If the Axis won and Japan dropped bombs on the US, they'd probably be discussing how it was justified because of America's blockades, boycotts, and concenteation camps for Japanese. You call them racists but at the time, America was the country with segregated public areas and Jim Crow laws. How ironic. We shouldn't have dropped OR invented nuclear weapons. Anything in favor of it is justification for evil. The double standards around it are dumbfounding as well. People are saying that nuclear war was a good thing as they drive around with "save the planet" or "reduce carbon emissions" bumper stickers. Hilarious.

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        • Also japan now has no standing army they have a law saying that they can only mobilize an army only to defend

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        • No. Yes. Should have hit an uninhabited place

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          • Edited by Orbital Drop Shock Trooper: 4/15/2015 7:28:39 PM
            I've had a lot of discussions about this with much older people and in short, the answer is no. This moment forever changed America and the World as it indicated that America would become a World Power by force and oppression. Instead of through diplomacy and withholding upstanding moral character to separate itself from others who would stoop as low. They lowered the bar to such a point, it forever stains the U.S in World History. Even foreign policy today still has remnants of bombing = the solution but on a much smaller scale, showing that the U.S hasn't changed its stance of aggression much within the turn of the century. Flip the switch, Had Japan had nukes would they be justified with nuking the U.S to end the War? The answer would still be no.

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          • I am talking about this in my history class this week. Yes I think it was because of a few reasons. The Japanese were not going to surrender. It was either this or firebomb every single city on the island. They were preparing for "total war". Women and children were being trained to be suicide bombers. It showed the rest of the world we were not to be -blam!-ed with. It paved the way for many programs (like NASA)

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          • The propaganda is strong with this one.

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            • *Cough, cough* https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/112845343/0/0

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              • Wow...didn't see this coming.

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              • It prevented a land invasion of Japan which would have ended in loosing more lives on [u]both[/u] sides, and even so Japan wouldn't surrender to an invasion unless literally all their soldiers are dead.

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              • We didn't want to Nuke Japan but it was the only way to make them surrender. It was estimated that if we did a land invasion we would loose 1 million US soldiers. Or we could drop the bomb and save us lives. So the best choice was nuking them. [spoiler]There's rumors that the US was going to Nuke Tokyo too but the Japs heard this over the radio and then surrendered.[/spoiler]

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                • That happened and we let it happen.

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                • The atomic bombs were no worse that the fire raids

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                • It ended the war sooner saving more lives but at the cost of innocent civilians.

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                • Well it ended the war with fewer casualties then invading Japan would have, so... #worth???

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                • My guess is it was payback from Pearl Harbor x10

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