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#feedback

Edited by ArchangelLBC: 9/4/2015 5:08:35 PM
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Your MMO comparisons are bad and you should feel bad.

Sorry, couldn't resist the futurama reference. Skip to the end for tl;dr. This post is long. Anyway, one of the biggest complaints players have about what should be a nothing but positives expansion is that a lot of the work we put in is being made obsolete, along with the content it came from. The almost universal defense is "you've just never played an MMO before, that's how these games work". However, this comparison is bad for a few reasons. First, in an MMO, an expansion doesn't have to mean a level cap increase, or that loot gets left behind. I played FFXI for three years, with over 400 days of playtime. In the time I played it, they released three expansions. In none of those expansions was there a level cap increase or was old content made irrelevant. They added lots of bosses, quest lines and gear. Each expansion added things players would want, and replaced old gear with. Yet the things that were the gjallarhorns of their day stayed, and the old content was still relevant. Many years later, they did finally release expansions with raised level caps, and mostly obsoleted old gear. But the point is for three years, and for many years after I quit, they maintained a solid subscription base without ever raising the level or making old content obsolete. Still though, they did it eventually you might say! That brings me to my next point: Even when other games do this, you're looking at a year long, and often 18-24 months long, gear and content cycle. DeeJ talks about the same gun being boring after 10 years, but other games give you the chance to be bored on your own. Destiny is looking at a 4 month gear and content cycle on average. That is insanely fast. It means players who join just a little late barely get their feet wet before a new dlc comes in and makes everything they're doing kind of pointless. Of course Destiny has to have a quick turn around on DLC. They don't have a subscription fee, they don't have a cash shop, and a lot of console gamers might cry bloody murder if they tried. So of course they need to release dlc this fast to make their money which they need to keep developing and I'm ok with that. I hope they're doing something they love and are passionate about as game developers but they gotta eat. But because of this business model they really need to steer away from expansions that are based on a model that assumes a one to two year content cycle. Mid year expansions especially should only ever add. Never subtract like we saw with TDB, or trivialize like we saw with TDB and HOW. In a recent interview with game informer, Luke talked about how he wanted people to be chasing that horizontal optimization type of growth and not so much the vertical power up type of growth. That's a great thought Luke! I want you to apply that to all mid year expansions going forward. Whatever the max light level is when TTK is out along with the raid, that's what it should be in a year. And hey maybe that's sort of the idea with infusion and if so then well done. Because the thing is, I think one thing lying behind the #saveyear1gear and #saveourexotics movements is the fear that we'll never be as powerful as we were in year 1. The frustrating thing about stuff being left behind is that the new stuff meant to replace it is never as good. Two examples sum this up perfectly: In vanilla you could get the fatebringer and voc. In tdb you could get the word of crota and fang of ir yut which weren't really as good. In HoW you got weapons with shank burn. I think a lot of people would have voluntarily left their fatebringers behind on their own if six dreg pride had been seen as comprable. The other example is also a hand cannon one. In vanilla, you could buy The Devil You Know from the vanguard vendor. I gotta say, this was the weapon that made me really respect hand cannons. It was fantastic. So much so that when I accidentally dismantled it, I immediately grinded out a new one ASAP. In TDB it was replaced with The Devil You Don't. Which was just a horrid piece of crap and embodied everything I'd considered wrong with hand cannons. In HOW I couldn't even buy a hand cannon from the vg vendor. When other MMOs make old gear obsolete, they make the new gear manifestly better, not just from a stats viewpoint, but also what we'd think of as a perks viewpoint. Going forward, I think even if we have yearly, or bi-yearly resets, we have to have reason to believe that what's coming won't make us feel weaker than what we were before. Tl;dr 1) expansions don't have to make old content obsolete. Other MMOs have done this. 2) even when MMOs do it, they don't try to do it three times a year. Bungie needs to steer away from this kind of expansion if their business model requires such a quick release schedule. 3) when they do reset content and gear, we need to know that what we'll be replacing our old stuff with will be as good or better, not progressively worse.
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#feedback

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  • You are right in your title. Destiny is not an MMO. [spoiler]12 players in a shard is not Massive.[/spoiler] And it's not even remotely an RPG, which is what many people mean when they say MMO. So any time anyone writes anything like "blah blah other MMOS blah", they are wrong and should feel bad.

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    • "but they gotta eat." I stopped here, sorry. They eat just fine. Better than anyone here as this shows : Wiki: "On September 10, 2014, Activision claimed that Destiny was the most successful new gaming franchise launch, as the game shipped more than US$500 million to retail stores and first-parties worldwide." [url=http://www.develop-online.net/interview/revealed-the-huge-promises-and-secret-stipulations-of-the-bungie-activision-deal/0117411]The huge promises and secret stipulations of the Bungie Activision deal[/url] As you can clearly see even from initial sales and from bonuses below, even if they fail on all but even ONE of those criteria they stand to make millions upon millions. So uh, theyll eat just fine... If Destiny blows up right now, not one of these guys will starve. Actually, they will do the opposite, they will still gorge on fine wines and dines at a price they dont need to even think about. What you are really saying is... they gotta buy that new AUDI. And that new kitchen. And that new 10k home cinema system... well, u get the point, I hope. People work real hard and everyones gotta eat. I know people that work themselves to the bone JUST TO MAKE ENDS MEET! so they can eat badly processed food and enjoy a little life, and they are lucky (me included) compared to the rest of the world. If some of you could even step outside your comfort zone you might get a furkin SHOCK. Go to India, go to China, Pakistan, Columbia, Iran, Taiwan. Hell take a walk in the worst parts of your own country and you will still see things that shake your comfortable world. How is this all justified in peoples heads? It eludes me, it really does (although Im sure there will be those that try to justify it, there always is) What is this, the Grammys where you cant mention the troubles in the world? Shhh... dont bring up the starving and the destitute your ruining my buzz man! Whoops, I feel so sorry. --------------------------------- THE $7,500,000 ON-TIME BONUS The total bonus pay Bungie receives if the first Destiny project remains on budget and on target for its 2013 release. (Of the Total Bonus Pay, the maximum possible that can be distributed to staff is 20 per cent, or $1,500,000). THE $2,500,000 METACRITIC BONUS The total windfall Bungie receives if the first Destiny project receives a Gamerankings.com score above 90. THE $25,000,000 SALES KING BONUS The extra twenty-five million Bungie is granted if Activision makes $750 million in associated operating income during a twelve-month period. THE $25,000,000 SALES MASTER BONUS An extra $25m is added to the previous figure if Activision’s associated operating income hits $1 billion. OPENING ROYALTY RATE Royalties are on revenues after costs, not net receipts. Bungie is due 20 per cent of Activision’s annual operating income related to the Destiny and Comet business, if Activision’s said income is anything up to $100,000,000. WINNING ROYALTY RATE Bungie takes 35 per cent of said annual operating income if it climbs above $400,000,000. The smallest single royalty at this end of the scale is $140 million. TOTAL MAXIMUM BUDGET FOR DESTINY 1 Though advances are not discussed in the contract, Activision said it agrees to go up to a maximum budget of $140,000,000 for the first Destiny game on Xbox 360. --------------------------------------

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      • Im done with Bungie and Activision all together. At least when company's like Bioware or Bethesda release games, you get them as complete games...they don't force you to buy expansions to play the hole game. I bought the game and the first 2 expansion's, I have 3 lvl 34's, I'm imbarassed that I played for this long.

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        • For point three you literally just described powercreep. As for the overall post WoW makes gear obsolete every expansion and many times a within a year. Every time they put out a new difficulty level boom gear obsolete. Ascencion from yr 1 to yr 2 doesn't work because of powercreep. They can't top the faterbringer and if they do then we have powercreep. Ascencion is bad. We saw it in HoW all fatebringer black hammer ghally. If you get your way it will be ten years of that. Is that what you want?

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          • I don't even have time to explain why I don't have time to explain.

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          • Most people bash anyone who tries to make comparisons between Destiny and an MMO. I'm glad someone can do it without all of the naysayers crawling out the wetwork and trying to smother your opinion.

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          • Only one word is necessary. C-H-O-I-C-E!

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            • bump

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            • Edited by I Speedwagon I: 9/5/2015 5:46:26 PM
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            • Indeed. Destiny is so NOT an MMO at all. I can't even believe there are still people out there who continue to defend it as such... =/

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              • Edited by JA CAN: 9/5/2015 2:33:36 PM
                Yes they need to make the weapons better if you replace the old stuff(or make them only useable for old content) we need to have better stuff to look forward to. But here's the thing about today's media which is not a bad thing we have the opportunity to see what the new stuff is before it is released so they have the chance to improve the weapon and make it better. Before you never knew or at best you only heard rumors about what can be made or is going to be made or you saw someone with it never did you know before the release but that is because dev teams really put thought into the weapons. They knew they had to make better stuff to keep the masses. For these last 2 updates they have fallen short of the mark by far and that needs to change. #changeisgoodonlyifitsforthebetter

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                • Also, weapons are merely stat holders in MMOs. Destiny is also an FPS where guns each feel and shoot differently even if their base stats are similar or the same. This is why making guns obsolete in Destiny is different and less desirable than making weapons obsolete in a regular MMO

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                  • Swords?

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                    • In response to the 1-3 of the TL;DR 1. Yes, they do. Across the board. 2. This is the first time old content is truly becoming "obsolete." People used 300 attack visions against hm crota because it was that versatile. 3. Sure. To be perfectly honest though, knowing whether or not the new stuff is good or not is pretty irrelevant with bungie's balancing and overall changes model. They wait for DLCs to come out and patch E V E R Y T H I N G at once with, very obviously; little to no testing. This is really a whole different issue. It's a combination of pretend "pro players" in the destiny community and the generally awful skill level at bungie Q/A

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                      • I don't feel bad at all. For how the game's gear, progression, loot system and end game structure is put together it is very much like an MMO. Sure it may not be massive but to me that is the only argument people can really make against it being more similar to that genre. I do agree though I would like to see them do bigger larger expansions that last a year consisting of 2 or 3 raids that we gradually progress through. The only thing that is lacking in Destiny to me is the difficulty of End Game PvE content and gearing. It's something I think they still need to work on. In game's like WoW, Wildstar, The Secret World, and SWTOR it was much longer process because of the amount of people you had to coordinate and just the shear difficulty of the raids in those games. Not to mention you had to compete with people of the same class or even role as you for gear. To me honestly Destiny is a very casual easy MMO type game to progress and play. It's one of the reasons I have been debating no longer playing because I get through the content and end game content so fast there isn't anything left for me to really push for as far as achieving in the game. All in all I understand why people say it's not an MMO but I honestly think it depends on who you talk to person to person as to what they feel the game is. Good Post.

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                        • Many bumps

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                        • Well said. It's really been hitting me hard that there's practically nothing I did Y1 that gives me a better starting place than a Y2 noob. Especially since most of our exotic do not appear to be evergreen (pardon the metaphor).

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                          • Edited by Megaman: 9/5/2015 8:18:11 AM
                            "I don't want to live on this planet anymore." Bump.

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                          • Excellent post!! I'd also add that people use the mmo gear being replaced thing too much, as in mmos the gear being replaced is really just a Stat bar however destiny is first and foremost an fps a SHOOTER we get attached to our guns you can't just leave them behind every 4 months because you need a payday and don't feel like actually working for it lol

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                            • Not just a matter of progression. I just don't think exotics should be left behind period.

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