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3/23/2015 5:14:52 PM
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I've posted several similar ideas and I would recommend trying to separate your thoughts on what the problems are with your ideas on what the solutions are. Some examples: [b]The Shotgun Issue[/b] I agree there is an issue with shotguns, but you don't really specify or try to specify what that issue is, and instead, you jump right into ideas on how to fix it... without really stating what the problem is. And so when you suggest something like changing the slide mechanic because of shotguns, this oversteps the issue. Slide is awesome. I don't use it with my playstyle, but slide is a great movement mechanic that works well. One of the things i LOVE about Destiny is the verticality to the game with all the various jump / glide / blink mechanics, the slide mechanic, and the differences in elevation with the levels. Slide is great. To somehow diminish how great it is because of 1 weapon seems like overkill to me. I hate shotguns, but I don't have a problem with shotguns as a weapon class, I have a problem with a couple of combinations of shotgun perks. Shotguns, as a class, are fine. Perks and/or combinations of perks need to be addressed (for all weapons). Now that you can reroll perks on IB weapons, this issue for all weapons is only going to get exasperated. [b]Map Design[/b] Map design could be better, but the players have kind of spoken with regards to the bigger / wide open maps.... they don't prefer / play them. That being said, when I play maps with vehicles that are more wide open, you may has well replace every shotgun with a sniper rifle. Does that make sniper rifles OP? Are shotguns underperforming? [b]Back to Shotguns[/b] So for me... the issue with shotguns is certain combinations of perks allow them to be used outside of their intended scenarios. There is no reason to use a Fusion Rifle any more if you have a Shotgun. And to fix this is tricky. We could fix the perks maybe.... but that WILL create issues on shotguns that don't have combinations of perks. For example, if you nerf Shot Package, that will nerf all shotguns with Shot Package but should Shot Package be nerfed across the board or only on shotguns that ALSO have range-improving perks? It gets tricky. I think the radar also plays a part into the effectiveness of shotguns. I think certain movement mechanics like blink and slide do as well. I love blink, but being able to shoot people before you even completely materialize (on their screen) is silly. Maybe remove the ability to aim down sites on shotguns... and change up any perks that have advantages when doing so? There are lots of possible solutions, but the first thing to do is to: 1) Identify the problem 2) Agree there is a problem 3) Talk about all the elements in the game that lend to that problem 4) And THEN discuss ways to address those elements [b]Supers[/b] In general, the supers are not balanced and you've mentioned several ways that they aren't. My PvP main lately has been my Gunslinger. Golden Gun is, without a doubt, the best or one of the best, supers in the game. It can cancel bubble. It can cancel bladedancer. It is 1-hit ranged. With some of the perks, you don't even have to hit the person... you can hit something near them. That being said, there are other supers that are probably MORE annoying than Golden Gun despite maybe not resulting in as many kills.... Fist of Havoc being one of them. So yea, I think Golden Gun is VERY effective, but it is also very counterable and has some built-in limitations to limit the "cheese factor" of it. In my opinion, nothing is more cheezy than many of the things you mentioned... like Fist of Havoc. If I were to redesign supers and specials, in general, I would go into it with a few guiding principles: 1) Supers should feel fun, skilled, empowering, and rewarding as the person wielding them 2) Supers should not feel hopeless, frustrating, or generally unavoidable as the victim of them 3) The Supers should all have a sort of rock, paper, scissors balancing act in terms of how they interact, counter, and impact each other I'm not saying we should do ALL of these, but here are some things that fit into that: 1) Providing some visual / audio cues to players who have their super available 2) Adding a short spin-up time to several supers on activation... similar to Golden Gun. Something that alerts users to use more caution, equip a different weapon, pop their own super, run away, etc. 3) Rethink any supers that have outrageous auto-aim or invulnerability-like mechanics 4) Make bubble immune to some supers (like golden gun and nova bomb, but maybe not blade dancer or FoH). Right now, Bubble is the super that is counterable by almost every other super... its like this super that is really good at getting other people to burn their super, but then doesn't really do what it is supposed to do... which is provide a near impenetrable shield of protection. Another possibility might be to make it immune to all damage, but limit the timer on it SEVERELY (in PvP only) [b]Bubble Village[/b] I've yet to see this used against me, but that doesn't mean I think it is okay. I know people say, "good tactics" or whatever, but imagine if Destiny WERE some sort of fair, balanced, competitive e-sports game. This is a tactic that would quickly become the makeup of EVERY team's offensive and defensive strategy. Soon, the game wouldn't be about getting a good mix of classes, subclasses, weapon types, etc... it would be about every team fielding the same setup. THIS is the definition of OP in my book and it should be addressed. I'm all for 'tactics', but not at the expense of all other tactics. This isn't a tactic, this is an unfortunate and unforeseen side effect of several factors coming together to create an imbalance. [b]Sticky Grenades[/b] I'm fine with these, personally. They MIGHT be an issue, but they would rank sooooo low on my list of priorities. [b]Rewards[/b] Agreed. PvP rewards are pretty atrocious.... although I will say the latest Iron Banner seems to have been much better in terms of drop frequency, ships, exotics, etc. I saw SEVERAL items drop during this IB... and not just for me, but in general. In 1 week, I saw 5 exotics, 4-5 legendary IB weapons, countless ships, etc. If regular Crucible was that good that often, I'd be willing to make this a lower priority. [b]Matchmaking & Ranking[/b] Agreed. I think FORCING a team shuffle whenever there is a lopsided victory is one of the silliest and dumbest ideas ever. Why? 1) It doesn't save anyone any time... except for the 5-8 seconds it takes to hold the triangle button and do this yourself manually 2) It doesn't give people like me (who enjoy challenges) the ability to do a rematch against a bunch of people teamed up 3) Being dumped into a lopsided match midway through, coupled with this enforced reshuffling, just makes an already frustratingly long wait time between matches even longer. i.e. Get beat badly, forced reshuffle / loading / finding, dumped into match midway.... which was only possible because some team was getting creamed and they left... which means the score will again be lopsided, which means again you'll be forced to reshuffle... which means there is the possibility (again) to be dumped into a match midway... Until they add a ranking system, they MUST remove the forced reshuffle of players. Instead, they should be ADDING an incentive for players to NOT quit... similar to what they did with IB. Maybe even tie this into the rewards system. Every match you DONT BACKUP, you get an increased legendary / exotic loot chance. And once you find an exotic / legendary or backout, it resets. [b]Performance & Lag[/b] Agreed. It is atrocious. This, coupled with a lack of private / ranked servers, are the 2 biggest things that will hold Crucible back from ever being played as much as it should. [b]Snipers[/b] Not sure I agree. I haven't seen Last Round abused THAT much. I have an Efrideet's Spear with Last Round. Maybe the solution is to limit secondary ammo and this problem goes away, but I'm not sure there is really a problem. I would NEVER just empty 2 rounds to get to last round. Maybe people are doing this in Skirmish because there is always this "short rest period" that can be used to safely go get more secondary ammo? As for flinching, not sure I understand. I flinch ALL the time when sniping... even with "no flinch" perks. It is frustrating. If there is some trick, I haven't figured it out and I'd like to think I'm pretty good at PvP :) [b]Auto Rifles[/b] Agreed.... maybe. Pulse Rifles got a boost. Lots of people using them. Hand Cannons are still good (but need skill) so lots of people using them. I haven't even TRIED to use an AR so I can't comment. But if ARs are noticeably weaker than PRs and HCs, then yea... I agree. I think there may have been too many changes at once. Maybe the boost to PRs was enough... see how that pans out and THEN nerf ARs if needed. [b]Hand Cannons[/b] These need their own reply (running out of space)
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  • I forgot the chapter about rewards. Iron banner is a different thing. Once you reach rank 3 you have high chances to loot the spaceships and the weapons he sold last time. But the normal loot for crucible is just poor in every curcible match including iron banner.

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  • Ok now here i am... I agree i am short with explaining. But the space is short and i wanted to mention as much as possible and didnt want to make several postings. So thats the trade off. But you are right. Maybe it would be better to explain some more. [quote]Snipers As for flinching, not sure I understand. I flinch ALL the time when sniping... even with "no flinch" perks. It is frustrating. If there is some trick, I haven't figured it out and I'd like to think I'm pretty good at PvP :)[/quote] The thing witch the flinching is that it is shown on your screen, but sometimes the aim will remain where it was. So basically just pull the trigger and see if you can get of that headshot. Does not work allways, but often enough. Thats why i think the scope should be cancelled instead of flinching. Thats one of the parts i liked most in halo pvp because it was a proper way to defend against snipe campers. And yes i think last round will not be an issue any longe if they decrease secondary ammo. [quote]Until they add a ranking system, they MUST remove the forced reshuffle of players. Instead, they should be ADDING an incentive for players to NOT quit... similar to what they did with IB. Maybe even tie this into the rewards system. Every match you DONT BACKUP, you get an increased legendary / exotic loot chance. And once you find an exotic / legendary or backout, it resets.[/quote] That would be the better option. Didnt think about that. In halo, again, you recieved a timeout for matchmaking after several quits in a short time and got more rewards when you finished most games in a row. [quote]Map Design Map design could be better, but the players have kind of spoken with regards to the bigger / wide open maps.... they don't prefer / play them. That being said, when I play maps with vehicles that are more wide open, you may has well replace every shotgun with a sniper rifle. Does that make sniper rifles OP? Are shotguns underperforming?[/quote] No no :D The map variety is needed to make more weapons viable in more situations. Bigger maps are better for scouts and snipers in general. So players would take a moment to think wich one to choose and dont only rely on their shotguns because they are viable everywhere. And about shotguns and slide... I use a shotgun myself most times in my secondary slot. Thats why i know there are ways to counter slide and a shotgun slide. But its tricky to perform. Everyone claiming something else has to be god or is not honest. The slide is great mechanic. I agree. But its too long. And its nowhere difficult to aim once u get used to that. Again... i do it myself and know what can be done with that. And i still want to have a change. On the other hand i am fine with shotguns and the perks. I disagree with the perks making them op or anything. from my point of view the problem lies in the map design, wich atm makes shotguns viable everywhere due to the most encounters are in very close range. I am fine with the most supers in general. They are all effective if u can use them. But the things i pointed out above seem to be unfair from my point of view. Panic fist is effective, but requires to be close. Golden gun is effective but very vulnerable. Thats nothing i complain about. I complain on the one fact that shooting someone out of havoc fist leaves him with the super after revive. Shooting someone out of the activation of golden gun is far more easy and leaves no super energy behind in 99%.

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  • Shot guns are now more of a problem then before the patch because they nerfed auto rifles and fusion rifles. These were the main two guns to give someone pause before shotgun charging. Without either of these two guns on the field anymore, TLW is really the only thing you have to worry about when running with a shotty. Bring ar's and fusion rifles back and the shotgun problem will go away. SR and PR are usually too slow to drop a shotgun runner at close range, where is the only place you "should" encounter them, if they are smart. So, without mid / short range weapons to drop them, they kinda get a free pass. The other problem is that shotguns spread too much at close range, and this actually makes them OP, the shot pattern is unrealistically large and makes the gun far too forgiving. You can't miss at point blank range... At point blank range, a real shotgun's choke pattern is really not much larger than a ping pong ball, in destiny its the size of a beach ball... In game, hitting someone with a shot gun at point blank range should be about as difficult as hitting them with a any other gun. It's simply too easy to hit someone with a shotty when not ADS. If someone is standing anywhere remotely in front of you, just pull the trigger and you get a hit. This needs to be adjusted to actually require more precise aiming. Also the patch made fusion rifles completely obsolete in BOTH PvP and PvE! This needs adjusting. With the massive amount of damage a shotgun now does in PvE, there is no reason to ever use a FR again... Making the entire class completely useless. WHY BUNGIE? WHY! The FR was pretty much the only unique / futuristic gun in the game, and now it's useless. There is literally notihng you can do with the fusion rifle that the shotty can't do but better.

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  • Good points but I disagree with shotguns being popular somewhat because of AR and FR nerfs. HCs have fastest TTK in game with the exception of 1-hit kill things like sniper headshots. They have always been faster than ARs and even they are ineffective. Whether there were other nerfs or not, Shotguns with certain perk combinations would still be overused.

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  • You are right about hand cannons, they are faster. But they are less forgiving at close range, up close targets are quick moving and more difficult to track, with full auto, you can miss a few and still take players down, a hand cannon will kill faster, but in a shotgun charge, you only have to miss once or twice and you are done. So, technically they are faster, but also more difficult in general to use in that situation. Risk / Reward... If the average auto rifle user was good enough to reliably land 3 crits with a HC most of the time, they wouldn't likely be an Auto Rifle user. Players can "like" a gun, and "like" using it, but in crucible, they usually end up reverting back to what they play best with, not what they "like" the most. I love my hawkmoon, i'll dick around with other guns all the time, but when push comes to shove, if I'm losing, the hawkmoon, felwinters, and corrective measure come out because those are what I play best with. Most players used suros pre patch, now most of them use TLW. As a shotgun user myself, i've noticed that post patch, It's a lot easier to stay alive with all the Suros's gone, TLW is the only gun that gives me a real challenge in close range. Before, I got killed by Suros or other high impact AR's a lot when trying to run people down with the shotty, now it almost never happens.

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  • Oh wow... a great answer. I am at work right now but will read it completely when im at home. But one thing i can tell right away... my original posting was about 1/3 longer but there just not enough space to explain everything completely :-(

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