{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
Edited by PillowPaladin:
10/25/2015 2:27:55 AM
292
Sunbreaker Sub-Class Does Not Need A Rebalance Whatsoever
Hello, fellow Guardian.
Allow me to start with a statement:
[b]The Sunbreaker sub-class is entirely fair in respect to all other sub-classes and should NOT be rebalanced/nerfed/scrapped.[/b]
Hunters and Warlocks, prepare your torches and pitchforks...
I find the most efficient and effective method for resolving this issue is by individually addressing each comment and concern about Sunbreaker I have witnessed on this fine forum.
[quote]The Sunbreaker's armor is too strong! It needs to be nerfed severely because it's just not fair![/quote]
This is a very common complaint I see about Sunbreakers. However, I want to swiftly end an all-too-common misconception about Sunbreaker's "armor" -- there is no armor! That is, there is no [i]additional[/i] armor that the Sunbreaker Titan possesses when using his/her super. The only "armor" a Sunbreaker receives is the same damage resistance the Bladedancer and Sunsinger sub-class receives when a super is initially activated.
But wait, what makes Sunbreakers seem more invincible compared to Bladedancers and Sunsingers?
Two things:
1) Titan's have an increased Armor stat in general which becomes especially evident when a super is active (see Striker sub-class). This increased Armor stat is counter-balanced by Titans having lower Recovery and Agility compared to that of Hunters and Warlocks. Titans are designed to emphasize Armor, Warlocks are designed to emphasize Recovery and Hunters are designed to emphasize Agility. Hmm, sounds almost, [i]fair[/i], dare I say?
2) Most Sunbreakers use the "Cauterize" ability which triggers regeneration upon each Hammer kill (not to mention grenades, melee) which makes it seem as if their health never runs low. This is [b][i]identical[/i][/b] to the Hungering Blade ability that Bladedancers possess. Here are the two abilities' official descriptions for your convenience:
Cauterize: Enemies brought down by your fire regenerate your health.
Hungering Blade: Kills with Arc Blade and Blink Strike immediately regenerate health.
So why are people so upset with Sunbreakers sub-class, yet so accepting of the Bladedancer sub-class? I will address this near the conclusion of my post.
[quote]Titans have heat-seaking hammers! That requires no skill whatsoever - blatantly unfair.[/quote]
Well, they are actually not as heat-seeking as one might think. The Flameseeker ability only slightly alters its flight path to hit enemy targets. A blatant miss by the Titan will not automatically correct the hammer to turn 180° and "heat-seek" an enemy. Remember, Titans are actually giving up the entirety of abilities Explosive Pyre and Fleetfire for the small assistance to accuracy.
Ultimately, if you get killed by a Hammer, you only have yourself to blame for not running away. Or, more likely, the Titan simply made an athletic throw. That's not unfair; that's just a good play.
[quote]I can't kill Titans with my weapons even though a few of my teammates are firing as well![/quote]
Again, Titan's are designed to have that increased Armor stat we talked about earlier. That being said, in what world does a Super lose to primary, or even secondary, weapon fire? It's a Super! What do you expect? Remember, the Cauterize effect as well, if you "feed" the Titan's super by allowing him/her to get kills he regains his health!
So instead of taking the foolish strategy of charging a tank head-on, try running away instead? Put that Agility and Recovery to good use. You wouldn't charge a Bladedancer and expect to come out on top more that 10% of the time...
Again, It's important to remember that Supers trump casual weapon fire. It's common sense.
[quote]Titan's throw too many hammers![/quote]
Titans give up the powerful Suncharge and Scorched Earth perks when selecting Forgemaster effectively nerfing their own lethality in order to throw a few more hammers. Nothing unfair to report here, this simply compensates for the lack of other powerful abilities a Sunbreaker could potentially possess. We see this constantly with numerous sub-classes.
[quote]Sunbreakers are ruining the once beautiful Crucible.[/quote]
You're almost completely correct. I think this what you meant to say:
Sunbreakers are ruining the once [b]corrupt[/b] Crucible.
Sunbreakers are obliterating the unfair monopoly Warlocks and Hunters once held over the Crucible grounds. Hunters and Warlocks have enjoyed PVP [u]domination[/u] throughout all of Year 1 due to their PVP tailored Supers. Titans, on the other hand, had one decent sub-class for PVP (Striker) and one pathetic PVP sub-class (Defender).
Hunters and Warlocks are simply upset that they no longer can abuse the powerless Titan.
Bungie recognized the imbalance in PVP and addressed the issue perfectly in the creation of the Sunbreaker.
Now, all guardians stand equal.
And like the Phoenix, Sunbreakers arise from their Nova-Bombed, Gun-Slung, Sun-Sung, Blade-Danced ashes and torch any discrimination towards their fellow Titans.
[quote]Well, err... umm... everyone else agrees with me that Sunbreakers are OP![/quote]
Here is where I interject my opinion:
I believe that due to the majority of Destiny players playing as Hunters and Warlocks, there is a significantly massive bias towards the much smaller Titan population.
So of course there are more people crying for a Sunbreaker nerf compared to those who oppose a nerf. The numbers clearly indicate that most Guardians are Hunters and Warlocks that can't easily dominate the Crucible anymore.
The Hunter/Warlock population is frustrated so they all throw a tantrum.
Due to sheer volume of Hunters/Warlocks, that obnoxious tantrum has grown into a foolish uproar.
Now [i]that[/i] is unfair.
End.
I encourage and invite anyone who disagrees with my rhetoric to address me in the comments.
Thank you!
Also, I'd like to thank Bungie for their hard work in rebalancing the Crucible by creating Sunbreakers.
Without you, Titans would have forever faded further in the Crucible.
Which Guardians think HoS should be nerfed? Find out at this poll:
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/165463843/0/0
[b][u]Additional points generated by this beautiful community[/u][/b]
[quote]Avly485: HoS is inferior to GG because HoS is like a fusion rifle with travel time. The aoe explosions offset the fact that it isn't hit scan like GG.[/quote]
[quote]ssolidus007: I main a Void Hunter and could not agree wth you more. If I die at the hands of a hammer it's my own damn fault. Nothing more satisfying than hearing the anvil pop and just wrecking him in the chest with my void bow. Plus it's just fun running away, it's like cat and mouse or intergalactic David vs Goliath.[/quote]
[quote]Xenith: It's not that they have extra armor. They have damage reduction of 55%, the same as a Sun Singer with Radiant Skin active.[/quote]
[quote]Wagsman1: The reality of Crucible is what this guy said. Hunters and Warlocks have ruled because of their superior abilities. Titans now have a Super that is on par with the other two classes. It's only an issue because now Hunters and Warlocks are getting a taste of their own medicine.[/quote]
-
-
2 RepliesI can kill a blade dancer FAR easier than a sunbreaker. No comparison. Shotgun melee combo = dead blade dancer even if he kills you. Shotgun, melee, shotgun, grenade, shotgun, run combo = regening hammer of sol who just killed you after he noticed you were scratching his back.
-
1 ReplyThe sun breaker is broken haha
-
1 ReplyTitans have the most agility in the game
-
1 ReplyIf I can run up on a Titan hunter warlock with the invective and shut there super down I don't see them being op some ppl just suck
-
I'm a hunter/titan/warlock and I play in that order when it comes to time put in. And I see both sides but the sun breaker combines powerful supers into 1 it has the shield of arc blade/sunsinger range of gunslinger(slightly less) and explosive projectiles of a warlock. Now this would be okay if it was inferior on all 3 fronts but it is not it has more shots then gunslinger and nova bomb, it's got less explosive range compared to a nova however the more shots out weigh that. And we'll as you said has as much armor as the blade dancer.
-
#SaveTheSunbreakers
-
2 RepliesWhat? A Titan main claiming that sunbreakers are just fine? I don't believe it.
-
Incoming salt for being a Titan. Tell me why the Hammer of Salt is OP then I'll prove you wrong!
-
I think it's just the hunters being butthurt. I'm a warlock and haven't seen any other warlocks complain so...yeah.
-
You're drunk
-
4 RepliesAm I the only one that noticed that he never addressed how Cauterize and Hungering Blade are different?
-
When i hear an an anvil drop i run away unless i have my super ready. Im not about to solo that sunbreaker like the average scrub thinks they can
-
16 RepliesThe fact that if you headshot them with a sniper they don't die is kinda ridiculous. There armor needs nerfed a bit lol
-
12 RepliesHey look, a titan main defending his OP subclass from being balanced. You know what golden gun can kill? Literally everything...except for a Sunbreaker titan.
-
4 RepliesIm not going to throw my arms up and have a tantrum, Im just going to point out that a bladedancer does not have a similar damage resistance to a sunbreaker, Im not a type of person to research every stat but I know it is possible to one hit head shot a bladedancer while using most snipers whereas the sunbreaker can only be one hit head shotted by a black spindle or other very high damage snipers
-
I agree but they need to have the armor reduction nerf ed slightly so something like a 1000 yard stare can 1 head shot the Titan. Others than that complete fair because ever class while activating a super can get 1 head shot with certain snipers. Also they should be killed by a golden gun in 1 shot.
-
Spoken like a true titan main.
-
Edited by Six: 10/26/2015 12:44:31 PMThey're nerfing the defense while in your super...that's it. They've already said multiple times that it's in the works and you can't deny its a reasonable nerf.As far as the all the other parts of the super, they're balanced IMO.
-
Oh of course a titan main. Typical the day and actual non titan main posts about not patching sunbreakers is the day i would love to see.
-
1 ReplyI don't know if I should "bite" your troll post. I can't really tell if you are serious or not. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. [quote]However, I want to swiftly end an all-too-common misconception about Sunbreaker's "armor" -- there is no armor! That is, there is no additional armor that the Sunbreaker Titan possesses when using his/her super. The only "armor" a Sunbreaker receives is the same damage resistance the Bladedancer and Sunsinger sub-class receives when a super is initially activated. [/quote] The Titan gets a green overshield. That’s what people mean with “armor is too strong”. The titan has the best armor already in the game and it gets an overshield on top of that. If you don’t see the problem in that, you must play a sunbreaker yourself. [quote]2) Most Sunbreakers use the "Cauterize" ability which triggers regeneration upon each Hammer kill (not to mention grenades, melee) which makes it seem as if their health never runs low. This is identical to the Hungering Blade ability that Bladedancers possess. Here are the two abilities' official descriptions for your convenience: Cauterize: Enemies brought down by your fire regenerate your health. Hungering Blade: Kills with Arc Blade and Blink Strike immediately regenerate health.[/quote] How are you comparing those two? A bladedancer HAS to come close in order to get a kill and has lower armor than a titan. A sunbreaker has health regen AND high armor AND doesn’t have to get close to get a kill. THAT’S the problem with cauterize. If a titan HAS to come close in order to get a kill, cauterize might be necessary. [quote]Sunbreakers are obliterating the unfair monopoly Warlocks and Hunters once held over the Crucible grounds. Hunters and Warlocks have enjoyed PVP domination throughout all of Year 1 due to their PVP tailored Supers. Titans, on the other hand, had one decent sub-class for PVP (Striker) and one pathetic PVP sub-class (Defender). [/quote] Haha, you must be joking (I hope). Strikers are pretty much unkillable during their super (they WILL survive a shot from a golden gun). And you can always use it as an escape (It's called fist of panic for a reason). Besides that, they can take out an entire team in control. Defenders are the best subclass for PvE and a great subclass in control and salvage. I wouldn’t want to use a defender in clash or skirmish, but no class should be best in everything. [quote]Hunters and Warlocks are simply upset that they no longer can abuse the powerless Titan.[/quote] No hunter or warlock ever abused a titan, or think he/she could. [quote]Bungie recognized the imbalance in PVP and addressed the issue perfectly in the creation of the Sunbreaker.[/quote] Please tell us this post is a joke. Compare sunbreaker with sunsinger and gunslinger and tell without twitching that is fair. 7 hammers you don’t have to aim versus 3 shots you have to aim precisely. 7 hammers that have more power than golden gun shots compared to the 10 grenades a sunsinger can throw. Splash damage. Overshield or health regen versus weak armor (gunslinger) and no health regen (sunsinger and gunslinger).
-
35 RepliesEdited by lightningrod713: 10/25/2015 5:00:05 AMAll right so I dissagree with a fair few points in this post and I will explain why in a calm and orderly manner as you have seen fit to do so for us. First, watch this video once if you wish or simply the sections I mention below if you want to get straight to the point. [b]1. Damage reduction[/b] I read in your post that Sunbreakers get equivalent damage reduction as other classes such as Blade Dancer, Night Stalker, Sun Singer and Storm Caller. However, if you watch the video between [b]1:25 - 2:22[/b] you will see that, with [b]the same high impact sniper headshot[/b] : Normal Damage (including on Gunslinger) : 417 Most Classes with damage resistance : 209 Voidwalker (poor little guy) : 230 [b]Sunbreaker : 188[/b] Thus, by calculating a simple percent reduction by conparing to the weapons base damage we can find each classes damage reduction while in super Gunslinger : 0% Voidwalker : 45% Everything else : 50% [b]Sunbreaker : 55%[/b] With a Titan's minimum armour being 198, even a titan speced into better recovery or agility would still be able to survive this with life left over, not to mention surving a Golden Gun bullet, a Nova Bomb and quite a few ticks of Storm Caller lightning. [b]2. Character Stats[/b] Now, on to character stats. You say that the Titan is at a disadvantage stat wise due to his agility and regeneration. This is true since this is how classes were built to begin with. However, Titans now have a subclass which allows them to conserve their stat advantage while compensating for the disadvantages quite well. Agility : despite what I have seen of your thoughts on the subject, most of the community agrees that a Titan is still one of the fastest classes due to skating. It might not be as useful in tight spaces or for turning, but for a Sunbreaker with lots of damage reduction that isn't as much if an issue as getting from point A to point B fast, an issue which is solved with skating. Recovery : contrary to what you may believe, Cauterize and Hungering Blade are two very different perks with very different effects. [b]watch video from 0:00 - 0:35[/b] Hungering Blade : only activates on melee or super kill which must both be done in close quarters melee. Additionally, the recovery of Hungering Blade regenrates health first, then shields Cauterize : activates on melee, [b]grenade[/b] and super, two of which can be used over medium to long distance depending on skill. Contrary to Hungering blade, Cauterize [b]regenrates both health and shields at once[/b] resulting in an overall better recovery. [b]Perks and builds[/b] The first and most important point about the Hammer of Sol is that it is very powerful. It will one shot kill anyone whithin it's blast radius, except for a super charged player at the very fringe of the blast, every time without fail. At one point in your post you mentionned Flameseeker and how it was inferior and blocked other perk choices. I agree that Flameseeker is not an automatic godmode and that it's effects are more to tweek your aim and help for general lack of good aiming when in 3rd person, making Explosive Pyre a generaly better choice However, with the aid of Immolation Gauntlets (the only Sunbreaker specific exotic and frankly one of the few viable choices to them at the moment) Sunbreakers are now able to wield both of the previously mentionned perks at the same time, resulting in very large blast radius, very powerful hammers which correct their course when they are within a certain range of the enemy and explode when near as if they had Grenades and Horseshoes. This, in my eyes, is quite powerful indeed. As for your comment that using Forgemaster blocks powerful perks, I vehemently dissagree. As fun as Suncharge and Scorched Earth may be in general, they are not a part of ideal builds in crucible : one forces you to enter melee range which defies the advantage a Sunbreaker has over Blade Dancers and shotguns, the other prevents the use of Cauterize which is pretty much the best perk in its tree. On a closing note, the main reason people are frustrated by Sunbreakers is because of their innability to kill them with normal weapons. As you said, that is a normal thing, a super is a super for a reason and it should be hard to kill a super using regular guns, and indeed it is hard for most. Getting a couple shotgun rounds off or landing a crucial sniper shot is a difficult feat for any player, and one many have devoted much time to perfecting. That is why having the Sunbreaker come in and essentially destroy the general rules by which every other super in the game has functionned for a year (since, as you say, the past is important) frustrates these players who have spent so much time learning to counter supers. I hope you found my comment respectful and enlightening and would much appreciate a well thought out and courteous response when you finish reading it. Ther is no tl;dr, read the post please
-
A post from a Titan Sunbreaker who uses cauterize.... Hard to take your post serious, buddy. For the next two months use gunslinger in crucible. Then we'll talk.
-
1 ReplyYou might have valid points, if the reality of this subclass balanced with the other subclasses. The example I like to go back to is the Gunslinger, as it's the most relevant. One shot lethality, no discernable armor bonus, and capped at three shots. The Sunbreaker subclass has a significant armor increase, one shot lethality (regardless of perks used), and has 2+ more "shots" than Goldengun. If you factor in leaving columns of flames scorching the map, or the ability to have even more armor by standing in that pyre, you might be able to see the issue. Hammer of Sol needs to be limited to three throws, with 1 additional throw through the use of forgemaster. Or, the armor buff needs to be reduced significantly. It's called balance, and PVP sorely needs it.
-
2 RepliesEdited by Guardian0140: 10/31/2015 8:05:17 AMHahahahaha did he just say sunbreakers don't get more armor on when they super hahahaha derp The thing is people are comparing gg to hammers yes they are similar except a couple of things Hammers known abilities most people compare 1. hammer has tons of armor and can get even more via perks. Cant be 1 shot head shot. 2. Hammers have an easy health regeneration that not only applies to super but grenade and melee. 3.the impact on hammers they have such a hit box that landing it under someone that just double jumped it will still kill them. 4. Duration and amount of hammers roughly about 4/5 without perks if you're spamming them 6/7 via perks. HUNTERS Golden guns comparison 1. Range on shots almost or can cross the map via skills. 2. Gg shoots in a straight line (not much of an advantage seeing sometimes someones around the corner with a shotgun. Plus the damn hammer has homing and its pretty damn easy to use still anyway) 3. Gg lasts idk maybe about 20 seconds maybe less (can be prolonged via perk by getting throwing knife kill but who uses that or throwing knifes while gg) Unlike hammer which can be prolonged by stepping into a sunspot which can be created by hammers every spot they hit. 4. No armor what so ever. blade dancer comparison 1. Heals on melee/super kill via perk close ranged. Hammers have by far more range than blade dancers. A blade dancer has to get really close. 2. Has an invisibility. Makes it easier for placement but lets face it invisibility is pretty easy to spot. 3. Has a decent amount of armor but can be 1 shot head shotted by sniper. 4. Why does the titans eyes hurt .... Because he cant "blink" Nightstalker comparison 1. Dodge roll. Allows to dodge out of supers kinda although most cases you're for sure dead seeing blast radius on hammers. 2. Invisibility ^^^ 3. Shadowshot can cancel any super. Can get 3 shots but tethers will be very short. Have one super long tether or one that can damage anyone tethered. 4. Gets barely any armor and it doesn't last more than 2 seconds. WARLOCKS Nova Bomb comparison 1. Why does the titans eyes hurt.... Because he cant "blink" 2. Decent amount of armor doesn't last long. Idk if they can be one shot headshot seeing its such a fast super a bit hard to get it off. 3. Has healing affect on melee super and grenades via perks 2 separate ones for melee and super/grenades Sunsinger comparison 1. Self resurrection. 2. Gets decent amount if armor can be one shot headshot by most high impact snipers can have increased armor via skills. 3. Gets an over shield on melee. Stormcaller comparison 1. Far ranged super (not as far as hammers). 2. Very fast using blink on super for the cost of a big chunk of the super time. 3. Armor is not existent can be one shot headshot. Can heal on activation of super and duration can be extended via perk only if grenade and melee are charged. 4. Chain abilities are great but so are the hammers "combustion skill thing" idr what its called. TITANS Striker comparison 1. One shot melee (shoulder charge) heal on melee kill. 2. Gets more armor than hammers but it only lasts for the 2-3 seconds of which jt takes you to slam. 3. Slam can one shot any supers and is a great counter if you get close enough. 4. Can be used ranged but its not too great. Defender why???? 1. Who is really gonna try to go defender against a hammer??? Sunbreakers have so much on the other classes its like a hybrid sunsinger one hit grenades with bladedancer healing golden guns combustion and almost a strikers armor. Im not one to cry nerf unless the thing is over powered. Thorn was a big problem back in the day only thing i would ever whine about ever, but sunbreakers need to lose some armor. Maybe it should be that throwing hammers costs some health so then people don't just go throwing them willy nilly (not serious about making them cost health) but they do need to lose some armor thats all i ask for. I don't care about the fact they they have a far more over power easy super to use. I just think i should be able to one shot headshot if im willing to stand there aim at his head and shoot him well knowing im about to get hammered into the ground.
-
Bump, so many ignorant hunters are saying that the titans get extra armour when using HoS, we only get an over shield if we stand still
