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4/16/2014 6:42:58 PM
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A serious (and long) post about Marty.

First of all, don't click the link until you've gotten to the appropriate comment. Secondly, I'm relatively new. I joined in Nov 2010 and this only my second original post. The first was earlier this morning. Third, this is going to be long. If any of these things means you don't want to hear what I have to say, please go on your way. But if you are still interested, please continue. When I woke up this morning and saw the news that Marty had been fired, I was sad. Now I am disgusted. But I am in no way disgusted with Bungie. I am instead disgusted by the ignorance of some of the community. So this post is attempting to remedy this ignorance. Here we go. [b]1. Marty is not coming back.[/b] He has been fired by the company and the company will not take him back if a few hundred, or even a few thousand fans say so. And the reason is because we are [i]fans[/i], not stockholders. An analogy, if you will: Recently the owner of the Buffalo Bills, Ralph Wilson, passed away. This leaves his wife as sole owner. There has been talk of the team moving to the West Coast, or some other place out of state. If the owner decides to sell the team, the fans can do nothing. They have no right to do anything, because they have no say in the business, they only buy products (tickets). If Bungie chooses to fire an employee you can't do anything about it because you only buy products (the game). [b]2. Destiny's soundtrack will be the same at launch as it was April 10th.[/b] Marty O'Donnell does not own any of the rights to Destiny's music. Bungie does. Therefore the music that he has already composed will be in the final product of the game without any legal ramifications. Bungie is entirely within their rights to do this. [b]3. Future Destiny games will have the same sound as this one.[/b] I'm a composer, so I know a bit about this. It is very easy to create new music in the same vein as a composer you've never even spoken to. It is easy to do this and still incorporate your own style and personal tweaks. Additionally, future titles will include the same major themes as the first, so not a lot of new writing will occur. [b]4. Terminated without cause does not mean terminated for no reason.[/b] Radical Edward has covered this very well in another thread, which I linked up at the top. I encourage you to click the link and scroll down to his comment for a really clear definition of termination without cause. The next point is closely related. [b]5. You do not need to know the reason.[/b] I've seen several posts urging members of the community to cancel their preorders and boycott Destiny until the reason for Marty's termination is brought to light. Quite simply, it's none of your business. Marty's termination is between him and Bungie. It is a private matter, and by demanding to know the reason you are intruding on Marty's private life. Imagine, if you will, a clamoring group of gamer fans pounding and your front door saying, "Why did you get fired, Marty? Huh? Why did you get fired? Tell us! Tell us!" Now I know you aren't asking Marty directly, but the end result is the same. If Marty wanted to tell us, he would. If Bungie wanted to tell us, they would. Neither group wants to right now, so neither group has. I'm sure eventually it will be pried out into the open by some "journalist" but until then, leave well enough alone. [b]6. Bungie did not wrong you.[/b] It's entirely possible that Bungie did not wrong anyone, but they certainly did not cause you any harm. Some of the anger I have seen in recent posts seems to suggest that some people have taken this change as a personal affront, as though Marty being fired is a smack in the face to the fans. Let me assure you, you were the furthest thing from anyone's mind when the decision was made to fire Marty. These are the things that you think about when removing someone from your company, in no particular order: Work environment, money, the employee (if you're nice). That's about it. You think about how this will effect the people already working under you, you think about whether this will save or cost you money, and you might think about the person you're firing if you're the empathetic sort. No one thought, "The community loves Marty, so let's fire him because we don't care about the community anymore." [b]7. Bungie is not dissolving, or folding, or falling apart because two people left.[/b] Bungie is growing. They have more employees than they have ever had before. Related to this is the fact that no one is irreplaceable. Bungie will still be Bungie without Marty. It will be different, but it will still exist, and thrive just as before. All of that to say this: Be sad. Change your avatar. Reminisce about Marty's work, honor him by remembering. Let him know, let the world know how much his work at Bungie has meant to you. Be excited for his future. But don't presume to know all the facts, don't pick sides in a non-existent war. Don't start boycotts and protests when the only solid information we have is this: "I'm saddened to say that Bungie's board of directors terminated me without cause on April 11, 2014." That is the only reliable information that we have obtained, and to lay blame based on that alone is ridiculous. Thanks for making it through this long post. I'll brace for reprisal now. In fair warning, I probably won't respond to very many comments.

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  • 1. Yeah. Fans have no impact on the decisions of large companies. Not at all. Look at how the fan backlash against the Xbox One did nothing to change Microsoft's mind. Right? The last few years have proven many times over that companies are willing to pay heed to customer reaction. 3. I can't begin to explain how wrong you are, on just about every level. What kind of composer are you? I'd wager your credentials are pretty humble. I spent over a decade as a song writer and I still earn a considerable amount in royalties and you are wrong, wrong, just plain wrong. I'll save my fingers from typing the scathing rebuttal I want to and just say that this entire point is insulting to Marty. The rest of your post I pretty much agree with, and it was nicely written and well thought out. Major props.

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  • Edited by aaronadkins.: 4/17/2014 7:12:25 PM
    [b]"3. Future Destiny games will have the same sound as this one."[/b] What a crock, I'm sorry but it's true. Your attempt to create an anecdotal example is beyond wrong to apply here. People have thousands of different techniques, methods, sounds they prefer and so on. You're not going to re-create new music in the same sense that Marty would have. You can copy familiar soundtracks, you might be able to take pieces out of it and do some study, but to guess that the soundtracks will have the same sound based on you being... a composer? No. [b]"5. You do not need to know the reason."[/b] Actually Bungie has always been looked at as a company of transparency, if you're arguing that they're becoming like a standard business you might as well call the entire community robots. The fact that it was brought to light by Marty in a Twitter means that the information is loose in a sense, maybe not all of it, but enough to actually comment on it on a public forum (twitter) tells you a lot. [b]"7. Bungie is not dissolving, or folding, or falling apart because two people left."[/b] Well, I'm not going to disagree by all means, but to absolutely state this is bullcrap. We've seen tons of companies suffer from even a loss of less than 5 people. Look at the down-fall Rare, Infinity Ward, Insomniac, and so on. Games are an art-form. A recognized style is established. Take away the columns of that art project and you can get a pretty different (for better or for worse) execution of a project. Look at 343i's Halo and Bungie's for example.

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    • Omg people he's fired can't don't shit about it enjoy ur self don't spend all ur f ing time trying find out this guy wrote a whole fricken novel about it none that did that move on

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    • NO. YOU ARE A DAY OLDER THAN ME. -blam!-.

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    • Edited by Danny Mangina: 4/16/2014 10:11:08 PM
      But how else am I supposed to justify my pathetic teenage entitlement? Everything is about me, after all.

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      • [Shilling Intensifies]

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      • Edited by C U STRSIDE FGT: 4/16/2014 6:49:23 PM
        [quote]I'm a composer, so I know[/quote] Stopped reading there.

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      • Edited by The Grizzled Ancient: 4/18/2014 1:45:59 AM
        "Secondly, I'm relatively new." Yeah, we're not gonna see eye-to-eye on this.

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      • -blam!- Marty give us the beta I font care if there's only crickets and birds chirping the whole damn time

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      • After a day or 2 I've started to think rationally about this. I really want to know what Marty could've done to be fired since he was such a great composer and was with bungie for so long, but there is no way someone can be fired for no reason. I want to know why he was fired, but I guess that's just not something they would tell us.

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      • Edited by No one important: 4/17/2014 1:57:40 PM
        They fired Marty and Ousted Joe to get the work they were doing. Its wrong but hey the Board can do what they like right ? See this is what the Op does not understand. We know the reason why but does it make it less wrong ? You can live with it but poor Marty and other people fans and those who buy the game will get a pile of crap game the next three down the line. Sure they can hire two other composers. What the board is going to fire mike next ? Paul who made is fortune as a Beetle and solo artist ? Its ok for money grubbers to fire people and threaten other people with doom so they can retain the rights not having to care about the artist who makes it ? Yep i guess this is what it comes to. " Hey nice work hey we are going to fire you and do what we like with it ok ?" Fires op and takes his work. I mean are we not the Consumer ?

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        • Liked, followed, message sent to mods. Enjoy your ability to think critically, idiot. [spoiler]seriously thank you[/spoiler]

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        • Edited by Taencred: 4/17/2014 8:42:43 PM
          I can say just one sentence to make your whole post irrelevant. I decide for myself what my terms are for me trusting a company. That's it, I don't think that a company should do what they did, so I will no longer support them. You think that we are silly because we think we're entitled to information regarding something that happened to someone we cared about? Well you're pretty silly yourself saying that you're entitled to decide what all of us should think.

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          • [b]REPORTED FOR DISHONORING MARTY[/b]

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          • Please check it out. For those who wonder who he is, or for those who want to get to know Marty one last time.

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          • Edited by Pride: 4/17/2014 1:35:12 PM
            I think it's just people viewing this news as the people at Bungie directly firing Marty. As if they all met at a table during lunch and huddled up, deciding to let Marty go. Then when Marty walked in they just ignored him until one man stood up and announced the news. It doesn't help by making the news over-dramatic either.

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          • [quote]If Marty wanted to tell us, he would. If Bungie wanted to tell us, they would. Neither group wants to right now, so neither group has[/quote] This is true, but what is disturbing is that Marty didn't just say "I've left Bungie and hope to Persue other interests" which would suggest Bungie and Marty still get along. Instead he writes that he was fired without cause, which suggests there are some problems between Marty and Bungie. Also, look at this BBC news post: [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27053860[/url] It states: In an interview about the tie-up for Edge magazine last year, Mr O'Donnell commented: "It's hard for me - and some of the guys get impatient about it, like 'Hey Marty, quick just write an iconic theme and show it to us'. "But that's not what I did with Halo. I like to write music... [and] we have this really great start on many, many pieces of music that all seem to work together well." Sounds like he was having a bit of a rough time at Bungie.

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          • [quote] [b]3. Future Destiny games will have the same sound as this one.[/b] I'm a composer, so I know a bit about this. It is very easy to create new music in the same vein as a composer you've never even spoken to. It is easy to do this and still incorporate your own style and personal tweaks. Additionally, future titles will include the same major themes as the first, so not a lot of new writing will occur.[/quote] I mean no disrespect, but I have to inquire about your background as a composer; I'm a performer myself (of both classical and jazz) with a fair bit of training in theory and composition, and I was rather surprised to hear you say this. Do you really feel, as a composer, that you can build upon the soul of a piece through only technical analysis? To me that seems rather disrespectful to music as an art form. You couldn't hire someone else to paint a Monet just because he's already done some paintings and you [i] get the gist [/i] or whatever. Regardless of your opinion of a composer's relative skill, I do find it odd that you would seemingly diminish the importance of the creator in a work of music. I respect most of your talking points and you seem to have some pretty intelligent things to say, but I'm afraid I'm perplexed by this particular statement; to me it seems offensive to the art of music as a whole, but I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. Could you perhaps explain yourself?

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            • Edited by CTZYX: 4/17/2014 7:44:52 AM
              One thing that bugs me about Marty's post on twitter, in most contracts there are clauses in there in that state that no one party is allowed to discuss publicly reasons how, why or even that one has left for an allotted amount of time (generally 90 days to a year, though Iv seen up to 2 years). The reason to this clause is keep the company from losing money by going to a competitor and giving away trade secrets or loss of revenue by negative publicity, and the former employee to be rehired without specific to keep from being hired due to spite or poor conduct. So when he made that tweet making it public, it could easily have broken one if those clauses, ie the countless posts saying cancel preorders orders and jumping ship from bungie entirely. So kinda worried he might be sued from it. Also looking at it from an employers prospective, would I hire this person who openly violated a contract? Risky move

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            • Marty is Infinite. Marty is Eternal. Hail, the Lord of the Ivory Towers.

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            • My serious response.

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            • THANK YOU. At least someone else feels the same way. People are forgetting that it's not all of Bungie's fault. What about all the people creating and testing this game, I guarantee they didn't have a say in the decision. Don't blame everyone at Bungie

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            • 1. Nope, this is untrue. A business exists because of the customers. Customers are, in a manner of speaking, shareholders, because they hold the potential for the success or failure of a company. The idea that only explicit shareholders have say is ridiculous. The company MUST cater to its customers, this is the basis of a free-market economy. We do not owe them anything, but if they want us to part with our money, they owe us something. A product. The best possible product they can make. Bungie exists because of us, and so, in a sense, we have some power in these matters. 3. Destiny II's soundtrack cannot come close to the feel of Marty. Look at Halo 4. 4. Terminated Without Cause does not negate the fact that this was not a result of any fault of Marty's. 5. We are not harassing Marty. We are asking Bungie for clarification as to why, exactly, the most popular and well-known composer is now not a part of the company any longer. We are asking what reason they had for irrevocably changing the future of Bungie music. And Marty could be under contract that he cannot tell us why. The argument that they don't have to tell us is complete bullshit. Say Bill Belichik was suddenly fired from the Patriots after winning a super bowl next year. They have an obligation to their fans to explain why, all of a sudden, the fate of the team is completely different. 6. They wronged the product, and if they expect us to pay for it, they damn well better explain why.

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              • I say well written. No retaliation from me :). Still, I kinda wished they sent him off better, like an Admiral being honorably discharged with the entire Navy there to see him off. Might be a bit of an exaggeration, but more could have been said. I think one of the issues is how a lot of people appreciate Bungie as a business because they try to pride themselves as being "of the people", but this situation definitely revealed the "it's just business" mentality that I'm sure threw people for a loop. It's like finding out your favorite superhero, who towers over his enemies, is actually played by an actor who is only 4'1".

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              • [quote]He has been fired by the company and the company will not take him back if a few hundred, or even a few thousand fans say so.[/quote] WE are the employers. WE the consumer, pay them. WE do tell them what to do, or they fall. Xbox One, Halo 4, sound familiar? [quote]3. Future Destiny games will have the same sound as this one. I'm a composer, so I know a bit about this. It is very easy to create new music in the same vein as a composer you've never even spoken to. It is easy to do this and still incorporate your own style and personal tweaks. Additionally, future titles will include the same major themes as the first, so not a lot of new writing will occur.[/quote] Yeah, tell that to the Bnet Forum members, who saw the disaster of Halo 4. Tell us that a different composer = the same greatness. No, you haven't a single clue what you mean. [quote]5. You do not need to know the reason.[/quote] [quote]6. Bungie did not wrong you.[/quote] Yes we do and Yes they did. [quote]7. Bungie is not dissolving, or folding, or falling apart because two people left.[/quote] One person left. The other was fired. Not to mention these were the two best, These guys are the reason many of us are here today, on Bnet. Because they have been the best at what they do, now that magic has left the walls of Bungie. Bungie has become about money, not the consumer, and it is going to crumble Bungie just like it has with every last company to make that move.

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                • This is a seriously fantastic post, sir. Great, great stuff.

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