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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Hawpy: 2/19/2019 4:16:51 PM
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Hawpy

Warlock Supers are bad.

Let me preface this by getting this much out of the way - Well of Radiance is a necessary, well-respected PvE Super for any serious content that is understandably and rightfully awful in PvP, like bubble of old. With that said, in PvP Warlocks have no good option for a Super besides bottom tree Dawnblade, which forsakes all of your neutral game to benefit it. Daybreak is okay without the tracking when using the top tree but the whole aerial combat thing just doesn't work at all. In Stormtrance and Nova Warp, you have the two worst PvP roaming Supers by an incredibly wide margin. It's no secret that Spectral Blades is in a league of its own but the gap between these two and something like Hammer of Sol is immense. The recent Nova Warp nerfs crippled it and put it in the ICU. Don't get me wrong, it needed nerfing, but no one other than someone saying it in a salty rage would actually ask for this much. It's not viable anywhere. It gets demolished by other mob-clearing abilities in PvE and is just a drag to use in PvP - at the time of the nerf it wasn't even the highest ranking Subclass for Winrate OR KDA on both Console and PC (stats from guardian.gg) The singular Stormtrance buff was pathetic. "Use Crown of Tempests!" I hear you say. What happens when you do? You kill all of the menacing Thralls that were marauding your helpless fireteam and then what? You have half of your Super left and nothing to use it on. Its damage against Majors is still pretty terrible, versus other Supers, and its job for killing mobs is easily accomplished by any gun with Rampage or Dragonfly. Stormtrance is very "feast or famine" except every feast is followed by famine anyway. [spoiler]When I did Last Wish this week, one of our regulars (who usually uses Stormtrance) wasn't there. Usually, we would leave mob-killing at Shuro Chi to him. This time, someone tried using Loaded Question - it was undoubtedly better at killing.[/spoiler] Nova Bomb was buffed nicely...…...or so I thought. I have seen clips of Nova Bomb doing massive damage to [spoiler]INSURRECTION PRIME[/spoiler] but I believe that to be a side effect of the boss having many hitboxes that are damaged at once, much like using Dark-Drinker against Aksis. The tag-line about Nova Bomb was "now not just for large groups" or something to that effect, meaning effectiveness against bosses and major targets. I thought that the huge percentage increases to both variants of Nova Bomb meant it would be top-tier at boss killing - not exactly Nighthawk levels but at least good enough to justify using. I was sorely disappointed to realise that it is easily out-damaged by both post-nerf Blade Barrage AND buffed Arc Staff, two Supers that were already much better and far more versatile. Chaos Reach. Oh how I wish I could say you were great. Easily the best and most well-rounded Super at a Warlock's disposal, in my opinion (and elevated even higher when using Geomag Stabilizers), but not without some glaring issues. First of which would be the camera - this isn't something that can be completely solved, but the combined screen-space taken up by your player model and the beam itself make it very difficult to see what you're hitting, especially at longer ranges. Speaking of longer ranges, my word is the hit detection at range just dismal. In both PvE and PvP I have many experiences of clearly hitting a target with the beam and them simply not taking damage. In PvE, it's a minor inconvenice as an enemy that far away shouldn't trouble you. In PvP, however, it's inexcusable if that target was an enemy Super who gets away and proceeds to kill half of your team. Before you say it's just bad aim, I'm not the only person to have this happen and I've had eyewitnesses say "why isn't it dead?". Can't wait for the 2 people who read this to be Hunters who complain and tell me that the extra 3 seconds added to Daybreak make it broken and OP and it needs to be nerfed. Rant over. Edit: General consensus is that I'm underrating Attunement of Chaos, which I'm happy to agree with. Seems like most people have the same view as me on Stormtrance and Chaos Reach, but opinion is a lot more divided on Daybreak. Edit 2: A lot of comments about Warlocks being heavily geared towards PvE, which I definitely see - Exotics in particular. Stormtrance probably isn't as lacklustre as I've made it out to be, but there is still a point to be made that it can't beat other Supers in a 1v1, meaning you have to get yours incredibly early in the match or use it very late, after all the others have been cast (and use less per game, which is obviously undesirable). Edit 3: A lot of comments suggesting Attunement of Chaos plus Tractor Cannon. Will happily give it a go next time I can, particularly in Gambit. Maybe not in any Endgame stuff as I am often the only Warlock to use Well of Radiance in my regular group.

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  • It’s karma, nova Warp was out of control and deserved its nerf

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    • At least we have Cataclysm Nova Bomb. Hands-down the best super IMO.

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    • To sum this up: Warlocks are very good in PVE. Warlocks SUCK in PVP. Warlocks have been relegated to a PVE Class. If you play a Warlock in PVP you are playing PVP in HARD MODE

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    • Dawnblade is great. Ez kills.

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      • Now you know how titans have felt for months

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      • I disagree with the need for Nova Warp being nerfed. It was no different than flaming knife throwing Pixies, pole dancing Pixies, and invisible Pixies. Yet, those did not get destroyed. It was the one decent super that Warlocks had.

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        • Edited by blade329: 2/20/2019 11:47:12 PM
          [quote]The recent Nova Warp nerfs crippled it and put it in the ICU. Don't get me wrong, it needed nerfing, [/quote] Complains about Warlock supers then says it needed nerfing. Uh......yeah. There is no way for Bungie to win.

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          • Your title is wrong. It should say warlock supers are very good but i am not good with them. Warp was nerfed to be on the same level as arcstrider...which is srill worse than warp because you can get killed by a shotgun before you artually melee a target in arcstrider while warp kills from 15 meters away. Stormtrance is very good in PvP for anyone who knows how to hold the trigger down...it even melts other supers really fast...if you block 3 seconds of stormtrance with ursa furiosa you get 60% of your super back.

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            • I have been saying this since release. Warlocks need a complete rework & have every aspect of their abilities/supers/exotics buffed significantly. But, this is bungie we are dealing with. Extreme incompetence, laziness & greed always prevents from doing the obvious or listening to feedback.

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              • Most PvP supers are pretty bad for warlocks, but I find that we lost our synergy from D1 and neutral game is lacking for most subclasses. I have no problem with the supers apart from the duration of dawnblade, I mean, only a three second duration buff Bungie? Then you give titans a super that can literally last for minutes in PvE with a nuetral game! Warlocks were known for there space magic, and potential with our abilities. Now all we have is a trash blink, a whole lot of one trick pony supers( all of them) and worthless melees. Warlocks have become an afterthought.

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              • Hunters are probably the best class in the game imo. They have what is basically a better nova bomb, golden gun, raiden flux arcstrider and the dreaded spectral blades.

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                • Edited by killa beaver: 2/20/2019 1:15:44 AM
                  Tell me BB and nova bomb are equally balanced.... tell me how, and this clip I linked isn’t a one off, this has happened multiple times. Blade barrage has too much armor and nova bomb dosent have a big enough blast radius or enough armor. https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/killa-beaver/video/69709896

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                  • Im surprised people even ran Nova Warp in PvE. You had top tree nova

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                  • Warlock supers are fine. PVP is bad. Therefore Warlock supers are bad in PVP. FIxed it 4 U.

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                  • Ummm I dont know what u have been smoking but Chaos reach w the boots is one of the best supers in the game, bud.

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                    • The air combat in dawnblade has potential to be really good but the accuracy reduction in air completely ruins it. There's really no good pvp supers. Every time I'm in super and I run into another super I expect to die. Also the jump on warlock is horrible in pvp and blink recovery time is to slow. I've been a warlock main since the start of d1 and after this season I'm switching to hunter. I'm tired of being at a disadvantage.

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                      • I agree. Warlocks are a joke right now. Every single one of their supers is counter-able. Meaning that I can run away unscathed by any of them (except nova warp, honestly)

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                      • Correction . Warlocks are bad

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                      • Bungie prefer to pander to the master race, the crutch class, the one and only overly privileged, spoon fed, nerf crying, babies.. The Hunter Mains.. And I mean those Die Hard Hunter Mains, who don't even bother playing the other two classes, or use 2-3 hunter characters...but have the unbridled ignorance to complain about other classes.. and since the majority of the community Main Hunter, they are easily the most Vocal.. leading too them getting their way.. been this way from D1 Day 1.. all the way up too now. Won't ever change..

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                      • Dawnblade and novabomb are good they just need to make more wide open maps for them to be usable in pvp, all the enclosed maps make them unviable in most pvp situations, nova warp was a good pvp roaming super till they over nerfed it, well of radiance and chaos reach are good just not viable in pvp, and tickle fingers is just tickle fingers

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                      • GIVE STORMCALLERS BLINK FOR GODS SAKE

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                        • Try top tree voidwalker with the skull and go into a forge. I threw 9 supers in one ignition at Bergusia, with no orb help from my random teammates. I'm not sure how my super could be better.

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                          • Edited by LordD2: 2/20/2019 6:15:48 PM
                            Just using Nova Bomb as example, but maybe the nerf there was due to buffs on other things. Pretty sure how Skull of Dire Aahamkara works was recently changed too. The go to Nova Bomb exotic was Nezarec's sin. Xur was selling SoDA either this past weekend or weekend before, so I grabbed it and started playing with it some and was quite surprised at its effect on Nova Bomb. Almost too extreme like it's almost a must to be using that exotic if you're running Nova Bomb. Nova Bomb may not have the damage it once did, but you definately will get to use it more. It was a blast in forge runs where you can almost spam it. I would often have my second super before the effect of my first one even ended. if Nova Bomb hadn't been nerfed slightly, this combo would be down right ridiculous.

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                          • Edited by Raevenent: 2/19/2019 1:54:45 PM
                            I agree, been a warlock main for 4 years, and I'm thinking about being a titan main, the sauce Warlocks have just isn't there anymore. The nerf Nova Warp was WAY to brutal and unneeded, it had it coming, but not to that extent, and the buffs to the other subclasses except Nova Bomb were subpar at best, 3 seconds on Dawnblade wasn't as big as I thought it would if you were mowing down adds constantly. Friend said warp is fine as is in PvE while I was on my titan running bottom tree striker, and shoulder slammed my way to the boss area not even losing half of my super duration and I simply asked him "Yeah and you still think Nova Warp is fine now?", he didn't say anything afterwards, other than a "Oh..." The only nerfs Nova Warp needed was a change to the explosion hitbox, like only a cone like explosion to where you're facing instead of all around you, and not hit you through walls, and warping costing more energy while the duration was the same as pre nerf Warp so you would have to be smart about warping to chase someone down. Nerfs happen and are part of balancing a game, but if it's done so to the detriment of the subclass tree's existence, that isn't ok and needs to be looked at again. I might be exaggerating when I say this but it might as well be true at this point, the nerf to Warp made it just not exist. Warlocks need a serious buff.

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                            • You know what auto rifles and novawarp have in common? They both were very strong in their respective metas only to be thrown to absolute uselessness after Bungie has given them a good ol’ spanking.

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                            • The Novawarp nerf went too far, it went from OP to garbage. Bungo at their finest.

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