originally posted in:The Killworthy Gamers
Hello fellow Guardians! I'd like to thank you for participating in the Killworthy Gaming community, and helping us figure out the hidden secrets of Destiny. This is my first post here, and I hope you'll enjoy.
So as we all know, "The Dark Below" DLC is coming out tomorrow. I personally can't wait for it, as it regards my theory. So we all know a bit about that overload Hive leader, Crota. But do we really know his origins?
I've been researching a whole lot about this guy for quite a bit, and I believe I've struck gold with my theory. Before I start though I would like to apologize if you also thought up this theory or it already existed before this post. But here we go.
So this first piece of evidence is the main reason to why I believe Crota, and maybe even the rest (or most) of the Hive were once Guardians. In the Grimoire card "Ghost Fragment: Warlock 2", Eriana-3, a Praxic Warlock, interrogates a Hive Wizard, and what she finds out in the Wizard's mind is pure gold for this theory. She says in this card,
[i]"It showed me the battle. It showed me Wei Ning dead on Crota's blade. It showed me how Crota killed a Guardian with a screaming knife hammered out of his own [b][u]Ghost[/u][/b]."[/i]
Wait a second. Ghost? Ghosts are only used by Guardians, and each Guardian owns his/her own Ghost. They aren't available for purchase by anyone either, and especially not for the Hive and rest of the Darkness. So I, myself can strongly believe that Crota was once in fact a Guardian. Another interesting detail is that before Eriana figures this out about Crota, she states,
[i]"It responds to the Light. Hurt it again."[/i]
This stands as an ambiguity, or double meaning, meaning that the Hive Wizard not only dislikes the Light as a Darkness, but also responds and maybe even listens to it. So does this mean that the Hive Wizard, just like Crota, may have been a Guardian once before? We really don't know yet, but how did Crota and the Hive Wizard really come to be what they are now (Hive)? The official cinematic trailer for "The Dark Below" DLC sheds us more light on why they may have came to be what they are now. Although we do have some more key parts of this Grimoire card still left to cover. Eriana also states in her story that,
[i]"It (the Hive Wizard) laughed at me. It said we were the same."[/i]
Does this mean that the Hive Wizard was once a Guardian just like Eriana also? This only adds to the belief that most of the Hive were once Guardians also. But here we have our final quote from this card, where Eriana says,
[i]"Kill the Wizard. Scatter the ash. It has nothing but lies to offer."[/i]
From this bit our theory gets a little scrambled, as this could mean everything we learned from the Hive Wizard is false. But this could just have been something Eriana said as an instinct due to her fear and/or misbelief of what the Wizard told her (which was really true in reality). Anyways onto the official trailer.
[url=http://youtu.be/nk1p34lAol8]Destiny's Official "The Dark Below" DLC Trailer[/url]
So this piece of evidence is my personal speculation, although many of you may also specuIate this also. It comes from the cinematic trailer for "The Dark Below" DLC, and in it Eris says,
[i]"Six of us went down into the pit. Only one, crawled out. I am Eris, the last...He (Crota) took everything from me."[/i]
Now this gives us an open interpretation to what it means. Does she mean by losing her fellow Guardians that everything was taken from her? Or does it mean something else, like her Light, her personality, or even her soul were taken? And we have to consider how she now appears. No Guardian in the game looks like she does, so did something or someone change her?
Another good piece of evidence for this is in the "Ghost Fragment: Hive 2" Grimoire card. In this card a Guardian tells his/her story about the end of his/her life when a Hive Wizard supposedly kills her. In the story he/she tells, the Guardian says,
[i]"They (the Hive) have me clamped to this spire while a black foulness eats my Light."[/i]
Does this mean that he/she could be turning into a Hive, due to some reliogious ritual or simply the natural darkness of the Hive? The Guardian also says,
[i]"They draw from another force, something that corrupts, that distorts, that eats and will not be satisfied."[/i]
Is it just me or does this sound like it's becoming some religious ritual, "feeding" a force that corrupts and distorts? Maybe they're referring to Oryx, the god that the Hive worship? We do not know as of now, but it sounds like whatever this force is, it does have the power to "change" Guardians, creatures, or other beings. The final part of the Grimoire card is what interests me most, which is when this Guardian says,
[i]"I am fading. I have no more it can take."[/i]
Sounds to me like this compares very greatly to Eris's (official) speech in the trailer, when she says that,
[i]"He took everything from me."[/i]
What we (or I, at least) speculate is that the Hive are taking the Light from these Guardians, and due to this it probably means they are becoming Darkness, or in this case Hive.
So in conclusion, it really comes down to personal belief. Out of all this evidence I've gone through, I can easily believe that Crota and possibly the rest (if not most) of the Hive were once Guardians, changed by the Darkness, Oryx, or some other entity or object. But the proof here is just crazy. I really hope that when I play "The Dark Below" tomorrow, this is what will be confirmed for me. But let me know what you guys think, and if you have any more evidence or details I left out and/or need to be added, please let me know. I have not yet played the Dark Below DLC either (This will be updated when I have), so if those lucky streamers or youtubers get on it early to play it through, please let me know what happens! I will most definitely be on tomorrow though, to see what happens with my theory. For now, keep on fighting the Darkness, Guardians!
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Edited by lardnicus: 11/30/2015 4:22:26 AMI know this was posted almost a year ago now, but take a look at all that's happened in The Taken King, the most significant being that we had to drink Crota's soul become ascendent to get anywhere near Oryx... And as the raid gear slowly gets equipped, I'm witnessing a transformation among my fireteams (and probably myself) to the point where I have on several occasions now been shooting at fellow guardians by mistake... I made the observation last night on chat and a friend paraphrased Nietzsche. [i]"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." [/i]— Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil Stay weary, fellow guardians. Keep your light safe!
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Not convinced at all. You seem to just be twisting words and misinterpreting grimoire on purpose, aside from ignoring in game evidence.
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I had to stop reading after the Crota killed someone with his own Ghost. ... It was clearly the Guardian's ghost, not Crota's. Not saying your theory isn't viable, but you'll definitely want to lead your argument with something that isn't so blatantly wrong.
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Looking for a hard Crota cp on xone. Message for Inv. Have 4 ppl so don't need a team. Just a cp. hit me up. Gt: X13eyond13irthX
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Necrobumped XD
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That's deep bro
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Read thorn lore. Dredgen Yor turns into a wizard after his Last Word is turned into Thorn
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The Hive Were Guardians Just Like Us, BUT when the darkness came the hive were too powerful to defeat so the darkness infused itself to them & when they went to corrupt the traveler it left. [spoiler]Just found this post lol [/spoiler]
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That means the hive the flood 2.0
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I have to say that I believe they were once but your reasons are flawed. Crota made the blade of his victim's ghost not his own. This is not your fault as the english language is vague at best. Second the wizard eats the light as pointed out elsewhere. But yes I believe they were. In the hive/fallen similarities video it points out that they may be darkness mutated fallen. I believe that the traveler made them and betrayed them leading to their mutation into what we now know as the hive. This is a short version of my theory if you'd like I'll make a separate thread of full theory and reasonings later on.
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if your theory is true could it possibly be that only things like wizards and knights.
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It makes sense since Eris is pale and has three eyes now. She was corrupted and was being turned but escaped deformed.
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Some of this does make sense in the fact that the hive turn guardians into their own if you look at the warlock armor from the crota raid it looks like the witches the titan looks like the knights and the hunters cursed thralls.
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You do know crota is the son of orxy. And the hive have taken many worlds.
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You are really taking many of these phrases out of context. The blade was hammered out of a Ghost and used to kill the Guardian whom owned the Ghost. "-his own Ghost." The Wizard was showing her visions of all the Guardians killed, "we were the same" = they were going to suffer the same fate. You're doing a disservice by taking out poorly-cut snippets of lore.
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This theory assumes that we are older than the hive though. The gigantic library, The World's Grave, seems to contradict this. The hundreds of worlds and civilizations they've devoured, all of their remnants are in this library. The Hive are also described as a, "impossibly ancient race." When the game first came out, people were saying the Vex were created by guardians, but their shrines are 100 times older than the earth. If anything, I think any similarities are because The Traveler and The Darkness are both of the same essence. Or as the Grimoire puts it, The Darkness is a "mirror" of The Traveler. As the old saying goes, "the brightest lights have the darkest shadow"
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Theoretically, Crota is Oryx's son. This doesn't however, take away from your theory, as Oryx could have moulded a strong guardian into a powerful hive knight, and named it his son, giving it godly powers.
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Great theory, really made me think. The only statement that I found error with is from Ghost fragment Hive 2. The wizard is interrogating a Ghost not a Guardian. Here are a few quotes that support this: [quote]At the doors to the Temple he fell for the last time. He fell, and I could not reach him.[/quote] In reference to his Guardian. [quote]The Wizard comes now and then to probe with her scaly claws into my systems, to inquire about my making, the City, what I have seen. I erase and dump as quickly as I can - they will learn little from me - but I am studying them, I know - pain.[/quote] The Wizard is trying to figure out how he is made and is stealing his data. This is why he is trying to delete as much as he can before it gains his knowledge. Awesome post.
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Hammered out of the guardian's Ghost. Not Crota's. Fail.
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Did you ever read the thorn grimoires? The hive are guardians and probably fallen and cabal aswell
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The knife from the ghost means the guardian'a ghost was turned into a knife by Crota.
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Your main reason is false lol... while the other things match up... and it could very well be true... But the crota killed the guardian with his ghost as in the guardians own ghost... not crotas.
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It dosnt change anything it just gives me more of a reason to destroy the HIVE ( LOUD WAR CRY )
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Something else to add to your theory: The blade of crota which was said to have been used by him at some point is a man sized object which could mean he was once a man or at least a normal (Knight) hive size at one point. In the trailer he seems very large and with a new or at least larger sword. Taking info from the phogoth and ogre grimoire cards suggests that ogres can be reborn when they are given purpose which is why we have phogoth now. The same could be true about the rest of the hive including Crota.
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Interesting...
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I've looked into this as well. I believe that the hive are guardians that were consumed by the darkness. My interpretation of those particular grimiore cards lead me to believe the same thing.