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originally posted in:TFS The Floods Sanctuary
4/21/2013 7:20:58 PM
21
The Spartans were fighting Covenant in greater numbers and with better tech for the better part of 30 years wearing mk IV armor, and in all that time they only lost like three guys. I think they can 50 20th century humans easily enough.
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The Covenant consist of uberreligious honor-bound zealots, raging apes who are too angry to think half the time, frail bird-things and midgets who run away with the slightest provocation. I won't bash the mgalekgolo- those are actually pretty damn effective bastards. On the ground, the Covenant had less effective weaponry than the UNSC. In space, obviously, they murderstomped humanity, but on the ground they usually lost. Here, the Spartans are up against a massive group of extremely well-trained soldiers not bound by honor and with comparable weaponry to their own. True, they don't have the sheer strength, speed, or durability of Spartans, but they have so great a numbers advantage that they really don't need it.
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Humans didn't "usually win" on ground, it's just that the only real stand humans ever had a chance of winning was on ground. The only major terrestrial engagement involving armies I can recall was Sigma Octanus IV, and the entire human force was curbstomped. Then there's Harvest, which once the Covies started taking us seriously, went belly up for all humans on the planet for 5 years straight.
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Humans won due to better discipline and numbers. If aliens lost, they'd just pull back and glass. [quote]Every minor victory on the ground was a major defeat in orbit.[/quote] Fall of Reach book, I believe.
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so? they still pooped on the marines with better tech than modern day infantry
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What are you saying then? Modern SF are better then Elites and Brutes in terms of combat? I think not. Elites had SF too and I'm sure the regular infantry elites could dominant modern SF. Also a raging pack of brutes are dangerous as -blam!-.
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Honor-bound zealots who would rather charge head-on at a far more powerful enemy force than take cover, and raging beasts who...also charge head-on at a far more powerful enemy force rather than taking cover. They are stronger than humans, they are faster than humans, they have better armor than humans, and yet they're still less effective than modern militaries given their inflexibility.
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Do you forget The Elites and brutes Invisibility? They could just do that and take out the SF from the shadows. And charging head on with gravity hammers too. How are they less effective when they almost drove the human race to extinction? Also Seals=ODST and the ODST had big trouble with elites and brutes.
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The extremely conspicuous shimmer doesn't make AC impractical at all. The Covenant got as far as they did with [i]spacial[/i] superiority, not [i]ground[/i] superiority. On the ground, the UNSC outmatched them. Not by much, but outmatched nonetheless.
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Okay then think about this. Human Special Forces from the 21st century vs Elite Special Forces from the 26th century. Humans not trained at birth vs Elites that are. Humans with guns and technology vs Elites with plasma weaponry with more advanced technology like cloaking and shields. ODST's=Special forces. Spartans and Elites are at equal. Spartans beat ODST's and since Spartans and Elites are at equal, that means Elites dominant your special forces.
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Jiralhanae are the rough equivalent to sangheili, and the Rookie managed to slaughter several dozen of them alone, along with all of their little unggoy and kig-yar they had with them. And the Rookie is an average ODST...who are equal to modern special forces. :/
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Sangheili over Jiralhanae. Rookie is far from average. Jiralhanae<sangheili=spartan 2's. Spartans dominant ODST's. So sangheili > ODST=Special Forces.
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Then why were the jiralhanae able to kill all those sangheili councilors in Halo 2? Looked like the sangheili got butchered and the jiralhanae didn't have any casualties at all. What about the rest of Dare's squad? They kicked just as much ass as Spartans despite being regular humans.
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Edited by GuN: 4/21/2013 11:19:56 PM[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_cRZ24BVKM]ODST's can't do this[/url]. Also, Halo 3 ODST was all about stealth, I remember watching an interview way back when Frank O Connor or someone from Bungie said that. The rookie didn't take the Brutes head on, he used stealth. Spartans can kick Brute or Elite ass head on, it was said multiple times that ODST was about stealth, but Bungie "broke cannon" by making ODSTs a bit stronger so gameplay would be less shitty/hard (like the ability for ODSTs to carry turrets, which was mentioned in the books to be impossible for a non spartan and the ability to hold Fuel rod guns, again in the books it was said that ODSTs couldn't even carry Fuel Rod Guns nevertheless try to aim them---an example being Kelly taking a Fuel Rod Gun from an ODST trooper in First Strike after he was barely lifting it).
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[quote][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_cRZ24BVKM]ODST's can't do this[/url].[/quote] What? Kill a bunch of shieldless sangheili charging at them without any ranged weapons? All they'd have to do is stand on the other side of the bridge and keep firing. And I just saw Forge, who wasn't even an ODST, kill the biggest, baddest sangheili alone with nothing but a knife and a stolen Energy Sword. How is killing a few smaller ones any significant feat? [quote]Also, Halo 3 ODST was all about stealth, I remember watching an interview way back when Frank O Connor or someone from Bungie said that.[/quote] Well it failed miserably at that. It was, however, a solid action game. [quote]The rookie didn't take the Brutes head on, he used stealth.[/quote] I took them head-on. [quote]Spartans can kick Brute or Elite ass head on, it was said multiple times that ODST was about stealth, but Bungie "broke cannon" by making ODSTs a bit stronger so gameplay would be less shitty/hard (like the ability for ODSTs to carry turrets, which was mentioned in the books to be impossible for a non spartan and the ability to hold Fuel rod guns, again in the books it was said that ODSTs couldn't even carry Fuel Rod Guns nevertheless try to aim them---an example being Kelly taking a Fuel Rod Gun from an ODST trooper in First Strike after he was barely lifting it).[/quote] If an unggoy can lift them with one arm, a human probably could too. And ODST basically retconned that anyhow. Also *canon.
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Edited by GuN: 4/23/2013 2:04:45 AMNope, it said SPECIFICALLY in First Strike ODST , Corporal Locklear, had difficulty carrying the Fuel Rod Gun so Kelly took it from him---THAT's canon. And when you said you took them head on, it's goes back to my point saying that Bungie broke canon so ODST would be a more fun gaming experience. Forge killed the Arbiter by using cunning, the Spartan IIs took them head on. In fact, if you paid attention to the novels, you'd note that Colonel James Ackerson got into HUGE shit when he was talking down on the Spartan IIs, with a higher ranking officer( in fact, if I remember correctly, it was Lord Hood himself) saying that the Spartan IIs had more kills than all of the divisions of the ODSTs or something like that (I believe it was in First Strike, I am 100 percent sure of this). [quote]All they'd have to do is stand on the other side of the bridge and keep firing.[/quote] Yet the Spartans took them head on >_> You seriously didn't see the part where the Spartans melee'd/used the Elites own weapons against them.
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[url]http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Councilor[/url] Dare's squad was made up of the best ODST's so none of them were average. Read the lore. It wasn't just jiralhanae that fought the elites it was all of the rest of the covenant excluding most grunts and hunters. Many of the Ruling Sangheili were assassinated. The jiralhanae ambushed the councilors and some survived. Were are your facts that no jiralhanae died?
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Still just regular humans. If a team of well-equipped, well-trained ODSTs can mow through dozens of jiralhanae, a team of well-equipped, well-trained SEALs and/or SAS can do the same. No corpses. Though they were probably just dragged away or something. And it's not like the kig-yar were any help. They're frail as a twig and can barely shoot better than an unggoy. Also Halopedia master race.
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Edited by GuN: 4/21/2013 11:12:16 PM"The ODST body suit is made up of several different layers and materials, the inner layer of the black-gray undersuit is made up of Kevlar material to aid in protecting the wearer from small arms fire, the inner layer also contains a heating and cooling system which regulates temperatures to keep the user warm or cool depending on the weather conditions - the heating and cooling system can also match infrared signatures of the current weather as well to allow an ODST to go undetected in hostile locations. The outer layer of the undersuit is coated with a heat resistance material to aid in reducing temperatures experienced during orbital drop, and against Covenant Plasma Weapons. The body suit also doubles as a pressure suit to allow an ODST to perform EVA. The outer shell layer is comprised of Titanium and Ceramic composite armor plating that covers the chest, shoulders, legs and feet." Modern special forces armor has NONE OF THAT. This is from the Halo Encyclopedia by the way.
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But a team of well equipped, well trained Elites could destroy a team of SEAL and/or SAS. They also had Drones and grunt loyalists. Why don't you say that to Halo 2 legendary Jackal snipers.
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Honestly it seems unlikely that the spec ops soldiers' guns can even penetrate MJOLNIR. And please don't say that the UNSC uses 7.62 so obviously the guns are just as effective as they were 500 years ago because they used the same bullet size. UNSC weapons most likely have a much higher penetration and muzzle velocity due to advanced propellant and ballistic technology, the size of the bullet is not all that matters.
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How much better though? I keep hearing about how much more advanced the UNSC's weapons are seeing as how they're 500 years into our future and yet I see very little actual stats, calcs, or proof in general as to [i]how much better[/i] they are. Honestly, they have some damn good handguns and space weaponry, but everything else seems...sub-par, y'know? Equal to today's weaponry, if not worse.
