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#feedback

Edited by MolestedMoose80: 3/5/2015 8:15:54 PM
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Inferno. why it doesn't promote team play and is terrible step for the crucible.

[b]Edit: this has been posted on the destiny reddit if you would rather post on there. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2y23cf/inferno_why_it_doesnt_promote_team_play_and_is/[/url][/b] Instead of making a Huge Article about why Inferno is a step in a bad direction for Crucible. I'm just going to make statement about things and who they are counter intuitive for what bungie says inferno is suppose to be. Inferno is suppose to promote 2 things, Gunplay and Teamwork. Unfortunately the way inferno is set up not only does not help the game of ether of these, but is many ways make the game worse. [u][b]two main changes cause this to happen [/b][/u] •the removal of assist • the removal of radar [u]first all cover the removal of Assist scoring [/u] Assist scoring is what drives Teamwork is standard Crucible. There are may ways to grab assist, from getting kills, to using the Sunsinger's "Song of Flame" to reduce the CD of your allies Abilities. In standard Crucible. These assist would give you point so you feel rewarded for helping you team. Unfortunately all of this is removed in Infernos " simplified scoring". You may still get the assist, but even if you get 50 +assists, you will always be in the bottom of the leader board and to most people seem like dead weight( even tho in reality you helping you team more then the Average solo players). Those removal of all rewards from helping you teammates forcing players out of Build that would be best for teamwork and in turn lowers the over all teamwork that would be achieved. [u][i][b]TL; DR : The removal of assist scoring removes the reward for using team based abilities and build causing players to use less team based build and punishing players for using team / assist centric builds. Lowering teamwork and team play. [/b][/i][/u] [u]Next I'm going to talk about how the Remove the radar removes the reward for successful planning and Map knowledge and promotes camping.[/u] Being a player who was with bungie back in its halo years. I'm very familiar with there MLG, swat and "pro" playlist that remove Radar. let me Start out with saying that i have NEVER been a fan of the idea of removing radar. what people fail to understand about Radar ( especially is destiny ) is that even if it serves in a motion sensor in most game. It's what games use to replace the ability to Hear players and be able to decide where they were coming from. back when Radars were first implemented. directional hearing in games was not posable. Radar is suppose to be what you hear. destiny radar is a great example of this. that way destiny radar works is in IMHO is the best radar he have had in games in a long time. it works in giving you a general area of where the person is. Then using Map knowledge and Logic you and figure out where a player is. Now, before you say " but we have directional Hearing now, we don't need radar anymore." let me explain why the flaws with only having directional hearing ATM. Currently there are only 2 ways to take full advantage of Directional hearing. Using an Expensive pair of Stereo noise canceling Headphones or using a surround sounds system. unless you have one of these in use. its extremely hard to tell the direction of sounds in game. Also with the removal of Radar Camping now has once again become a viable option when it comes to kills. even when you check a corner your most likely jus tot get killed by a Shotgun since they are already waiting to kill you. [u][i][b]TL: DR No radar lowers gunplay and promoting Camping and also does removes the ability to plan out your fights and achieve a high lvl of Gunplay skill. [/b][/i][/u] feel free to discuss before

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  • Your points are well noted and you make a reasonable argument but I tend to have a different outlook on Inferno. I spent a few days doing Inferno and having 3 to 4 (even 2) makes a considerable difference. Despite not making points for assist they hold just as much value as in regular crucible. Not being directly rewarded with points does not make them worthless. When doing a proper switch out if the first shooter has injured the enemy and as a result you kill said enemy you are rewarded with the kill. It still puts points on the board. But not as many. It's not about individual scoring more as a collaborative effort to take down enemies. Inferno has improved my playing style as well. I have learned the importance of clearing corners. Switching my grenade type to injure and locate enemies rather then kill them. Being incredibly self conscious of where I am on the map. It has had taught me immediately re spawning is not allows the best move. It helps to stay there and tell your team where/what is going on around them. There are so many aspect of pvp I have missed or just been lazy about because of the radar above me. I am not all about it but it Is rush. Going on a xx kill streak in inferno is awesome. And I never would have been able to do that if not for my team, saving me, adding in a switch out, letting me know a golden gun or a blade dancer is coming. Telling me that there is a player hidden in the corner of B with a shotty. I was very surprised that the camping was not nearly as bad as I aspected. In fact I noticed it even more in regular control. Maybe that was just today.

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  • Removing the radar just shows who is skilled, and who can see little red dots and charge at them with a shotgun

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  • Am a noob in pvp i kill steal and i love it makes all the shit player feel good again. If you are looking for a fair crusiable than go and do some rumble etc..

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      I agree with your points. If I could hear people more easily, I wouldn't be so bothered. The radar was also useful for detecting allies; during Inferno, there are some points where I can't tell if two people look alike because sometimes the opposing player didn't immediately shoot. I think they may need to redesign the way the score is decided. If someone took down 80% of someone's health and I take out the remaining 20%, I should not be the only one rewarded with that kill. Even if it's listed as an [i]Assisted Kill[/i] that counts as a kill, which would promote more teamwork. This is especially true if Assisted kills have more points to the killer and the assister.

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      • Why are we all acting like we don't not have a OP shotgun buy now.Yes i know that the Iron Banner shotgun is over powered i have one but hell if you didn't get one that's on you. Why must we always complain about something because you can do your douchebag shit and win a game you campers. God forbid you have to move around and pay attention to what is going on is the game type

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        • Edited by BigBulse: 3/7/2015 4:14:12 PM
          All they need to do is rename it cod or camp mode..... See what happened was Activision took a large dump and had there cod guys bring it over to bungie and demand it be put into destiny's pvp ...

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          • Bump. Hate this mode.

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          • Agreed. Most shooters have taken steps to discourage campers. But this--in combination with invisibility ---is a big step backwards in trying to encourage a mobile game.

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            • Edited by GreyPooponya: 3/8/2015 8:54:58 PM
              Inferno = douche mode basically. I got 17 assists in a game today and that doesn't mean anything? Of course it should! Assists are the most teamwork thing in the game! Of course no radar means camp fest. Sure, camping is more realistic combat in some ways, but it gets old. Large maps like Skyshock can be a chore but vehicles help a lot. Why is nuketown the map of all maps? No camping! Most people want action in these games. Inferno being part of a rotated playlist is fine with me though, I might still even play it, but it just didn't appeal to me. Agreed very much that it is a step in the wrong the direction. Especially the removal of supportive scoring. I'd rather see a non-exotic game mode. I think it would intesify and improve play styles by removing some comfort zone weapons and enhancements.

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            • Seriously? There are people who consider 5.1 to be expensive and rare?

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              • I doubt the Inferno mode was meant to promote teamwork. They went to simplified scoring and removed radar to promote a more "hard core" or "old school" deathmatch feel. I'm surprised they let you play in teams, myself. Perhaps they could refine it by removing assist in "1 vs all" and leaving it for "team vs team."

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                • Meh... I played one game and will play some more tonight. I enjoyed dieing without being aware there was someone right behind me. I had fun. But, I don't take anything seriously. Sooooo yea.

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                  • Keeping it alive

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                  • Edited by Flash aka Dan: 3/7/2015 3:48:58 PM
                    I think this game mode is better for more skilled and more aware people. I come from playing competitive Halo and radar is for people who can't look around the map or make callouts. I am able to go into inferno with 6 people and keep the other team from getting 1,000 points. I am positive that is from team work. You have to team shot and it does not matter if I don't get the points for assists I do not care at all about points, I care about winning "with" my team. Also the post on Reddit has been removed.

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                    • Inferno, why isn't it a PvE event instead of PvP? Because all the PVE'rs need to get their ass on this forum because apparently that's how to get noticed and cry for fixes. 90%+ of this game is PvE and all I see it PvP cries. So sick of easily my favourite game being ruined by the 10% ers, as we called them in the corps. The small 10% get you killed, or kill your favourite game in this case.

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                      • The game mode has promoted the play style Bungie was trying to hamper. All shotguns all the time, these people can now run around the map without the fear of radar and being detected, yeah they may be seen but they just blink away and find somebody else to shoot in the back. Out of the 5 games of inferno I played I was killed by a primary weapon one time, and it was being shot in the back trying to kill a shotgun melee person blinking around.

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                        • Agree

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                        • Edited by GalaxySpider: 3/7/2015 2:29:42 PM
                          Totally agree. Posted two WOT several days ago about this game mode. With no radar it doesn't make any sense. The Destiny Radar is more fair than Halo's (general direction, not a small dot showing your exact position). Also Destiny has really bad sound design when it comes to player movement. Main flaw: no footstep sounds (just like in Halo....). Removing the radar now doesn't make any sense. And the pure fact that Destiny works quite differently than Halo (starting with 3 guns) only promotes shotgun camping. People are literally forced to equip a shotgun on most maps (many are small-mid ranged maps with lots of tight corners and rooms) cauz there is no way to know where your enemies are now. Only thing I like about is the very limited spawn of heavy ammo. I hope that mode dies fast.

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                        • I didn't read your entire rant because I get bored easily from reading people's rants, so I'm just going to go off of what I think your talking about lol. Inferno, was never meant to be team based, look at how it was set up. No Radar, No assists, quick captures. Only on certain maps can teamwork actually come into play. And only in certain situations. The first match I played of inferno was on Shores of time. We had B and C locked down, their team tried sniping B, and while our members on B were distracting the snipers, I was running behind them and wiping them with my lovely Coiled Hiss, and my trusty Felwinter ;P this was a rinse and repeat process, and also an example of teamwork in Inferno. However, in a Following match, set in THE CAULDRON of all places. It was a pretty much what everyone stereotypes the Crucible as, a shotgun fest :P I won't lie, I used my Felwinter a majority of the match. But mine doesn't have rangefinder so it's not as broken as it could be ;P but anyway, as soon as the match started, our team secured a tri-cap in less then 60 seconds. After that, their team could keep up, I was running to every point they attempted to capture, and laid waste to them at every corner (at the expense of a few of my teammates lives I might add) which is an example of how teamwork does not apply in Inferno. So it's not really the game mode, it's really the map setting, and honestly, no matter where you go, it will always be a shotgun fest, not having a radar, invokes too much fear and hesitation in players, you never know whats going to be waiting around the corner so you always want to be prepared ;P

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                          • Edited by III URBAN III: 3/6/2015 6:30:31 PM
                            Gamemode is shit I thought they were getting rid of specials?! I'm not too bad at the game I believe I have a pretty honest KD across all characters but I can't stand the PVP now. All I see is Felwinters lie, Thorn, Blink, Golden Gun, Blade Dancer and -blam!-ing Sunsingers spamming those bullshit fusion grenades that you can't get away from Couldn't really GAF what people say on these forums with their 0.90-1.30 KDs. I know that if I'm getting shot at range by that fûcking cünting handcannon and dying before I can move in every single game because it's over effectiveness is obvious to even the most potato brained person that plays, then it's broken and unfair in comparison to the other primary weapons

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                            • Then play normal control... You are not made for inferno.

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                              • Edited by xnbkcbc: 3/5/2015 8:13:50 PM
                                I agree with most of what you said (and all of the score "simplification", it was the first thing I thought of when I played it), but most people probably are playing hooked up to a 5.1 sound system. At least there isn't music played during Crucible. Honestly, I think it is a head-scratcher as to why they made Inferno a team mode. It's better suited for free-for-all.

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