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Edited by burritosenior:
6/22/2014 5:58:36 AM
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Using games Call of Duty and The Division as an example of IPs that have timed exclusive content is ridiculous, and completely ignores the historical significance of this particular example. You'll notice people don't complain nearly as much about those games having such content, if at all. Now why do you suppose that is? Well, I'll tell you. It's because the developers for those titles didn't create a market on a particular platform. For this video to claim that the fact that Bungie developed exclusively for the Xbox is irrelevant shows a complete disregard to the historical significance of this problem as well. I don't know if this person is new to the community or what, but that is wholly disrespectful to make such a statement as that.
Halo was THE Xbox game. It revolutionized the FPS genre in multiple ways, and cultivated a fanbase both around Halo and, more specifically, around Bungie. When Halo 3 released, it was on the Xbox 360. There were actually many people that followed Bungie to the console because they put out great products- not just people that followed Halo. Therefore, while switching to Playstation as a focus for their content, they are essentially forgetting about those people that followed them in the past, who developed a decade's worth of friendships and experiences on another platform largely due to Bungie.
I've said this before and I'll say it again- nobody was complaining about Bungie including the Playstation with Destiny. Fans on the forums were actually PLEASED, because it meant Bungie was growing and would have a larger fanbase. The issue is that they aren't being treated equally- they're being treated BETTER. And after a decade of giving your all to Bungie as a fan of the company instead of the game, that is a very hard pill to swallow. Xbox fans were not asking for exclusive content because of their history with Bungie. Xbox fans were expecting equality.
This video goes on to talk about how it is a good business decision. And from a money standpoint, it is... for Sony. And Activision. Not Bungie. And I don't understand how anybody could possibly say 'because it made them more money as a business decision, it is not a betrayal.' Excuse me? That's absolutely idiotic to say! Since when does profit determine morality? I'll tell you when: Since never.
Insomniac games making games for Playstation then making an Xbone exclusive? Yeah, that sucks. But guess what? That doesn't suddenly make it acceptable or make it any less of a betrayal that a completely different company is doing nearly the same thing. Again, a really stupid thing to imply otherwise. Later, he goes on to say he would request Sunset Overdrive were only on playstation, but doesn't because he is a 'rational human being.' To which I reply... an ignorant one. This, my friends, is a classic example of somebody only hearing what they want to hear. You see, this user seems to be completely ignoring the fact that Xbox users are NOT asking that Destiny be exclusive to the Xbox One. They are NOT asking that they be given exclusive content instead. What Xbox users ARE asking for is that everybody be given the SAME content. And for this video to say that such talk is irrational? This seems like a very ignorant and close-minded person.
Edit: Please note that 5 hours later, this subthread has far too many replies for me to get to everybody. Too many people are replying to random posts and Bungie.net's layout is not conductive of a large discussion. Since notifications only link me to the most recent reply, it is very likely I will miss a lot of you because the subthread is too long and too confusing to scroll through, now. Apologies to those I seemingly ignore.
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I agree that in an ideal world everyone would be on an equal footing in regards to content and whatever else people are moaning about these days, but this isn't an ideal world. I don't understand why people expect 'loyalty'? Bungie simply make a product, sell it to the consumer who then uses it, transaction complete, end of. They are not obligated to conform to your every whim, unless the product is faulty, or forever sweeten you up. You are simply buying something you like, and they strive to keep you coming back for more with future products. At the end of the day it is up to you to put your money down. When I buy my shopping, groceries etc I don't complain about loyalty because my regular supermarket did not match a rival supermarkets offer for my favourite brand of whatever. They'd just tell me to 'go to that supermarket, then'.
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Edited by burritosenior: 6/23/2014 4:39:29 PM[quote]I don't understand why people expect 'loyalty'?[/quote]Because Bungie was a community focused company that specifically worked to GAIN loyalty. Literally- that was their business method. And now they are abandoning that. Hence the issue. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=62621067]You can find a more detailed explanation to your question here[/url]. Cheers.
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Ok, so you are heavily invested in Bungie and the 'community', I have nothing but respect for that and I would like to think I'll be a respected member in the future also. I too have invested a lot of time and money in to Bungie developments, Halo in particular. I would say I'm a Bungie fan, I pre-ordered Destiny at the earliest opportunity last year simply because Bungie was developing it. So I do care, is my point. But as far as I am concerned Bungire owe me nothing. I purchased they're product, played it and reaped countless hours of fun and fond memories with my brother and friends and it's all down to Bungie. They have fulfilled their end of the bargain as far as I'm concerned. Have they ever made a point of telling you that you will receive whatever benefits or privileges you think you are owed in return for your loyalty or continued custom? Or are you expecting from them what think you are entitled to yourself? That's the question. . .
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[quote] Have they ever made a point of telling you that you will receive whatever benefits or privileges you think you are owed in return for your loyalty or continued custom?[/quote]Well... yes they have, actually. They made many claims during 2011-2013 in the period we call the 'Darkness' that our loyalty would be rewarded. We haven't heard about it since. It's more the principle of the thing than actually getting anything, though. I don't want exclusive content just for being here necessarily. I want equal content that everybody can get- even if that means working for it by participating in the community or something.
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Well that still sounds a bit vague to me, I suppose we could all read in to that sort of statement differently. Anyway, I wholeheartedly agree that everyone should be on an equal footing. They're only upsetting people this way.
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Couldn't agree more
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How is this any different to you pre ordering on the destiny website, then finding out that if you preorder with gamestop you get a customised sparrow?
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[quote]How is this any different to you pre ordering on the destiny website, then finding out that if you preorder with gamestop you get a customised sparrow?[/quote] Because Gamestop does not have a decades long tradition of community focus and instead does these things regularly? In addition, preorders can be moved without cost or any impact on the consumer? The 'history of the company' is literally the entire defining factor of what makes this unique from every other example. Hence the section of my post regarding using other games as examples.
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[quote]The 'history of the company' is literally the entire defining factor of what makes this unique from every other example.[/quote] Ah yes the company that started on Mac, then developed on PlayStation. Haven't had a new IP on PlayStation for 10 years. How dare they try and give PlayStation players an incentive to dip their toe in the sea of bungie.
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[quote]Ah yes the company that started on Mac, then developed on PlayStation. Haven't had a new IP on PlayStation for 10 years. How dare they try and give PlayStation players an incentive to dip their toe in the sea of bungie.[/quote]One game on Playstation, that's it. Not a cultivated community. As for Mac? It's addressed [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=62621067]in another post[/url]. It's an argument nobody gives any credit to anyways, but I felt like addressing it regardless.
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[quote] Halo was THE Xbox game. It revolutionized the FPS genre in multiple ways, and cultivated a fanbase both around Halo and, more specifically, around Bungie. When Halo 3 released, it was on the Xbox 360. There were actually many people that followed Bungie to the console because they put out great products- not just people that followed Halo. Therefore, while switching to Playstation as a focus for their content, they are essentially forgetting about those people that followed them in the past, who developed a decade's worth of friendships and experiences on another platform largely due to Bungie.[/quote] This argument makes no sense. I followed bungie to Xbox 360. I've had one since launch. Never owned a ps3. Now I own a ps4. Bungie didn't make anyone buy an Xbox one. They have no allegiance to Xbox. Sony helped them out, they helped Sony out. Its as simple as that.
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[quote] This argument makes no sense.[/quote]Yes, it does. I'll explain it again for you though, no problem. Bungie was a community oriented company. Their business focus was on their community- cultivating it. They actively TRIED To get their fans to follow them by being so community focused. The fanbase was what they revolved around. Abruptly, they abandoned that principle. Through Bungie's interactions with the community, people here on Bungie.net made friendships. I understand you are new to Bungie.net, but you have to keep in mind people have been here for over a decade. We have had real friends we've met in person, stopped people from committing suicides, we've had people important to us die, and through everything the community became closer and more important to each other. Developed bonds to the point where 95 spots on a friends list on XBL would be filled with Bnet people for many. They established themselves and gave themselves to that community- all revolving around Bungie. Suddenly they abandoned those people that they worked so hard to gain the loyalty of. Essentially these people became second class citizens. And Bungie abandoning those years of community interaction that meant the world to people is a hard and a sickening thing to watch. That is why people were upset. And that is why when people say that this argument is somehow 'wrong' after understanding this, I cannot help but think of them as either terrible people, or just plain asshats. Because to disregard so many people is not a good thing- no matter how much money it gets you. If you would like more information as to how the argument 'makes sense,' then you are welcome to [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=62621067] read a more detailed version of the argument here[/url]. I followed bungie to Xbox 360. I've had one since launch. Never owned a ps3. Now I own a ps4. Bungie didn't make anyone buy an Xbox one. They have no allegiance to Xbox. Sony helped them out, they helped Sony out. Its as simple as that.[/quote]
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Edited by Tyger: 6/23/2014 5:01:19 PMHow did they abandon those people? Nothing is stopping them from buying a playstation. They can play destiny on [b]any[/b] console. Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS3, PS4, and probably PC eventually. That's still a weak argument at best. Also thank you for taking the time to formulate a long coherent response. I see this has A LOT of replies
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[quote]How did they abandon those people?[/quote]By ignoring their existence. Go find me a time when Bungie has mentioned Destiny and Xbox without being directly asked about it in an interview. I'll give you multiple examples of when they haven't for each. It's about those fans Bungie spent years on being ignored. And that hurts.[quote] [quote]Nothing is stopping them from buying a playstation. They can play destiny on [b]any[/b] console. Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS3, PS4, and probably PC eventually. [/quote]I talked about this already. Because of Bungie, people developed a decades worth of friendships and interests on one platform- because that was what Bungie revolved around. So essentially what we were left with is "you can either abandon a decades worth of investment you did only largely because of us, or you can be treated like you don't exist.'[quote]Through Bungie's interactions with the community, people here on Bungie.net made friendships. I understand you are new to Bungie.net, but you have to keep in mind people have been here for over a decade. We have had real friends we've met in person, stopped people from committing suicides, we've had people important to us die, and through everything the community became closer and more important to each other. Developed bonds to the point where 95 spots on a friends list on XBL would be filled with Bnet people for many. They established themselves and gave themselves to that community- all revolving around Bungie. Suddenly they abandoned those people that they worked so hard to gain the loyalty of. Essentially these people became second class citizens. And Bungie abandoning those years of community interaction that meant the world to people is a hard and a sickening thing to watch. That is why people were upset. And that is why when people say that this argument is somehow 'wrong' after understanding this, I cannot help but think of them as either terrible people, or just plain asshats. Because to disregard so many people is not a good thing- no matter how much money it gets you. [/quote] [quote] Also thank you for taking the time to formulate a long coherent response. I see this has A LOT of replies[/quote]Well thank you for not saying I am somehow 'retarded.' That seems to be the most common word getting thrown at me here. But yeah, Bungie.net is not really conductive to large conversations so I keep missing posts I never responded to simply because the layout is so confusing. Kinda a bummer.
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Your argument just simply has no backing whatsoever. The way you are coming across, it seems as if you think that anyone that owns a playstation now has never had an xbox, never been part of halo, never been on the bungie forums. You are narrow minded in your assumption that Xboners are the only fans of halo. I've got just about every console from the Super-nes up over. I hold allegiance to the games, not the consoles. You don't thank Colonel Sanders for his Chicken. You thank the people who cook the food in the store. Bungie make games, you like the games. Bungie has made the game for All current and next gen consoles. The ONLY difference is timed consoles and 4 more days of beta (Fair enough the alpha would have been nice). The same game ships at launch. It's the same game on the disk. You can still go to all the same places that PS players can. NOTHING is restricted. My point earlier is that if you preorder your game at one place, you don't get anything, if you preorder something somewhere else and you get extra content. It's not a different disk, it's a piece of card with a code on it. Much like a preorder bonus. So it's not the shop that changes in the example, it's the console. You will still get everything PS get in terms of a game.
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[quote]Your argument just simply has no backing whatsoever. [/quote]If you ignore the dozens to hundreds of pages of post, then you're right. [quote]The way you are coming across, it seems as if you think that anyone that owns a playstation now has never had an xbox, never been part of halo, never been on the bungie forums. [/quote]That isn't true. [quote]You are narrow minded in your assumption that Xboners are the only fans of halo. [/quote]It has nothing to do with Halo. You don't understand the argument if that's what you think. [quote] Bungie make games, you like the games. Bungie has made the game for All current and next gen consoles. The ONLY difference is timed consoles and 4 more days of beta (Fair enough the alpha would have been nice). The same game ships at launch. It's the same game on the disk. [b]You can still go to all the same places that PS players can. NOTHING is restricted.[/b][/quote]Except for the areas we can't go and the restrictions based on our console, sure. [quote] My point earlier is that if you preorder your game at one place, you don't get anything, if you preorder something somewhere else and you get extra content. It's not a different disk, it's a piece of card with a code on it. Much like a preorder bonus. So it's not the shop that changes in the example, it's the console.[/quote]What you just said has no relevance because it fails to take into account the historical significance of the decisions. That is literally the entire argument. Friend, I encourage you to read over some of my posts so you can get a better understanding of what the issue actually is.
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Edited by Ben3ta: 6/24/2014 7:44:08 AM[quote]If you ignore the dozens to hundreds of pages of post, then you're right. [/quote] Hundreds of pages of entitled, whining, misinformed consumers. [quote][quote]The way you are coming across, it seems as if you think that anyone that owns a playstation now has never had an xbox, never been part of halo, never been on the bungie forums. [/quote]That isn't true. [/quote] You've mentioned multiple times about them abandoning/ignoring their original fanbase. This inlcludes myself and over a third of new PS4 players, all originally from Xbox roots. [quote]For this video to claim that the fact that Bungie developed [b]exclusively[/b] for the Xbox is irrelevant shows a complete disregard to the historical significance of this problem as well [/quote] They were... (drumroll please.... ) Developing it under a signed contract agreement with microsoft *cue party poppers and streamers* for sole exclusivity. Microsoft did it for ten years. An exclusive game only to their console. Playstation get an extra strike mission, extra armour an weapons that aren't even exclusive. Honestly can't see why you're so upset. They are doing it under a contractual obligation. [quote] Bungie make games, you like the games. Bungie has made the game for All current and next gen consoles. The ONLY difference is timed consoles and 4 more days of beta (Fair enough the alpha would have been nice). The same game ships at launch. It's the same game on the disk. You can still go to all the same places that PS players can. NOTHING is restricted [/quote][quote] [b]Except for the areas we can't go and the restrictions based on our console, sure. [/b][/quote] What restrictions? Go on name them. If you pick up the disk straight out of the box for both consoles and put it in the console, you will have exactly the same content. [quote][quote] My point earlier is that if you preorder your game at one place, you don't get anything, if you preorder something somewhere else and you get extra content. It's not a different disk, it's a piece of card with a code on it. Much like a preorder bonus. So it's not the shop that changes in the example, it's the console.[/quote]What you just said has no relevance because it fails to take into account the historical significance of the decisions. That is literally the entire argument. Friend, I encourage you to read over some of my posts so you can get a better understanding of what the issue actually is.[/quote]You piss and moan about all the history and background to bungie. They owe you nothing. As a consumer and not a shareholder, you are buying a product. In the same way that coca cola owe you nothing, Mcdonalds owe you zilch, hell, even Microsoft owe you diddly squat. Answer me these questions; Have you ever moved to a new job for more money? Do you do what your boss tells you? Why did you pick Xbox over PS? Do you have a younger brother or sister? Have you ever made a new friend, if so have you ever made them feel welcome? Why can't you let this go?
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[quote]Hundreds of pages of entitled, whining, misinformed consumers.[/quote]Hundreds of pages of justified, upset, and informed consumers. [quote] You've mentioned multiple times about them abandoning/ignoring their original fanbase. This inlcludes myself and over a third of new PS4 players, all originally from Xbox roots.[/quote]Those of you that switched are being acknowledged. Those that have not are not. It's that simple. [quote] They were... (drumroll please.... ) Developing it under a signed contract agreement with microsoft *cue party poppers and streamers* for sole exclusivity. Microsoft did it for ten years. An exclusive game only to their console.[/quote]Indeed. [quote] Playstation get an extra strike mission, extra armour an weapons that aren't even exclusive. Honestly can't see why you're so upset. They are doing it under a contractual obligation.[/quote]It is different. For one, if you viewed [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=62621067]the linked thread[/url], it is very well explained why the switch from other platforms to the Xbox was not the same as Xbox/ 360 to Playstation. Second, Microsoft owned Bungie. Bungie is now independent, and entered the Activision contract of their own free will whereas they had to be purchased by Microsoft to develop at all. The difference being that while Bungie wants to expand today, they are fully capable of doing so without it being at the expense of their already established community. I don't understand how you can't see why people are upset. It is one thing to say that you are not upset- quite another to say you can't even [i]see[/i] why people are upset. [quote] What restrictions? Go on name them. If you pick up the disk straight out of the box for both consoles and put it in the console, you will have exactly the same content.[/quote]Exodus Blue and the Dust Palace. [quote]You piss and moan about all the history and background to bungie. They owe you nothing. As a consumer and not a shareholder, you are buying a product. In the same way that coca cola owe you nothing, Mcdonalds owe you zilch, hell, even Microsoft owe you diddly squat. [/quote]I have not once claimed I am 'owed' anything. You do not need to be so rude. Furthermore, it is about Bungie's community orientation. Again, the crux of the argument that you have failed to comprehend post after post.
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You still didnt answer these. [quote]Answer me these questions; Have you ever moved to a new job for more money? Do you do what your boss tells you? Why did you pick Xbox over PS? Do you have a younger brother or sister? Have you ever made a new friend, if so have you ever made them feel welcome? Why can't you let this go? [/quote]
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[quote]Those of you that switched are being acknowledged. [i]Those that have not are not.[/i] It's that simple.[/quote] How are you not, it's a timed exclusive. Timed for gods sake. Microsoft started the whole timed exclusive thing. [quote] Microsoft [b]owned[/b] Bungie. Bungie is now independent, and entered the Activision contract [b]of their own free will[/b] whereas they had to be [i]purchased by Microsoft to develop at all[/i]. The difference being that while Bungie wants to expand today, they are fully capable of doing so without it being at the expense of their already established community.[/quote] Microsoft owned them... The community exists through microsoft. If microsoft hadn't paid for exclusivity, the community would have been bigger to start off with. Microsoft made them make the game and community that way. Your obligation regarding halo is to microsoft not bungie. As you said, bungie wasn't an independent developer, they were under microsofts umbrella, bungie didn't market the game, microsoft did. They are independent and can develop freely. PS offered them money, they entered a contract for extra loot. [quote][quote] What restrictions? Go on name them. If you pick up the disk straight out of the box for both consoles and put it in the console, you will have exactly the same content.[/quote]Exodus Blue and the Dust Palace.[/quote] This is the bit you fail to understand. The disk content is EXACTLY THE SAME. If you buy the game new or second hand at any retail store or anywhere for any of the four consoles, the disk content is exactly the -blam!-ing same. The only difference is a slip of paper in the box, not on the disk. That we put a code in and get some extra shit, not stuff you wont get. We get extra shit for a few months, then you get it too.
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Community orientation? We are all a community. A lot of us are getting the content early. A lot of the community are getting it early not [b]Only[/b], early. Exodus blue and dust palace are [b] Timed exclusives [/b] Are you stateside or UK based?
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[quote]Community orientation? We are all a community. A lot of us are getting the content early. A lot of the community are getting it early not [b]Only[/b], early. Exodus blue and dust palace are [b] Timed exclusives [/b][/quote]Right. Half the community. The part they're paying attention to. Hence the entire point. They aren't paying attention to literally half their community unless it is in a way not related to the game itself (i.e. forum posts not related to the topic) or they are directly asked about it.
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Right discussing this with you is like pissing in the wind. It is an incentive to entice a new fan base. You know, similar to when companies give new customers 10% Off their first purchase.
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[quote]Right discussing this with you is like pissing in the wind.[/quote]No need to be so rude. [quote] It is an incentive to entice a new fan base. [/quote]Which can be done without alienating half the fanbase.
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There is need because you are just moaning for no reason. Every time someone makes a justified point you ignore it completely.
