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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by The Grizzled Ancient: 11/9/2018 4:54:09 AM
242

D2 sales not up to Expectations

I know everyone has probably seen the stories circulating today about how Destiny 2’s sales are not meeting Activision’s expectations in spite of the up tick created by Forsaken. So I’d like to take this opportunity to point out why I think that is, so here goes: [u]1) Destiny 2 is still not as good as Destiny 1. [/u] Destiny 2, like any good sequel, should’ve taken the solid foundation of Destiny 1, and built upon it to make a game that was bigger and better than its predecessor in every way. Instead Bungie opted to do a soft reboot and destroy everything fans loved about the first game, only to spend the next year slowly trying to fix the game. Forsaken is a major improvement over Destiny 2 year 1 in a lot of ways (but not all), but it’s still a shadow of Destiny 1. A lot of the things that were brought back don’t completely fit. Snipers still feel underused in spite of their return to the special slot (and addition to the primary slot). Bounties feel mostly pointless with the exception of the dreaming city bounties. The mods are still meh. Masterwork cores are far too rare and so having a fully masterworked piece of gear is rare and honestly doesn’t feel worth the amount of materials it takes to do so. [u]2) First impressions are everything. [/u] Anyone who paid attention to the lead up to the launch of the PS4 and Xbox One back in 2013 knows how bad word of mouth can completely destroy a product. Microsoft was set to release an Xbox One that featured an always online requirement, the inability to trade or loan games to friends or family and no used games. As we all know Microsoft eventually pulled a 180 on these things and shipped the Xbox One with none of those features in the final version of the console, but the damage was already done. I remember watching a video online of someone from IGN (I believe) going around campuses and on the street asking regular people if they knew anything about video games and if they’d heard of the Xbox One and the most common response was, “that’s the one that doesn’t play used games, right?”. This was AFTER Microsoft had reversed all of those decisions, but it didn’t matter, word of mouth had already spread and there was no going back. The same thing happened with Destiny 2. Once fans realized what Bungie had done to their beloved series and the backlash began, so did the word of mouth. I still come across people that say things that, “Destiny 2? Didn’t they screw the game up?”. Honestly there’s no going back at this point, they just need to make sure that Destiny 3 is a grand slam. [u]3) The raids just aren’t as good as Destiny 1[/u] All of Destiny 1’s raids are better than Destiny 2’s. You can say that this is opinion, and technically it is, but it’s an opinion shared by the numbers. Last Wish has the lowest completion rate of any Destiny raid and I believe it’s because people are intimidated by it (it took Redeem 24 hours to complete it). The raids in Destiny 2 are way too mechanics heavy. Too much time is spent trying to remember odd symbols or trying to make sure everyone is in a specific place. King’s Fall was a master stroke of raid design. The perfect balance of bosses, jumping, shooting things and puzzles. Same goes for VoG. Crota’s End and WotM were less puzzles and mechanics and more bosses and shooting guys in the face, but if you have to lean more one way than the other, leaning more into the action is always the better bet. At the end of the day the Destiny 2 raids just aren’t as inviting or fun as Destiny 1’s. [u]4) The gear isn’t as good[/u] I had high hopes for the exotics in Forsaken and while some are really great, many leave us reminiscing on the amazing exotics of Destiny 1. First off, rocket launchers are trash in Destiny 2. There’s no other way to say it. Even the Two Tailed Fox was a major letdown. Tracking sucks. They all hold 1 rocket before needing to reload. They just aren’t fun. And why is it that to this day, the majority of the best exotics to ever appear in Destiny were in the base game? The Taken King has a few good ones, but if you ask someone to make a list of their top ten favorite weapons or armor from Destiny 1 or 2, chances are good that most will be Destiny 1 launch items. And I think this is because before the game came out Bungie wasn’t afraid to make gear that was amazing and super fun to use and worth grinding for. It was when they decided to start nerfing everything that things started going down hill. It really says something when all of the best exotics in Destiny 2 are returning Destiny 1 exotics. [u]5) Destiny 2 should never have been made.[/u] Destiny should’ve been like WoW. No new numbered games, just expansions that build upon the foundation of the original game. Bungie’s reluctance to simply go back to the systems that everyone loved in Destiny 1 is a problem. I can understand not wanting to revisit what’s already been done from a design standpoint, but it’s also important to be able to realize when you made a mistake by changing something, and recognizing that maybe you need to to reset back to that original system In order to properly improve upon it. The weapon slot system is a good example of this. In Destiny 1 it was a perfect system that made sense. But while Forsaken’s system is a major improvement over Destiny 2’s horrible system, Bungie’s unwillingness to fully revert to Destiny 1 leaves this weird system that that tries to be everything to everyone but ultimately feels out of place. In Destiny 1 having the one off exotic that was a special but sat in the primary slot or elemental primaries felt really special and fun. I know I went long on this but Destiny is my favorite game series and Bungie my favorite game developer and so I really want to see Destiny succeed. But there have been a lot of disappointing mistakes made in recent years to Destiny that I really hope Bungie is able to learn from. I quit playing Destiny 2 a few weeks ago once I hit 600 because the only thing I had left to pursue were the Forsaken exotics and considering that since Forsaken’s launch I’ve had maybe 10 exotics drop and not a single one was a Forsaken exotic, I didn’t see any point in wasting time grinding for them any longer. And that really sucks to say. At this point Bungie is going to have to learn how to fix Destiny themselves.
English
#destiny2

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  • Very well written.

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  • I think the new weapons system is better than D1. Seems like there are a lot more possible combinations. But that's my opinion.

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  • The gear isn’t as good. Rewards don’t feel rewarding. And I like your point on raids. I did all the raids in D1. I liked some and loved others. I haven’t stepped foot in one in D2. In D1, I felt I had to do them if I wanted the best weapons. I had to have certain weapons. That’s not the case anymore.

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  • Forsaken is miles ahead of The Taken King. There's far more diverse content in this DLC. Either way, that's opinion and you've stated yours like it's a fact that everyone knows. No god damn way. No DLC is going to change the fact that you've been playing the same game for 4+ years. People get bored of repeated actions, it's natural. If Forsaken launched in year 2 of D1 instead of The Taken King you'd be saying the same thing right now but reversed... In fact you'd be even more certain that Forsaken was better. Why did a post about an earnings call turn into an opinion piece about D1 vs D2?

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    3 Replies
    • I guess $500 million is not enough.

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    • Extremely well said

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    • I think the main issue right now is that the PVP is actively horrible. It's just the top 5% of players stomping on everyone else, and because too many rewards/milestones are in it you have to play it. There is no way this game will ever retain new players of they are forced into the PVP to progress and massacred by top players with thousands of hours in the game and equipment they can't possibly equal.

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      • Cosmo, Deej, Luke, Noseworthy all these peoople destroyed or heldback this franchise! Community manger that listens? Why do they even need one if the most important things are never inplemented any way, you DONT listen...

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      • nice post and lots of good points made. I'm sure I speak for most of the community when I say I resonate with a lot of this. I am really enjoying D2 but it is certainly not the masterpiece that was D1 year 2 and 3 I really thought last wish would be my favorite raid, but it is just a pain to run with people. I never find myself having fun just hoping we pass the encounter and I get some loot. Once I have everything I need from the raid I will not be revisiting it for fun, and that is a shame. I really only have 1 full completion because most groups I get disperse before riven.

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        • Everything you said is true, keep saying this for 4+ years it is mind blowing that so called professionals have completely destroyed and ... -blam!- the most promising console franchise in the history of FPS next gen Games on the consoles.

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        • tl;dr Every decision in D2 has been about making money rather than putting out a great product that D1 fans and more would enjoy and growing the user base organically. I think my biggest problem is that they pretty much screwed all the pre-order customers by releasing 3 turds, D2 Osiris and Warmind. It's like they realized there was no saving it and tried to come up with the most cost effective way to complete it to maximize ROI since there was no upside from selling more copies. Then they saved a majority of the fixes that we really wanted for Forsaken and stuck out their greedy paws and said "40 more dollars suckers!". I remember counting the days until D2 was released, pre-ordering with a tight knit group of guardians, which have all fallen off the map on this game. And now the base game is free which continues to devalue pre-order customers! I basically have written off all pre-orders now because of Activision/Bungie, even if it's a game I really like. I get this nervous twitch in my eye and neck whenever I get the temptation to pre-order a game. Some of my friends have said, well it's what you signed up for, pre-orders are a gamble and are not guaranteed to be hits. Then why on God's green earth would anyone do it? Forsaken has been great compared to the latter but you've basically brought the game up to the base level of D1 without all the weapon/super/armor balancing, it's still an inferior experience overall in my opinion. Lucky for me I'm playing on a friend's PS4 that bought the expansion so you're not getting my money Bungie! I also don't have any desire to max out three characters at all. I will probably not invest in Destiny 3, even if it's a hit, because they've whittled me down to a nub. At this point they should just make a separate Battle Royal or Digital Card game on pc/console/mobile and reuse all the assets. That would make the investors very happy.

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        • And that means bungie will have to sell more bad DLCs force micro transacion, anual pass and all that nonsense. Its pathetic that AFTER A YEAR the game kinda feels like a decent game. Oh btw inferior to D1 overall. Sorry a dlc wont provide the sales that the base game, 2 prior dlcs should have provided. Its absurd to think that forsaken could have earn back whatever sales the mediocre vanilla D2, curse of osiris and warmind did not make. Good ridance.

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        • Well put sir

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        • Edited by Aegis Mind: 11/9/2018 7:21:39 PM
          I don’t think it’s fair to compare gameplay times/amounts with the raids, unless you know the numbers from specific periods right after they were released, such as the first two months of last wish with the first two months of Kings fall. I do agree the mechanics have certainly stepped up to a level that I’m not entirely happy with. If it were me, I’d do away with all the symbol based mechanics that we’ve seen since d2 launched. The D1 raids weren’t nearly as symbol heavy if I remember correctly. Could be wrong. Like, figuring out the Templar fight in VoG was the coolest shit... no symbols, just struggling to survive and figuring it out.

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        • I do think that if they didn't reset the loot, though, people would Gjallerhorn their way through all the content because it was that easy with Gjallerhorn. I had friends who didn't even take it off for a burn it was that strong.

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          • This is a really long post to say D2 was a flop yes we are all aware......

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            • Add to that things like the unwillingness to fix bugs when it doesn't affect eververse, lack of communication and transparency, the fact that cheaters never get banned unless a big streamer talks about the issue and you'll have that: a game that is on the "red line" of his life but the devs are more worried to deliver new DLC to milk your wallet than fix existing issues. Just an example of how glitchy things are: Yesterday was doing Shattered Throne with my friends to get the Wish-Ender. During the Ogre boss, we killed the taken minotaur twice. Twice it didn't drop the relic and we had to wipe. On the last fight. One of the knights kept going underground and we had to wipe 4 times thanks to that. For god's sake, even today Crota's "vanishing sword" glitch still happens... Nor Bungo or Activision cares about the integrity of their game. It's all bout "buy our new DLC based on hype", which generally comes with a big disappointment.

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            • Nice post, well thought out with good valid points. Well structured and easy to read aswell

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            • Edited by xilxad: 11/9/2018 6:02:18 PM
              True, the KEY here is that Destiny 1 was a superior game and everything bungie did with D2 leading up to forsaken was not just bad but [i]terrible[/i]. Guardian characters are, quite simply, neutered versions of D1 characters. And even the improvements made with forsaken only serve to hide this fact by making character feel less weak. Also the cheap, non-creative artificial difficulty (foot stomping idiot bosses, any one?).

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              • Good post Good read

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              • Is anyone surprised about this? They made a technically superior sequel that was inferior to it's predecessor in every way except technically. When we told them it was an extreme downgrade from the original, they told us they'd never change it. They only listened to us when the daily player count got so laughably low that they couldn't ignore us anymore. When a Developer/Publisher acts as cavalier as these two did, it's going to take a long time and a lot of money to fix the fandom. Forsaken deserves to be played by every current and former Destiny player. But Bungie/Activision does not deserve to have these customers back yet. I expect that D3 will also be a huge disappointment. If you treat customers like they're stupid, they won't buy your product. The fandom is broken. Bungie broke it. Only time and money can fix it now.

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                • It took redeem 18 hours.

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                • 8
                  D2 vanilla release is biting them in the arse. The release was so predatory and shallow that it had to be expected. If D2 launch was forsaken they would not have had this issue. But pushing eveyone into the eververse. Making a game that was super shallow. removing all the things that made destiny destiny burned alot of people who are not willing to pay $100.00 to give the game another shot. I currently love Forsaken, but launch D2 was pure garbage and i can understand why someone would not want to waste another cent on this game.

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                • Destiny 2's pre-orders exceeded that of Destiny 1. I think Activision set their hopes too high. Typical producer's greed. Where have we seen this before...? Oh yeah, EA

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                • Five point is major, I think. Really can't see reason to cut off everything you have just to add new. And now we have leaks about Destiny 3, and...well, they will cut off Nessus? Io? I think the main reason why Warframe got more content, then Destiny, it's because for some reson devs keep on deleting something from a game to return it again in future (yes, machine guns, I'm looking at you!) I really like Destiny, but all this holes in overall project development make it unplayable.

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                • Edited by PilksUK: 11/9/2018 6:34:18 PM
                  Activision/Bungie have told investors they will be adding more micro-transaction to the game and the drops will be more frequent....so they can work faster to add microtranactions than actual content...I already think eververse is too much so I will be dropping D2 if they add anymore.

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