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1/17/2005 4:25:56 AM
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Humans are NOT descendants of the Forerunners, they were CREATED BY them.
I've been seeing that a lot of people have been saying that Humans are descendant from the Forerunners from some Forerunner colony built on Earth. If this were true then 343 Guilty Spark would have said that Halo destroyed all sentient life in the Galaxy except on the Ark. What he said is that Halo destroyed ALL sentient life within 3 radii of the galactic center. This means that there is no way in hell humans can be the descendants of the Forerunners.
Now does that mean that Humans are not connected to the Forerunners? Absolutely not! I think that Humans were created BY, not descendant from, the Forerunners. Here's some evidence for my theory. First of all, Regret didn't know that Humans were on Earth. He probably found the location of Earth using coordinates provided by another Forerunner artifact in his possession. This artifact probably told him that the Ark would produce a map telling him the location of other Halos, which was why he jumped straight to another Halo from within the city. It's also why he was so obsessed on landing on Earth to find that artifact, completely ignoring the orbital defenses. It also explains why he wasn't expecting the Ark to be the Human homeworld. Indeed, Humans did not exist at the time that the artifact was made, nor the covenant species for that matter.
I think that the Forerunners created Humans so that after the Halos activated, sentient life would repopulate the Galaxy, and not all would be lost. At first I said that Humans were genetically engineered, but it would be better to say that Humans were evolutionary engineered. Since the Forerunner's creations couldn't exist during the activation of the rings, the Forerunners needed to find a way for their creations (humans) to be made AFTER the rings went off. So, the Forerunners found a way to manipulate the wildlife of Earth so that humans would naturally evolve into being after all other sentient life was wiped off the face of the Galaxy.
How they did it would depend on when the Rings were actually activated, and this I don't know. It could have happened 65 million years ago. The Forerunners could have prompted the death of the Dinosaurs paving the way for conditions to exist that would allow Humans to evolve eventually. They could have done it 3 million years ago using apes as carriers for their evolutionary genetic code so that humans would evolve from them. However, I think these events happened 250,000 years ago, when the first -blam!- sapiens appeared in East Africa in what is now called Kenya. The reason I think this is because hominids like Australopethicus afarensis (Lucy) evolved in Southern Africa, while -blam!- sapiens evolved in East Africa. 250,000 years ago, there were several Human species already in existence: -blam!- Hidelbreginsis, -blam!- neanderthal, and even -blam!- erectus. Some of these humans were nearly as intelligent as modern humans (Neanderthal had the same size brain case), but they were not sentient and I'll tell you why.
The strangest thing about the "near" humans such as Neanderthal, Erectus and Hidelbreginsis, is that they didn't seem to have any creativity. They all inhabited the Earth for half a million years of more, but the technology level they had when they became extinct is about the same as when they appeared. No new stone weapons or innovations. Like a bird building its nest, they made the tools they had out of instinct, not intuition. If they learned new things, like how to control fire, it was by accident and not design. -blam!- sapiens, however, had the ability to envision things that he had never seen before, or didn't even exist. This allowed -blam!- sapiens to invent new tools by just thinking about it, or create new structures, or even envision places, like the afterlife. They could even create music and art and stories. None of this could any of the other human species do, as intelligent as they were.
I think that the Forerunners built a device deep underneath East Africa, which would activate after the Halos went off. What it would do is inject some sort of genetic information into a nearby -blam!- hidelbreginsis, allowing her offspring to be born as fully developed Humans that we would recognize.
THE SECOND REASON FOR HALO
When I first played Halo, I thought it was strange that the environments were exactly like Earth's with pine trees and green grass. I just brushed it off as sci-fi fodder. In real life, life on an alien world would be unrecognizable to Earth's. Now I realize that the devs made the environments on Halo look like Earth's for a reason. I believe the Halos were also experimental testbeds for their evolutionary engineering. They wanted to make sure that Humans would evolve after the Halos were triggered. I think they succeeded and that Humans evolved on the Halos as well.
On Delta Halo, Cortana mentioned that the Forerunners seem to have built newer structures around the older ones, to protect them, honor them. In the first Halo, I always wondered why a space-faring civilization would build a world-size metallic ring, and then build primitive-looking stone structures on them. The reason for this is that these structures were not built by the Forerunners, but by their evolutionary engineered sentient expiraments (we might call them humans, although they are not our ancestors). The Forerunners knew that if the rings were activated, their experiments would also die. At some point, after their creations had started developing an advanced civilization, the Forerunners realized that they could not defeat the Flood, and that they would be forced to activate the rings one day. So, they contacted their creations, told them that they created them, and told them their fate. Then the Forerunners built their own structures around the ones created by humans to preserve them from time. This way when the real humans became a space-faring civilization and happened upon these ruins, they would still be intact, and they could reclaim them. Which is why the humans are called the "reclaimers".
HUMANS ARE NOT THE ONLY THINGS CREATED BY THE FORERUNNERS
Gravemind said that he is a monument to all of our sins. This makes me believe that the Forerunners created him or the Flood, probably as a biological warfare agent. At some point, the Forerunners were either at war with themselves, or another alien race. They created the Flood to combat them. I suspect, that the Flood originally were designed to infect members of the alien race they were at war with, but it later mutated to have the ability to infect any sentient host. Thus, they created the Halos as a last resort against the Flood, and Humans to repopulate the galaxy. However, I think the Forerunners thought of the Flood as nothing more than mindless beasts, with no consciousness. They did not know of or envision the existences of Gravemind or beings like him. Which was why they could never defeat the Flood.
I've also wondered why, after going through all the trouble of making humans, did other sentient beings pop up after the activation of Halo anyway? Did they evolve naturally, or did the forerunners create them as well? Perhaps when the Forerunners were looking for species to be candidates for their evolutionary engineering, they used the ancestors of the Elites, Prophets, Grunts, etc., but found them inadequate. After the activation of the rings, some of whatever they were using to evolutionary engineer creatures got loose and caused species all over the galaxy to crash evolve into sentience.
This explains why the Prophets and Elites evolved so near Forerunner ruins and why their technology is so dependent on their understanding of Forerunner artifacts. This also may be why the Covenant think that activating the rings would send them on a Great Journey because when they discovered their first Forerunner artifacts, they lacked the capacity to understand destruction on a Galactic scale. So, the Monitors explained it to them the way a mother would explain death to an innocent child. Because they are accidents and not deliberately created by the Forerunners, Monitors don't recognize them as Reclaimers. I also believe that the lack of Forerunner ruins near Earth can be explained by the fact that the Forerunners probably wanted the Reclaimers to develop their thoughts, beliefs, civilization, and technology naturally without foreign interference, which unwittingly put us a technological disadvantage in our war against the Forerunners "accidents."
[Edited on 1/17/2005 4:12:03 AM]
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there are alot of hidden messages in halo, you need to read between the lines. Think back to the bible when there was a huge flood and everything was destroyed, an ark was made. Plus guilty spark in the first halo refurrs to the information stored on the pillar of autum as his lost history, he is a forrunner creation. He also recognizes you, i could go on and on for for a while about things the directly point to humans being the forrunners.
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This is interesting...very interesting. It makes a lot of sense, but I kinda got lost towards the end. But it's a good theory. But one thing i don't quite agree with is the thing about injecting genetic information into a nearby -blam!- hidelbreginsis. that is quite far fetched, i mean, how do they actually go about doing that... anyway, i like your theory still.
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Ok i think the flood were the exsperements, except they went wild and got on controlleble, as in halo 1 343 says that a few were kept for exsperements when the rings were activated the first time
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nunzA 343GS recognizes the Chief as a reclaimer. There is something familiar that Spark recognizes. For one thing the Chief is human. The human/forerunner connection is open to interpretation, but whatever it may be one thing is certian. 343GS along with 2401PT recognizes only humans as reclaimers. This means humans must have some connection to the Forerunner either in appearence, similar DNA, or something else. 343GS also recognizes the Chiefs Mjolnir armor. Spark says that it is a class 2 combat skin and that he needs at least a class 12 to combat the flood. This means the Forerunners had similar armor. This can be proven because the Covenant reverse engineered Forerunner technology to create their weapons and technology. The Mjolnir Mark V armor was made to be better than the Elites armor and energy shield. It is important to note that 343GS does not find any of the Covenant races familiar. Spark calls them meddlers and asks why they use such terminology as "oracle" and "great journey". The Covenant are Foreign to the Monitors, but humans are not. [/quote] A very good point, nunzA. I'm going to do more research into this topic. I've beaten Halo 2 on Legendary, and am halfway through beating it again on Legendary. But before I do finish, I'm going to pick up old Halo CE and beat it for the first time on Legendary. I'll play close attention to the cutscenes and then make further comments from there. In the meantime, I have recieved a request from PMSboy to post this theory on another forum made by the great Halo theoretician Eagle 117 at his site, The Watchers. PMSboy had actually posted it without my permission (which doesn't bother me), but Eagle 117 removed the post and wanted me to PM him with my permission before he posted it again. I'm going to go one step further and post it there personally myself. Here's a link to it the site: http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/4347/Group/GroupHome.aspx I haven't posted it yet, but it will be posted in a few minutes. It's a smaller forum so you shouldn't have to bother with scrolling through the forums to look for this one as much. Go there to discuss this theory if you wish.
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awsome thought G
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I agree mostly with your creation theory. Bungie has given several obvious hints regarding the human-forerunner connection (we know where the humans ultimately came from...) http://maphawk.ontv.com/utfoo/curiouser/%5B05%5DMetropolis/mtang.htm Interesting, no? There is more Swahili heard on the loudspeakers in New Mombasa as well, but I have not come across a translation yet. [Edited on 1/22/2005 10:04:16 AM]
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343GS recognizes the Chief as a reclaimer. There is something familiar that Spark recognizes. For one thing the Chief is human. The human/forerunner connection is open to interpretation, but whatever it may be one thing is certian. 343GS along with 2401PT recognizes only humans as reclaimers. This means humans must have some connection to the Forerunner either in appearence, similar DNA, or something else. 343GS also recognizes the Chiefs Mjolnir armor. Spark says that it is a class 2 combat skin and that he needs at least a class 12 to combat the flood. This means the Forerunners had similar armor. This can be proven because the Covenant reverse engineered Forerunner technology to create their weapons and technology. The Mjolnir Mark V armor was made to be better than the Elites armor and energy shield. It is important to note that 343GS does not find any of the Covenant races familiar. Spark calls them meddlers and asks why they use such terminology as "oracle" and "great journey". The Covenant are Foreign to the Monitors, but humans are not.
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[quote]1. 343 GS didn't know that the Forerunners had set up a race to rise many years later and retake the Halos, so he MUST have thought the Chief was someone else, a Reclaimer, who should have known the purpose of the Halos.[/quote] If this is true, the Chief must have looked like someone GS recognised, so who was it? What was the last race it saw? It was the Forerunners. So, if no 1 is true, the Chief looks like a Forerunner, which is why i think no 2 is true, and he recognises the Chief for a different reason entirely.
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The main problem I see with this theory is that it is not in line with 343 Guilty Spark's comments in Halo 1. Just after Cortana stops Halo being activated, GS says "Technically, this installation's pulse ... yada yada yada. But you already knew that. How couldn't you?" If humans were the creations of Forerunners intended to rise hundreds of thousands of years after the Halos were activated, it's a pretty sure bet that GS knew about this. In that case, he wouldn't have expected the Chief, who he clearly recognised as a Reclaimer, to know Halo's true purpose. But he did expect the Reclaimer to know its purpose, which means either : 1. 343 GS didn't know that the Forerunners had set up a race to rise many years later and retake the Halos, so he MUST have thought the Chief was someone else, a Reclaimer, who should have known the purpose of the Halos. 2. The Forerunners didn't set up a race to rise many years later and retake the Halos. If this is true, how does he recognise the Chief as a Reclaimer? What is a Reclaimer? Either way we don't know an awful lot. [Edited on 1/22/2005 8:32:16 AM]
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i think us humans are evolution from molecules after the halos went off the first time. its just evolution and we are making the same mastake as the forefunners did and now we have to stop the flood as the forerunners did. in HALO 1 guilty spark says that the blast will only kill any living thing with sufficiant bio mass.
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very well thought out theory, i have just a couple of reservations with it however. 343 GS says to the MC in Halo 1 " why do YOU hesitate to do what YOU have already done?" Now either there is some time travel involved or 343 is recognising The MC as the race that activated the Halo's in the first place. Also the very word "Reclaimer" says to me that we are taking back what is ours. We being the human race, as we are the only ones who can be reclaimers. so i need a little more convincing ;)
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Yeah, I see that most of our theories are pretty similar, but the little details are where we come afoul a bit. As for nunzA, the only reason I would disagree with the whole clones thing is because -blam!- sapiens looks almost exactly like our prececessors, -blam!- hidelbregensis. Let me try to explain. Species like Austalopithices afarensis could stand upright, and might have been our ancestors, but they were more like apes than humans. In fact, they are classifies as apes. However, all of the other species whose names start with -blam!- such as -blam!- ergaster, -blam!- erectus, and -blam!- hidelbreginses are classified as being humans. Not ape-like humans, but humans, just a different species of human, that's all. This is hard for people to understand because in the past these beings have been portrayed as being apelike instead of being more human. But now we know that they are all, in fact human, and scientist refer to them as people. The only exception to this is -blam!- habilis which scientist are considering renaming because habilis appears to be more like an advanced Australopithecus than a Human. So, of course, this means that human species have been existing on the Earth for over a million years. And if the events on Halo only happened 100,000 years ago, then that means that humans are not physical clones of the Forerunners, only clones as in how we think. But if the events happened over a million years ago, then humans may be physical clones of the Forerunners as well. Again it all depends on when the events happened on Halo. As for what FyreHeart said. You know, that's a good idea. To tell you the truth, the existence of the Covenant species are a mystery to me. Why would the Forerunners go through all the trouble of creating humans when other sentient species evolved so quickly after the activation of the Haloes anyway? What you said has a good point, but I'm still not convinced that the Forerunners intentionally created them, or they would have been given "Reclaimer" status. The whole idea that they were created by another force we have yet to encounter in the series seems a lot more plausable. But for this one, I think we'll have to wait for Halo 3 to make heads or tails with this one. However, as great as Forerunner technology is, I don't think they were capable of traveling that far outside of our galaxy. Three radii is a long way, they would have to travel 300 thousand light years OUTSIDE of the galaxy to even be safe from the effects of the Haloes. So, no, I'm pretty confident that every singe last one of the Forerunners died. No question about that. Also, I think the Ark is a place, not a device. Yes, it had a device embedded in it, namely the device that created humans, but the Ark itself is the Earth. I don't think the Ark is on the Earth, I think it is the Earth. I can tell by the way 343 GS talks about it. He refers to it as one would refer to a place, not a machine. If the Earth (Ark) was capable of shielding the Forerunners, then Humans wouldn't make such a big deal out of preventing the Covenant from activating the Haloes. If humans are safe on the Ark, which protects them from the Haloes, then humans shoud stand off and let the Covenant activate it, because humans are safe on Earth. Obviously, for story line reasons mainly, that can't be the case. It's anti-climactic. Humans are not safe on the Ark, because it can't protect anyone from anything, and that's the reason why all of the Forerunners died. Every last living one of them.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FyreHeart Finallly, one correction: The species killed by the Halos had to have sufficient COGNITIVE mass, not sufficient BIOmass. I.e. they had to be capable of higher brain functions because the Flood feeds off brainwave energy (and apparently calcium, as referenced in the H2 "conversations" booklet.) Sgt. Johnson survived an infection attempt because he has a neurological problem that prevented the Flood from feeding off him. So, I see our theories as complementary, not contratictory.[/quote] 343GS says that a host needs two things in order to be used by the Flood. The host would need sufficient biomass AND need to be sentient. If the host is sentient then we already know they would have sufficient cognitive mass. They also need suffiecient overall biomass in order to be used by the Flood. For example, you don't see any grunt combat forms. Why? Because they are too small. So far we know Humans, Elites, and Prophets can sustain the flood. The Prophets are probably around the same size as the humans. We know Elites are larger than humans so the Flood has no problem feeding on them.
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Now you're misunderstanding me. :<) I'm NOT saying the Covenant were created by the ForeRunners. It seems to me that the ForeRunners would have made some plan to survive the activation of the Halos, otherwise activating the Halos is pointless (see my prev. post about the Flood eating everything and thus killing themselves.) It also seems to me that a race as advanced as the ForeRunners would have felt an ethical obligation to save all the sentient or pre-sentient species they could. THUS, they saved the predecessors to the Covenant species by taking them out of the galaxy in the Ark. They did not CREATE the Covenant species, nor did they SAVE the Covenant species, they merely saved the unevolved forms of them, then replaced them on their respective planets to continue the natural process of evolution. When the various Covenenat species evolved to the forms we see in the games, they would have found themselves surrounded by ForeRunner artifacts, and thus recognized each other as "blessed" by the ForeRunners. Since the Halos (and the Monitors like GS and Penitent Tangent) were created BEFORE their activation (duh) and thus before the ForeRunners rescued the pre-Covenant species, there's no reason the Monitors would recognize the Covenant species as reclaimers. Next: 343GS said the ForeRunners IN THE GALAXY died at the activation of the Halos: true. He ALSO said "I am glad some of them survived to reproduce" when he recognized the MC as a Reclaimer. Again, this reaffirms the Human-ForeRunner connection. So, we know some of the ForeRunners died when the Halos activated. We also know some SURVIVED when the Halos were activated. How? They must have used the Ark to protect themselves somehow. I theorize it was by leaving the galaxy (with the other pre-Covenant species in tow.) Truthfully, my theory doesn't deal with the question of the Human-ForeRunner connection. Were the ForeRunners ancestors, evolved from the same genetic stock, or creators? Doesn't matter to me. Finallly, one correction: The species killed by the Halos had to have sufficient COGNITIVE mass, not sufficient BIOmass. I.e. they had to be capable of higher brain functions because the Flood feeds off brainwave energy (and apparently calcium, as referenced in the H2 "conversations" booklet.) Sgt. Johnson survived an infection attempt because he has a neurological problem that prevented the Flood from feeding off him. So, I see our theories as complementary, not contratictory.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl In option 1, you said that you think the Forerunners implanted DNA or something like that into less evolved species that would allow these species to evolve into modern humans. Well, that's exactly how I think the Forerunners did it, in fact, but because I'm not 100% sure on the exact details I didn't mention that part of my theory in my original post. However, we seem to be disagreeing on the term "descendant." To be a descendant of someone, you have to have been born directly from the flesh from them in a direct line. Even though humans might have a bit of Forerunner DNA, the first humans on Earth weren't born from a mother who was a Forerunner, nor did they have a Forerunner "father." Instead, DNA was injected into them or whatever the Forerunners did to make them into humans. So that means humans are not descendants from the Forerunners, but were created by them, although humans bear some Forerunner DNA. That's why I said we were created by the Forerunners and are not descendant from them, because a lot of people seem to think that the Earth somehow shielded a colony of Forerunners from the affects of the Haloes, and this colony is what humans are descendant from. However, we both agree that it didn't happen like that, I think. I think we both agree that humans were made with a bit a Forerunner DNA and that a process was created by the Forerunners to somehow make the lesser human species to evolve into fully sentient -blam!- sapiens using that DNA.[/quote] Hmmm. I read your theory again and I'll agree that our Ideas are similar. The only difference I can see is that you believe the Forerunners created the Humans by using or altering a pre existing species. I believe you said that they somehow altered the species so that their offspring would come out as human babies. This is the part I don't agree on. I think the Forerunners used their DNA to create exact clones of their race. Who or what the Forerunners may have been is up to you, but I think the Forerunners chose to replicate themselves. You are right in saying that the Forerunner "descendants" did not come directly from the Forerunner in the usualy sense, but scientifically speaking they would be 100% Forerunner. Test tube babies if you will. The Forerunners would have designed their cloning process to take place after the activation of Halo, because it would be obvious that if they did it before hand all of the clones would end up dead. The end result of having modern humans is now open to interpretation. Most likely the cloned Forerunner evolved over time into modern humans.
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[quote] THE SECOND REASON FOR HALO When I first played Halo, I thought it was strange that the environments were exactly like Earth's with pine trees and green grass. I just brushed it off as sci-fi fodder. In real life, life on an alien world would be unrecognizable to Earth's. Now I realize that the devs made the environments on Halo look like Earth's for a reason. I believe the Halos were also experimental testbeds for their evolutionary engineering. They wanted to make sure that Humans would evolve after the Halos were triggered. I think they succeeded and that Humans evolved on the Halos as well. [/quote] Maybe the Flood were accidents during the experimentation with "Humans"? The Spore forms could have been another "Type" of fetus for a Human, but the genetic code wasn't exactly right (This could be why they are referred to as a "Virus" by the monitors). This could explain why the Spores have to take over a host in order to grow; Kind of like a Fetus without a mother, supposedly. The ability to infect ANY higher sentient life could have been a mistake in the Forerunners experimental genetic code, this is why we see Elite Flood. In every Halo game so far, the Flood have stood upright, like Humans. Notice all intelligent life capable of thought and creativity has stood upright; But what about Gravemind? We don't know if it stands upright or not, we'll just have to wait and see. My guess is the Halos all look the same, save a few. The others that weren't of an Oxygen atmosphere could have been the Experiment houses for other species that didn't breathe oxygen, like Grunts for example. Notice how the Monitors refer to the Halo's weapons as "Fail safes", which means they would be used to destroy their experimentations, but why rid the Galaxy of all life? To reduce the risk of exposing their experimentations to other intelligent lifeforms, I guess. The Forerunner could have also used the Halos in order to destroy their experiments once they got the code right for Humans, kinda like an eraser. The Forerunner also seemed very reluctant in destroying their experiments, which could explain the word "Fail Safe". The Monitor also says this "After exhausting every last option..." which further promotes the idea that the Forerunner were reluctant in destroying their experiments, for whatever reason.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nunzA Just to clear things up I'll post my own take on what could have happened with the Forerunners and the Humans. Option 1: The Humans are direct descendants of the Forerunner 100,000 years ago, when the Forerunners discovered that their only option would be to activate the Halos, they could have sampled their own DNA so that one day their race may have another chance at life. Perhaps the Forerunners moved this DNA to Earth, or maybe they put it on the Ark along with a process that would help jump start the "new" Forerunners. After doing this, the Forerunners activate the Rings and all Sentient life within the galaxy perish. Years later the Forerunner DNA would be used to clone the Forerunner race. But this race would be without the technology the Forerunners had. This race could have even evolved further into what we now know as modern human beings. Either way, we would still be descendants of the Forerunner. Option 2: Humans evolve naturally The Forerunners would activate Halo and kill all sentient life, including themselves. The activation of the rings would kill all sentient life with sufficient biomass to sustain the flood on earth. Some species would survive because they did not have sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. Primates, Neanderthals, you name it could have survived because of this. Over the course of time humans would eventually evolve from one of these survivng species. [/quote] In option 1, you said that you think the Forerunners implanted DNA or something like that into less evolved species that would allow these species to evolve into modern humans. Well, that's exactly how I think the Forerunners did it, in fact, but because I'm not 100% sure on the exact details I didn't mention that part of my theory in my original post. However, we seem to be disagreeing on the term "descendant." To be a descendant of someone, you have to have been born directly from the flesh from them in a direct line. Even though humans might have a bit of Forerunner DNA, the first humans on Earth weren't born from a mother who was a Forerunner, nor did they have a Forerunner "father." Instead, DNA was injected into them or whatever the Forerunners did to make them into humans. So that means humans are not descendants from the Forerunners, but were created by them, although humans bear some Forerunner DNA. That's why I said we were created by the Forerunners and are not descendant from them, because a lot of people seem to think that the Earth somehow shielded a colony of Forerunners from the affects of the Haloes, and this colony is what humans are descendant from. However, we both agree that it didn't happen like that, I think. I think we both agree that humans were made with a bit a Forerunner DNA and that a process was created by the Forerunners to somehow make the lesser human species to evolve into fully sentient -blam!- sapiens using that DNA.
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Very nice theory tractrpl thats very similar to my personal theory, but I personally think that the Ark contains a DNA bank of samples from many people of the Forerunner species, enough to create a new civilisation with sufficient genetic diversity to pass off as a normal 'evolved' species. The ark would also contain equipment that could 'grow' the first humans and leave them in the middle of Africa, therefore creating the Human race (or as I call us, the 'New Forerunners'). I think the plan was that Ark would create a new civilisation on Earth every time that the Halo's were activated, therefore each 'New Forerunner' race would have its chance to kill the Flood, and if they failed the Halo rings could be reactivated and it would start over, this would then continue until the Flood were destroyed. So in conclusion of this point, Humans were both Decended from and Created by the Forerunners. Another point, I think that the Flood were first created by the Forerunners in the facility in the atmosphere of Threshold, where you go as the Arbiter to kill the Heretic. In the level commentaries on the Collectors Edition DVD, they state that the labs there are where the Forerunners first encountered the flood. I am currently writing up my theories, and I will post them in full when I finish them. But I won't finish them until I have read all three novels (Dam bookstore taking ages to order them in), so I don't have anything contradictory to the books or in case reading them brings up more theories.
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Just to clear things up I'll post my own take on what could have happened with the Forerunners and the Humans. Option 1: The Humans are direct descendants of the Forerunner 100,000 years ago, when the Forerunners discovered that their only option would be to activate the Halos, they could have sampled their own DNA so that one day their race may have another chance at life. Perhaps the Forerunners moved this DNA to Earth, or maybe they put it on the Ark along with a process that would help jump start the "new" Forerunners. After doing this, the Forerunners activate the Rings and all Sentient life within the galaxy perish. Years later the Forerunner DNA would be used to clone the Forerunner race. But this race would be without the technology the Forerunners had. This race could have even evolved further into what we now know as modern human beings. Either way, we would still be descendants of the Forerunner. Option 2: Humans evolve naturally The Forerunners would activate Halo and kill all sentient life, including themselves. The activation of the rings would kill all sentient life with sufficient biomass to sustain the flood on earth. Some species would survive because they did not have sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. Primates, Neanderthals, you name it could have survived because of this. Over the course of time humans would eventually evolve from one of these survivng species.
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I still maintain that the Forerunners were human, which i base on many things...one of the most prominent being about the Enforcers (big sentinals)...They fire small crystaline projectiles that are fast, have no tracking system, and explode on impact..Sounds kinda like a futureistic bullet to me (and perhaps the Covenant found this ammo and improved upon it to make it slower and home in on prey)...Then the big thing, the other weapon system the Enforcer uses is based on RPG's, the only other species in the known universe that use's rocket proppeled missiles are human's. But...the original posters theory still may have validity (albeit the thought probably crossed many of our minds)..The above facts don't prove or disprove the human-forerunner connection, but they most definatley confirm such a connection.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nunzA There is no evidence to support that humans were created or put on the Rings before the events of Halo: CE. The species of the Covenant have their own homeworlds. The Grunts, for example, lived on a planet with a methane environment. They wouldn't survive living on Halo unless they had their breathing aparatus, which I doubt they would have had some 100,000 years ago.[/quote] I think you misunderstood me. Which happens a lot to me, so I'll try to explain again. I do NOT believe that the Covenant species were created by the Forerunners intentionally. They could have been created accidentally, either by the same devices the Forerunners used to create sentient Humans, or they could have been created intentionally by some force we have yet to encounter in the Halo universe. They also could have evolved naturally, of course, but I find that hard to believe because the Forerunners seem to have put a lot of effort into creating humans. Plus thier advanced technological level suggests that not only were they created at around the same time as Humans, but they had a head start, possibly because of their discovery of Forerunner technology so early in their development. So in short, of course the Covenant weren't on the Haloes 100,000 years ago! They weren't created by the Forerunners after all, not intentionally anyway. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nunzA [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl Therefore, modern humans had to have been created by the Forerunners. And since the Forerunners couldn’t have created humans before the activation of the Haloes, because the Haloes would have killed the Humans they created as well as the Forerunners themselves, we can conclude that the Forerunners left some device that would create or allow the creation of modern humans to occur sometime after the activation of the rings, which was probably the purpose of the Ark.[/quote] I disagree. Modern Humans could have evolved from a lower species over a period of time. When the Forerunners activated the Halos all sentient life with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood would have died. Sentient does not necessarily mean "intelligent", but rather capable to perception or feeling. In the Halo: CE booklet it says Cortana is Sentient, because she can perceive what is going on around her. With that said, we can say that primates would have survived the activation of the Halos. Why would they survive? Because they most likely did not have suffiecient biomass to sustain the Flood. [/quote] Ok, so you're saying you dissagree with me, but you're saying almost exactly what I just said. My original post said that I think that Humans must have been evolutionary engineered from lower species by the Forerunners. Neanderthal and the like would have survived the activation of the Haloes, just as you said, because they were not suffiecently sentient enough. The only thing I disagree with what you said is that Neanderthal and the like definately had enough biomass, since the average Neanderthal, although short at about 4'6", weighed an average of 200 pounds. They were very strong suckers, that extra weight of theirs is nothing but pure muscle. Buta as far as everything else you've just said, you're disagreeing with me, but your words say almost exactly what I just said. All I'm saying is that I think the Forerunners influenced human evolution in someway so that fully sentient Humans would evolve sometime shortly after the activation of the rings, instead of simply evolving from lessor species (please note, we're talking about the storyline here, not real life).[/quote] I understood you completely. The whole point of my response was to show you that the Forerunners did not necessarily need to create OR influence the evolutionary process of humans OR the covenant species. About your comment on the Neanderthal; I am in now way a historian or anything of that sort, but weren't Neanderthals hunters? That would mean they would travel alot for food, probably run alot. Witht hat said, I would assume they were in pretty good shape. Do you have any idea what someone at 4'6'', 200lbs of pure muscle would look like. It would be impossible. It would be like having the shortest bodybuilder in the world on huge amounds of steroids. I agree with the height, but I don't think they were 200 pounds.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nunzA There is no evidence to support that humans were created or put on the Rings before the events of Halo: CE. The species of the Covenant have their own homeworlds. The Grunts, for example, lived on a planet with a methane environment. They wouldn't survive living on Halo unless they had their breathing aparatus, which I doubt they would have had some 100,000 years ago.[/quote] I think you misunderstood me. Which happens a lot to me, so I'll try to explain again. I do NOT believe that the Covenant species were created by the Forerunners intentionally. They could have been created accidentally, either by the same devices the Forerunners used to create sentient Humans, or they could have been created intentionally by some force we have yet to encounter in the Halo universe. They also could have evolved naturally, of course, but I find that hard to believe because the Forerunners seem to have put a lot of effort into creating humans. Plus thier advanced technological level suggests that not only were they created at around the same time as Humans, but they had a head start, possibly because of their discovery of Forerunner technology so early in their development. So in short, of course the Covenant weren't on the Haloes 100,000 years ago! They weren't created by the Forerunners after all, not intentionally anyway. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nunzA [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl Therefore, modern humans had to have been created by the Forerunners. And since the Forerunners couldn’t have created humans before the activation of the Haloes, because the Haloes would have killed the Humans they created as well as the Forerunners themselves, we can conclude that the Forerunners left some device that would create or allow the creation of modern humans to occur sometime after the activation of the rings, which was probably the purpose of the Ark.[/quote] I disagree. Modern Humans could have evolved from a lower species over a period of time. When the Forerunners activated the Halos all sentient life with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood would have died. Sentient does not necessarily mean "intelligent", but rather capable to perception or feeling. In the Halo: CE booklet it says Cortana is Sentient, because she can perceive what is going on around her. With that said, we can say that primates would have survived the activation of the Halos. Why would they survive? Because they most likely did not have suffiecient biomass to sustain the Flood. [/quote] Ok, so you're saying you dissagree with me, but you're saying almost exactly what I just said. My original post said that I think that Humans must have been evolutionary engineered from lower species by the Forerunners. Neanderthal and the like would have survived the activation of the Haloes, just as you said, because they were not suffiecently sentient enough. The only thing I disagree with what you said is that Neanderthal and the like definately had enough biomass, since the average Neanderthal, although short at about 4'6", weighed an average of 200 pounds. They were very strong suckers, that extra weight of theirs is nothing but pure muscle. Buta as far as everything else you've just said, you're disagreeing with me, but your words say almost exactly what I just said. All I'm saying is that I think the Forerunners influenced human evolution in someway so that fully sentient Humans would evolve sometime shortly after the activation of the rings, instead of simply evolving from lessor species (please note, we're talking about the storyline here, not real life).
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl Therefore, modern humans had to have been created by the Forerunners. And since the Forerunners couldn’t have created humans before the activation of the Haloes, because the Haloes would have killed the Humans they created as well as the Forerunners themselves, we can conclude that the Forerunners left some device that would create or allow the creation of modern humans to occur sometime after the activation of the rings, which was probably the purpose of the Ark.[/quote] I disagree. Modern Humans could have evolved from a lower species over a period of time. When the Forerunners activated the Halos all sentient life with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood would have died. Sentient does not necessarily mean "intelligent", but rather capable to perception or feeling. In the Halo: CE booklet it says Cortana is Sentient, because she can perceive what is going on around her. With that said, we can say that primates would have survived the activation of the Halos. Why would they survive? Because they most likely did not have suffiecient biomass to sustain the Flood. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl From all of this, we can also make a correlation that the Forerunners probably tried to test out the Ark to see if it could create sentient humans from the non-sentient subjects. I can say they probably conducted their tests on the Haloes. The primitive stone structures built on the Haloes were probably built by these “test humans,” and the Forerunners probably built the newer structures around them to protect them, so that when the real Humans happened upon them, they could reclaim them. Since the Monitors do not recognize the Covenant species as being Reclaimers, you could say they were probably created by accident by the same devices in the Ark that created the sentient humans.[/quote] There is no evidence to support that humans were created or put on the Rings before the events of Halo: CE. The species of the Covenant have their own homeworlds. The Grunts, for example, lived on a planet with a methane environment. They wouldn't survive living on Halo unless they had their breathing aparatus, which I doubt they would have had some 100,000 years ago. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] tractrpl Someone said that the Haloes were activated 100,000 years ago. At that time, there were human species inhabiting the Earth, such as Neanderthal and Hidelbreginsis. But as I stated earlier, you could say they were not sentient because they didn’t have the creative capacity to come up with new innovations. Because of this, the near humans living on Earth would have been able to survive the activation of the Haloes. This is how I think the story goes. But now for Halo 3, not only does Master Chief and the Arbiter have to stop the Covenant from gaining control of the Ark and activating the Haloes, they also have to somehow defeat the Flood, without resorting to the same last resort measures that the Forerunners had to do back then.[/quote] The Neanderthal and other primative species could have survived the activation of Halo. They weren't very big or tall meaning they would not have sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] FyreHeart Good point - Bravo Tractrpl. An excellent, consistent theory. Taking off my original post, let me add this: The ForeRunners reconized they were going to lose the war against the Flood, and created the Halos. Then, they evacuated the galaxy in the Ark, taking all sentient species with them. After activating the Halos and cleansing the galaxy (so they thought), they returned and reseeded the life forms they saved on their planets, with the benefit of ForeRunner technology (which the species would have gotten accustomed to on their long voyage outside the galaxy.) However, the arduous task of saving and reseeding the galaxy took its toll on the ForeRunners, and they crash-landed on earth, thus burying the Ark under the ground of Africa. (At this point, the story could go two ways: ForeRunners became feral and were the ancestors of humans OR ForeRunners were all killed in the crash and humans are unrelated.) The ancestors of the reseeded species become the Covenant. They all share a kinship they recognize by the ForeRunner technology. Since the humans DON'T have ForeRunner technology, they assume the ForeRunners have cursed them and thus are they worthy of destruction (See "The Fall of Reach"). How did the Flood survive? Two possibilities: We know the Flood was dormant on the first Halo until the Covenant reawakened them. Perhaps this dormant state allowed them to survive without food for 100,000 years. Second: Perhaps the ForeRunners unknowingly transported some of the Flood out of the galaxy with them, and then brought them back. (The sudden revival of the Flood on the Ark could explain why it crashed on earth, above.)[/quote] Well, now you're saying that the Forerunners intentionally created the Covenant species. This I don't buy because that would mean that the Covenant are actually the Reclaimers and not the humans. And we all know that humans are the Forerunners and that the Monitors (343 Guilty Spark and the like) don't recognize them. As for how the flood survived, the answer is provided for us in the game and in the Strategy Guide (I think is where I read it). When the flood goes without food, they revert to their simplest form, the infection forms, and then hibernate. The sentinels' job was to eliminate the rest of the flood form throughout the galaxy and quarantine them on the Haloes and other Forerunner facilities. This is part of why I think the Forerunners erred. I don't believe they were aware of Gravemind or beings like him. I have a feeling that the true way to defeating the Flood is to destroy Gravemind and all other (if there are any) beings like him. Your theory also assumes that the Forerunners survived after the Haloes were activated, at least for a time. We know that's not true because 343 Guilty Spark told us so. At the last level, the Arbiter asks 343 GS "And what happened to those who created Halo?" And 343 Guilty spark answers "They, along with all other sentient life in the Galaxy, died." Also, 343 GS knew about the Ark, its purpose, and it's location. So, if there were any survivors on the Ark, he would have answered the Arbiter like this: "They, along with all other sentient life in the Galaxy died, except those on the Ark." He didn't say that, and he knows the Ark's purpose was not to save some of the Forerunners. Which is why I think the Ark was made to somehow affect the local species on Earth to evolve sentience. Basically, to state again my theory in short, we know that humans and only humans are the Reclaimers. Therefore, there is definitely a connection between Humans and the Forerunners. 343 Guilty Spark is also aware of the existence of the Ark, and knows, in quite detail, it’s purpose. So we can say that when 343 GS said that the rings killed the Forerunners along with all other sentient life, we can safely assume that there were no survivors. Therefore, sentient life could have only arisen again sometime after the activation of the rings. Therefore, modern humans had to have been created by the Forerunners. And since the Forerunners couldn’t have created humans before the activation of the Haloes, because the Haloes would have killed the Humans they created as well as the Forerunners themselves, we can conclude that the Forerunners left some device that would create or allow the creation of modern humans to occur sometime after the activation of the rings, which was probably the purpose of the Ark. From all of this, we can also make a correlation that the Forerunners probably tried to test out the Ark to see if it could create sentient humans from the non-sentient subjects. I can say they probably conducted their tests on the Haloes. The primitive stone structures built on the Haloes were probably built by these “test humans,” and the Forerunners probably built the newer structures around them to protect them, so that when the real Humans happened upon them, they could reclaim them. Since the Monitors do not recognize the Covenant species as being Reclaimers, you could say they were probably created by accident by the same devices in the Ark that created the sentient humans. Someone said that the Haloes were activated 100,000 years ago. At that time, there were human species inhabiting the Earth, such as Neanderthal and Hidelbreginsis. But as I stated earlier, you could say they were not sentient because they didn’t have the creative capacity to come up with new innovations. Because of this, the near humans living on Earth would have been able to survive the activation of the Haloes. This is how I think the story goes. But now for Halo 3, not only does Master Chief and the Arbiter have to stop the Covenant from gaining control of the Ark and activating the Haloes, they also have to somehow defeat the Flood, without resorting to the same last resort measures that the Forerunners had to do back then. [Edited on 1/20/2005 12:59:58 PM]
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Good point - Bravo Tractrpl. An excellent, consistent theory. Taking off my original post, let me add this: The ForeRunners reconized they were going to lose the war against the Flood, and created the Halos. Then, they evacuated the galaxy in the Ark, taking all sentient species with them. After activating the Halos and cleansing the galaxy (so they thought), they returned and reseeded the life forms they saved on their planets, with the benefit of ForeRunner technology (which the species would have gotten accustomed to on their long voyage outside the galaxy.) However, the arduous task of saving and reseeding the galaxy took its toll on the ForeRunners, and they crash-landed on earth, thus burying the Ark under the ground of Africa. (At this point, the story could go two ways: ForeRunners became feral and were the ancestors of humans OR ForeRunners were all killed in the crash and humans are unrelated.) The ancestors of the reseeded species become the Covenant. They all share a kinship they recognize by the ForeRunner technology. Since the humans DON'T have ForeRunner technology, they assume the ForeRunners have cursed them and thus are they worthy of destruction (See "The Fall of Reach"). How did the Flood survive? Two possibilities: We know the Flood was dormant on the first Halo until the Covenant reawakened them. Perhaps this dormant state allowed them to survive without food for 100,000 years. Second: Perhaps the ForeRunners unknowingly transported some of the Flood out of the galaxy with them, and then brought them back. (The sudden revival of the Flood on the Ark could explain why it crashed on earth, above.)
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Wow that is a great post. Your theories and ideas are great and i fully agree with them. wow again. nice job, how long did that take you anyway?
