[i]ManiacalMaestro's cooking class...[/i] Today, we're going to make ice cream. First we start with a half gallon of Rocky Road. Then, add in two slices of pizza. Mix in a pound of chopped steak. Season with some lovely Cavender's Greek Seasoning. Sprinkle with a cup of shredded mozzarella cheese. If you want to sweeten it up, add a slice of cake. Mix on high for 5 minutes and you have the most un-bland dessert you've ever had in your life.

Stop projecting.

Because adding one remotely competitive mechanic to Destiny's PVP is seen as "watering it down"....seriously, if that's what you feel "watering down" is, your pallet terrifies me. "Oh, this cereal is fantastic. Is that a hint of parsley? I must say, using Chardonnay instead of milk was a fine choice today. Maybe tomorrow I'll go with the chopped veal and Lucky Charms."

Your false equivalency of food analogies aside. If [i][u]your[/u][/i] idea of [quote]competitive[/quote] play involves limiting everyone to the same dull playstyle then you obviously aren't good, can't adapt, or a combination of the two.

How is reducing the number of heavy drops from 2 to 1 limiting everyone to the same dull playstyle? It actually [i]creates[/i] differentiation by restricting the use of heavy weapons to one team. And if there's something Crucible encounters need, its variety. If you like trading kills as a group of opponents blast each other with rockets, that's fine. It's just disinteresting to me. Destiny can do better. It can achieve the balance of a diverse weapon sandbox (which is in place, just needs better deployment) while maintaining the core competitive elements of shooters that Bungie helped define over a decade ago. As it stands, Bungie deciding Halo 3's Team Fiesta should be it's core PVP model disenfranchised huge chunks of players that put tons of time into their games. Empower players, fine. But when a player at any given time, and numerous times throughout the game, can have half a dozen ways to one hit kills an opponent, it's boring. It's shallow. [i]That[/i] is watering down the experience. A bunch of overpower space zombies is watered down.

C'mon Wronghorn, you know everyone blinking around with Felwinter's is the pinnacle of PvP! ADAPT KID. - Der

So in other words you can't adapt. Got'cha.

And the Maestro has devolved to 'adapt' arguments. When that's the defense to Crucible's current set-up, then Bungie really has lost their touch when it comes to making dynamic shooters. That fall from grace was sure quick.

Because you can't deal. Try to deal with it.

Why? I could adapt to walking around one legged all the time, doesn't mean I should. Or that it's worth it. I've yet to hear one argument for the Crucible's current state that isn't "Well it's super fun to have all these super powers!" I'm still waiting for it. Wouldn't change the fact that every time I've stepped foot in the Crucible I could feel Bungie actively encouraging me to embrace a myriad of witless, shallow, boring tactics to become super space zombie. I can adapt. It doesn't take long to find a worthwhile shotgun, get used to blinking, and doing any other number of things from a list of "Shit That An Actual Competitive Shooter Wouldn't Degrade Itself By Doing" to improve a pretty mediocre K/D in this game....but that's boring. There's no appeal to that. Especially when I can quit the game, load up Halo, and remember a time where Bungie actually crafted a competitive shooter with balance, risk, reward, and depth.

And you're whole argument is [quote]durr hurr bwinking es oh pepe XDDD[/quote] I can just as easily give you my own personal anecdotes of how I remember when whiners didn't rule shooters. When it was[quote] shit, I died, where did [b][i][u]I[/u][/i][/b] go wrong? How can [b][i][u]I[/u][/i][/b] perform better?[/quote] Now all I see is [quote]waaaah, I dieeeed waaaaah! OhPePe XDDD NERF ET XD[/quote]

It takes about four scrolls down to my original reply to this thread to see why I support the topic in question. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/114657977/0/0/1]Hell, I'll even link it for you.[/url] As you can see, it even includes anecdotes from when whiners didn't rule shooters as well. Also, from when Bungie wasn't afraid to create a shooter that let player's differentiate themselves through individual school and collective team effort. The Crucible is horrifically shallow when compared to those experiences. I don't know what your experience is with competitive shooters, but I can't imagine the dissonance you've gone through to arrive at "the Crucible is analogous to those experiences."

I enjoy variety. Where quick wit and matchless counter play dictate the outcome of a battle, not [quote]hoo dun got da ammu?[/quote] I figured this would be apparent by now. The ops conjecture doesn't lend itself to that end; ergo I disagree with you by proxy thereof. If anything then the ops points would only lead to the same bland experience for everyone. Halo was in no means revolutionary and the fact that you consider it so leads me to believe you don't have enough experience in the genre to be commenting on it at all. Furthermore, you're correct in assuming the archetypal weapon distribution system found in the aforementioned has solid merit to both gameplay and battle flow; however, your error is in assuming you can shoehorn this system into Destiny. The problem lies in the fact that these suggestions only work when the entire system is built around them. Destiny isn't, wasn't, and is being forcibly changed into it. The only way ops system can work is if we all are equipped with the same [b][i][u]very limited[/u][/i][/b] load out potential. Same primary, same secondary, and same tertiary. [spoiler]Muchwow. SuchMLG.[/spoiler] If that's the route you want to take Destiny down then by all means, march forth and make it so; but I want none of it.

And the notion that Destiny's Crucible rewards quick wit is a hysterical farce. It doesn't take wit to load up a fusion rifle or blinking shotgun or one hit melee ability or charge your super by sitting on capture points or tossing a tracking grenade or dancing by a heavy ammo crate at your spawn...

I never considered it revolutionary. It made that style of gameplay the standard, but was far from revolutionary. And I'm not trying to shoehorn anything, I get that individual components take place in context and not a vacuum. The OP's proposition wouldn't be the end-all fix to Destiny's Crucible. And the total fixes don't have to make the game a Destiny-skinned Halo. You can keep the weapon variety (I'd argue that the primary/special/heavy mix is a mess and eliminates a massive chunk of the complexity and depth Halo's two weapon system had, but that's a different discussion), I don't see a constant stream of heavy weapon use to be critical in maintaining the weapon sandbox. I don't even think the variety of space-magics abilities need to be eliminated, though they sure could use some rebalancing. Having one heavy weapon spawn in a neutral location does not break down that system. It eliminates one space-magics tool from a team's disposal at a given time, and frankly I'd call that a benefit, not a cost. And the benefits of that neutral location/single drop for gameplay and map flow outweigh the costs of one team feeling sad that they're special snowflake status has been revoked for a few minutes. I just don't see how having one team get heavy ammo and another team without creates a "same bland experience for everyone," well, unless you never get to the heavy ammo and chew rockets every round. On the contrary, gift-wrapping a heavy ammo box safely in each team's spawn sure does seem to create a bland experience for everyone. A pretty bland experience is Destiny's current status as an Oprah Winfrey crowd gift bag, everybody-gets-a-heavy! Having to actually fight for the location of the heavy ammo, then getting to enjoy the spoils when you've won that encounter or scrambling to recover when you've lost that battle sure seems to be a far more dynamic experience. Unless you've just been so conditioned to Destiny's gift-wrapping, which the game sure does seem to try and push in every instance. Which is fine. Plenty of Bungie's choices with this game reek of accessibility. Hell, it's incentivized in their contract for shit's sake. But they've made better before, and plenty of us would like to see them return to great game design.

No, he lost because he obviously can not AD4P7 K1D like a pro. Kids these days....

and don't forget the Sriracha... - Der

I'm legitimately fascinated by your response. What I'm proposing is intended to make the game more interesting, to make it a richer, deeper, more fulfilling experience. It's already extremely watered down, IMO.