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12/13/2010 12:28:46 AM
584
Does 1 = .9999999.......
1/3 = .333.....
2/3 = .666.....
So does
3/3 = .999.....
or
3/3 = 1
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EnderJSV [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere. [/quote]That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept.[/quote]I thought you were asking if the 0.999... stuff was usable in the real world. Clarify? [/quote]I was asking if it could be confirmed by a real world measurement, not if it could be applied based on the concept itself, but an actual trial. I almost immediately edited my post, however, to reflect that I understand the impossibility of this. It was hypothetical more than anything.[/quote] Why is it impossible. Is it impossible to test .333 continuing with real world examples? [/quote]I can't think of a scenario in which you can compare the mass of physical matter with the mass of other physical matter in which one equals 1 and the other equals .999... without concluding that they are one and the same through means [i]other than[/i] instantly applying the mathematical concept that innately deems them the same. How would someone conduct an experiment like that to prove them different, were such a thing possible? It was a silly question. [Edited on 12.12.2010 8:55 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere. [/quote]That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept.[/quote]I thought you were asking if the 0.999... stuff was usable in the real world. Clarify? [/quote]I was asking if it could be confirmed by a real world measurement, not if it could be applied based on the concept itself, but an actual trial. I almost immediately edited my post, however, to reflect that I understand the impossibility of this. It was hypothetical more than anything.[/quote] Why is it impossible. Is it impossible to test .333 continuing with real world examples?
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I suppose that's as good an answer as I'll get. I guess my question isn't very appropriate to begin with. I appreciate the responses.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 Of course it is. I edited my post a moment after posting to reflect that such a question would be unanswerable, but I was trying to illustrate the unknowable idea of something of that context. I'm not refuting this concept. I'm simply asking whether this is an assumptive truth of humanity or a proven truth of mathematics. I guess a better question would be, is there a shadow of a doubt in your mind surrounding whether this concept is indisputable and will never be so?[/quote] I don't know about you, but it is very difficult for me to wrap my mind around Infinity of anything. I do know that if I have a pizza pie sliced into thirds and I eat the whole the thing. I have eaten a one pie which is equal to .999.... of a pie. [/quote] Yup.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [u]Fun Fact![/u] Did you know it is very likely that Socrates did not exist. [/quote]That's because he came 1/2 out, then another 1/2, then another 1/2, and never fully came out of his mother's womb. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere. [/quote]That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept.[/quote]I thought you were asking if the 0.999... stuff was usable in the real world. Clarify? [/quote]I was asking if it could be confirmed by a real world measurement, not if it could be applied based on the concept itself, but an actual trial. I almost immediately edited my post, however, to reflect that I understand the impossibility of this. It was hypothetical more than anything.[/quote]Well, something 0.999... meters long is exactly like something 1 meter long, so you have to mathematically prove this. [Edited on 12.12.2010 8:52 PM PST]
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Torquoise.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere. [/quote]That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept.[/quote]I thought you were asking if the 0.999... stuff was usable in the real world. Clarify? [/quote]I was asking if it could be confirmed by a real world measurement, not if it could be applied based on the concept itself, but an actual trial. I almost immediately edited my post, however, to reflect that I understand the impossibility of this. It was hypothetical more than anything.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 Of course it is. I edited my post a moment after posting to reflect that such a question would be unanswerable, but I was trying to illustrate the unknowable idea of something of that context. I'm not refuting this concept. I'm simply asking whether this is an assumptive truth of humanity or a proven truth of mathematics. I guess a better question would be, is there a shadow of a doubt in your mind surrounding whether this concept is indisputable and will never be so?[/quote] I don't know about you, but it is very difficult for me to wrap my mind around Infinity of anything. I do know that if I have a pizza pie sliced into thirds and I eat the whole the thing. I would have eaten one pie which is equal to .999.... of a pie. [Edited on 12.12.2010 8:52 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EnderJSV Not really. It can actually be applied to almost anything. It's like that Socrates problem. Say I'm in a room, and I want to cross to the other side of the room. First, I'd have to cross halfway across the room. Then, I'd have to cross halfway across that halfway. Then I'd have to cross halfway across that new distance. Essentially, I'd never reach the other side of the room because I'd always have to cross halfway from my current position, right? Of course, we all know that's not true. And the reason is, when we cross the room, we are essentially adding an infinite amount of halves. 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8... on to infinity. Of course, that adds up to one. In fact you can kind of think of .999... that way. .9 + .09 + .009 ... on to infinity. As though, instead of crossing halfway through the room, you crossed nine-tenths the way across. [/quote] I guess this would be true, however, you'd never get there anytime in your lifespan. [u]Fun Fact![/u] Did you know it is very likely that Socrates did not exist. [/quote] Really? That explains why I've spent 10 years trying to get to the refrigerator unsuccessfully.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere. [/quote]That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept.[/quote]I thought you were asking if the 0.999... stuff was usable in the real world. Clarify?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 I'm not pretending that they are different numbers, I'm asking my question in a different way in the hopes that I can better understand this. Don't be a jackass.[/quote] Like we said before, it is difficult to apply anything infinite to the real world. [/quote]Of course it is. I edited my post a moment after posting to reflect that such a question would be unanswerable, but I was trying to illustrate the unknowable idea of something of that context. I'm not refuting this concept. I'm simply asking whether this is an assumptive truth of humanity or a proven truth of mathematics. I guess a better question would be, is there a shadow of a doubt in your mind surrounding whether this concept is indisputable and will never be so?[/quote] It's not unanswerable. It's actually quite common to use infinity in real world calculations. See my previous post.
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Anyone who knows anything about infinite geometric sequences should understand why .999... equals 1.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EnderJSV Not really. It can actually be applied to almost anything. It's like that Socrates problem. Say I'm in a room, and I want to cross to the other side of the room. First, I'd have to cross halfway across the room. Then, I'd have to cross halfway across that halfway. Then I'd have to cross halfway across that new distance. Essentially, I'd never reach the other side of the room because I'd always have to cross halfway from my current position, right? Of course, we all know that's not true. And the reason is, when we cross the room, we are essentially adding an infinite amount of halves. 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8... on to infinity. Of course, that adds up to one. In fact you can kind of think of .999... that way. .9 + .09 + .009 ... on to infinity. As though, instead of crossing halfway through the room, you crossed nine-tenths the way across. [/quote] I guess this would be true, however, you'd never get there anytime in your lifespan. [u]Fun Fact![/u] Did you know it is very likely that Socrates did not exist.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere. [/quote]That does not explain anything. That is a re-assertion of the concept. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 I'm not pretending that they are different numbers, I'm asking my question in a different way in the hopes that I can better understand this. Don't be a jackass.[/quote] Like we said before, it is difficult to apply anything infinite to the real world. [/quote]Of course it is. I edited my post a moment after posting to reflect that such a question would be unanswerable, but I was trying to illustrate the unknowable idea of something of that context. I'm not refuting this concept. I'm simply asking whether this is an assumptive truth of humanity or a proven truth of mathematics. I guess a better question would be, is there a shadow of a doubt in your mind surrounding whether this concept is indisputable and will never be so? [Edited on 12.12.2010 8:48 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 I'm not pretending that they are different numbers, I'm asking my question in a different way in the hopes that I can better understand this. Don't be a jackass.[/quote] Like we said before, it is difficult to apply anything infinite to the real world. [/quote] Not really. It can actually be applied to almost anything. It's like that Socrates problem. Say I'm in a room, and I want to cross to the other side of the room. First, I'd have to cross halfway across the room. Then, I'd have to cross halfway across that halfway. Then I'd have to cross halfway across that new distance. Essentially, I'd never reach the other side of the room because I'd always have to cross halfway from my current position, right? Of course, we all know that's not true. And the reason is, when we cross the room, we are essentially adding an infinite amount of halves. 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8... on to infinity. Of course, that adds up to one. In fact you can kind of think of .999... that way. .9 + .09 + .009 ... on to infinity. As though, instead of crossing halfway through the room, you crossed nine-tenths the way across.
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Stay on topic.
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My brain hurts [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math Yes. /thread If you disagree, you're wrong. This post is reserved for countering your arguments. x = 0.999... 10x = 9.999... 9x = 9 x = 9/9 x = 1 EDIT- Anyone who denies this fact, I'll make it easier for you. The set of reals is dense. This means that there is a real number between any other two real numbers. So, if 0.999... and 1 are different, name one number between them or shut up. [/quote]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 What I'm unclear on is whether in the context of, say, the mass of some physical matter, if, mathematically .999... would still truly equal 1. It seems that this is true because it is demanded by Humanity's mathematicians (which still seems to be out of convenience), rather than a declarative proof by mathematics itself. That is more along the lines of what I was asking initially.[/quote]0.999... and 1 are NOT different numbers. They are equal, stop pretending they are different numbers. [/quote]I'm not pretending that they are different numbers, I'm asking my question in a different way in the hopes that I can better understand this. Don't be a jackass.[/quote]Think of it this way: since they're equal, wherever you say ''1,'' you can replace it with 0.999.... Anywhere.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 I'm not pretending that they are different numbers, I'm asking my question in a different way in the hopes that I can better understand this. Don't be a jackass.[/quote] Like we said before, it is difficult to apply anything infinite to the real world.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mister Math [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 What I'm unclear on is whether in the context of, say, the mass of some physical matter, if, mathematically .999... would still truly equal 1. It seems that this is true because it is demanded by Humanity's mathematicians (which still seems to be out of convenience), rather than a declarative proof by mathematics itself. That is more along the lines of what I was asking initially.[/quote]0.999... and 1 are NOT different numbers. They are equal, stop pretending they are different numbers. [/quote]I'm not pretending that they are different numbers, I'm asking my question in a different way in the hopes that I can better understand this. Don't be a jackass.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] m3andak [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trace007 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] m3andak [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trace007 -_- This late in the game, that isn't funny.[/quote] it isnt made to be funny -__________- [/quote] So it wasn't a joke? Now it's funny.[/quote] of course it wasnt a joke. See my previous post[/quote] *reads previous post* -_- *facepalm* [Edited on 12.12.2010 8:41 PM PST]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trace007 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] m3andak [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Trace007 -_- This late in the game, that isn't funny.[/quote] it isnt made to be funny -__________- [/quote] So it wasn't a joke? Now it's funny.[/quote] of course it wasnt a joke. See my previous post
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 What I'm unclear on is whether in the context of, say, the mass of some physical matter, if, mathematically .999... would still truly equal 1. It seems that this is true because it is demanded by Humanity's mathematicians (which still seems to be out of convenience), rather than a declarative proof by mathematics itself. That is more along the lines of what I was asking initially.[/quote]0.999... and 1 are NOT different numbers. They are equal, stop pretending they are different numbers.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dream053 What I'm unclear on is whether in the context of, say, the mass of some physical matter, if, mathematically .999... would still truly equal 1. It seems that this is true because it is demanded by Humanity's mathematicians (which still seems to be out of convenience), rather than a declarative proof by mathematics itself. That is more along the lines of what I was asking initially.[/quote] It's hard, if not impossible, to apply infinity to anything real world. However, if something weighed one pound it would also weigh .999.... pound.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kkman4evah [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EnderJSV [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] m3andak [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Disambiguation [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] m3andak [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Disambiguation you could have and infinite number of 9's and it still wont equal one.[/quote] Actually, if you have an infinite number of 9's it would equal 1. Please read the previous 500+ posts in this thread :) Thanks.[/quote][url=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5296/9999j.png]no it isnt. i have disputable evidence made by Dr. Math himself[/url][/quote] CRAP!!! You've proven your case, good sir.[/quote]I lol'd hardcore. OT: I seriously have a fried brain now. 3/3 is the wierdest number I know now. It equals 2 numbers. Ugh. I really hope that I don't have to use this logic somewhere else >.< I'll be arguing too much with it that I'll fail anyways[/quote] 3/3 equals more than 2 numbers. It also equals 4/4, 5/5,6/6, and I'm pretty sure it also equals 7/7. It's a crazy number. But don't let the North Koreans know. They'll use it to take over America.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] drummer0702 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kkman4evah I lol'd hardcore. OT: I seriously have a fried brain now. 3/3 is the wierdest number I know now. It equals 2 numbers. Ugh. I really hope that I don't have to use this logic somewhere else >.< I'll be arguing too much with it that I'll fail anyways[/quote] Haha. Don't think of it like that. They actually equal the same number written two different ways. [/quote]That's my exact point haha. I'm used to one number equaling one number. New concepts: Not something I'm good with lolz
