JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by The Grizzled Ancient: 11/9/2018 4:54:09 AM
242

D2 sales not up to Expectations

I know everyone has probably seen the stories circulating today about how Destiny 2’s sales are not meeting Activision’s expectations in spite of the up tick created by Forsaken. So I’d like to take this opportunity to point out why I think that is, so here goes: [u]1) Destiny 2 is still not as good as Destiny 1. [/u] Destiny 2, like any good sequel, should’ve taken the solid foundation of Destiny 1, and built upon it to make a game that was bigger and better than its predecessor in every way. Instead Bungie opted to do a soft reboot and destroy everything fans loved about the first game, only to spend the next year slowly trying to fix the game. Forsaken is a major improvement over Destiny 2 year 1 in a lot of ways (but not all), but it’s still a shadow of Destiny 1. A lot of the things that were brought back don’t completely fit. Snipers still feel underused in spite of their return to the special slot (and addition to the primary slot). Bounties feel mostly pointless with the exception of the dreaming city bounties. The mods are still meh. Masterwork cores are far too rare and so having a fully masterworked piece of gear is rare and honestly doesn’t feel worth the amount of materials it takes to do so. [u]2) First impressions are everything. [/u] Anyone who paid attention to the lead up to the launch of the PS4 and Xbox One back in 2013 knows how bad word of mouth can completely destroy a product. Microsoft was set to release an Xbox One that featured an always online requirement, the inability to trade or loan games to friends or family and no used games. As we all know Microsoft eventually pulled a 180 on these things and shipped the Xbox One with none of those features in the final version of the console, but the damage was already done. I remember watching a video online of someone from IGN (I believe) going around campuses and on the street asking regular people if they knew anything about video games and if they’d heard of the Xbox One and the most common response was, “that’s the one that doesn’t play used games, right?”. This was AFTER Microsoft had reversed all of those decisions, but it didn’t matter, word of mouth had already spread and there was no going back. The same thing happened with Destiny 2. Once fans realized what Bungie had done to their beloved series and the backlash began, so did the word of mouth. I still come across people that say things that, “Destiny 2? Didn’t they screw the game up?”. Honestly there’s no going back at this point, they just need to make sure that Destiny 3 is a grand slam. [u]3) The raids just aren’t as good as Destiny 1[/u] All of Destiny 1’s raids are better than Destiny 2’s. You can say that this is opinion, and technically it is, but it’s an opinion shared by the numbers. Last Wish has the lowest completion rate of any Destiny raid and I believe it’s because people are intimidated by it (it took Redeem 24 hours to complete it). The raids in Destiny 2 are way too mechanics heavy. Too much time is spent trying to remember odd symbols or trying to make sure everyone is in a specific place. King’s Fall was a master stroke of raid design. The perfect balance of bosses, jumping, shooting things and puzzles. Same goes for VoG. Crota’s End and WotM were less puzzles and mechanics and more bosses and shooting guys in the face, but if you have to lean more one way than the other, leaning more into the action is always the better bet. At the end of the day the Destiny 2 raids just aren’t as inviting or fun as Destiny 1’s. [u]4) The gear isn’t as good[/u] I had high hopes for the exotics in Forsaken and while some are really great, many leave us reminiscing on the amazing exotics of Destiny 1. First off, rocket launchers are trash in Destiny 2. There’s no other way to say it. Even the Two Tailed Fox was a major letdown. Tracking sucks. They all hold 1 rocket before needing to reload. They just aren’t fun. And why is it that to this day, the majority of the best exotics to ever appear in Destiny were in the base game? The Taken King has a few good ones, but if you ask someone to make a list of their top ten favorite weapons or armor from Destiny 1 or 2, chances are good that most will be Destiny 1 launch items. And I think this is because before the game came out Bungie wasn’t afraid to make gear that was amazing and super fun to use and worth grinding for. It was when they decided to start nerfing everything that things started going down hill. It really says something when all of the best exotics in Destiny 2 are returning Destiny 1 exotics. [u]5) Destiny 2 should never have been made.[/u] Destiny should’ve been like WoW. No new numbered games, just expansions that build upon the foundation of the original game. Bungie’s reluctance to simply go back to the systems that everyone loved in Destiny 1 is a problem. I can understand not wanting to revisit what’s already been done from a design standpoint, but it’s also important to be able to realize when you made a mistake by changing something, and recognizing that maybe you need to to reset back to that original system In order to properly improve upon it. The weapon slot system is a good example of this. In Destiny 1 it was a perfect system that made sense. But while Forsaken’s system is a major improvement over Destiny 2’s horrible system, Bungie’s unwillingness to fully revert to Destiny 1 leaves this weird system that that tries to be everything to everyone but ultimately feels out of place. In Destiny 1 having the one off exotic that was a special but sat in the primary slot or elemental primaries felt really special and fun. I know I went long on this but Destiny is my favorite game series and Bungie my favorite game developer and so I really want to see Destiny succeed. But there have been a lot of disappointing mistakes made in recent years to Destiny that I really hope Bungie is able to learn from. I quit playing Destiny 2 a few weeks ago once I hit 600 because the only thing I had left to pursue were the Forsaken exotics and considering that since Forsaken’s launch I’ve had maybe 10 exotics drop and not a single one was a Forsaken exotic, I didn’t see any point in wasting time grinding for them any longer. And that really sucks to say. At this point Bungie is going to have to learn how to fix Destiny themselves.
English
#destiny2

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • It's time for bungie to ditch activision.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • [quote]All of Destiny 1’s raids are better than Destiny 2’s. You can say that this is opinion, and technically it is, but it’s an opinion shared by the numbers. Last Wish has the lowest completion rate of any Destiny raid and I believe it’s because people are intimidated by it (it took Redeem 24 hours to complete it). The raids in Destiny 2 are way too mechanics heavy. Too much time is spent trying to remember odd symbols or trying to make sure everyone is in a specific place. King’s Fall was a master stroke of raid design. The perfect balance of bosses, jumping, shooting things and puzzles. Same goes for VoG. Crota’s End and WotM were less puzzles and mechanics and more bosses and shooting guys in the face, but if you have to lean more one way than the other, leaning more into the action is always the better bet. At the end of the day the Destiny 2 raids just aren’t as inviting or fun as Destiny 1’s.[/quote] I don't agree with any of this btw. Destiny 1 raids were just as mechanic heavy the issue is just that leviathan sucked and then people realized there is no good loot in the raids. There still isn't any. Finally, the only and I do mean ONLY reason Redeem took 24 hours is because of the significant power delta disadvantage. The mechanics are not hard, stop saying they are. This is child's play compared to Destiny's compeititors. Just stop, our raids are far too easy as it is unless they decide to split hard mode and an easy mode. If they did that then hard mode would need to be WAAAAY harder than it has ever been.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      4 Replies
      • It’s a shame it has come to this. When I get down to gameplay and gun play in this game, nothing can replace it for me. It’s such a beautiful game to play, it flows great, supers are great and the settings are spectacular. The issues with balance, drops, micro transactions, matchmaking etc etc overshadow that and bring it down. I hope things pick up. It would be a shame to lose something so unique.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Edited by TheCyo: 11/11/2018 1:57:26 AM
        Removing SBMM was a fatal mistake. One of the first things new players try out is Crucible to check out if it is fun. Well it is not, as they get utterly wrecked. So they just leave the game and never try again. Giving ppl free copies of D2 and then letting them get destroyed when they try it is far from smart.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • A lot of the issues are Bungie's fault. Bungie's been caught throttling multiple times, yet somehow this game limps ago!

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Short version is they are reaping what they have sown. The whole marketing strategy is finally crumbling. You cannot launch a minimal shippable product and slowly add content to make it acceptable,without grinding down your customers interest. Re skins,reselling removed items, etc etc,all have a shelf life before customers will just decide it is all a bit toxic to be honest. Customers get weary of having to experience lows,to get a high. I love destiny and will play it to the end,but wisely most players are moving on. Its just bad marketing and planning and the strategy should of been changed with destiny 2 launch....... My opinion anyway.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • D1 armour sets were superior in my eyes, I went back and saw checked them out and was surprised. D2 has better ornaments for sure though....strange that :D Again, D2 was rushed and a shit show and massive regression for at least a year, in which Bungie charged people to obtain 2 awful DLCs to stay 'current'. After the base game was so thin on content, them 2 dlcs became memes really. COO was stretched out with some time gated weapons, which were mainly shit. Warmind had OP dropped in last minute, or that wouldve been the same. Its almost like Bungie was taking the shortest route to put something together that would sell, with the minimum effort. Now even after Forsaen improved things, nubers have fallen off massively already. In D1 I played for hours/days/months without new content as there was always stuff I enjoyed doing...raids/pvp etc In D2 I NEVER see people up for running D2 raids just for the lolz..and that lies the problem. D2 is rarely replayable. Now red dead and cyberpunk are dropping people are seeing the reward for hard work and spending years not months making a game. D3....its almost like even the most loyal fan knows itll be 85% D2 + some gimmicky features. Dont let loyalty mean Bungie can rip you off cos other devs are showing their dlc/micro model is dated.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        2 Replies
        • Edited by WaterPiglet: 11/10/2018 7:17:18 PM
          I know people will say that D2 is the best it has been but I cant explain it other than to say there was something about D1 that made me want to play. In the D1 era I would be thinking during the day about what I was going to do that evening on the game because thats all I wanted to do, just play it to death. D2, I dont even think about it until someone suggests to play it, which is sad. I think D2 has come a long way but it just doesnt feel the same. D1 with the faults it had is for me the game (with improvements) that I wanted D2 to be but I just feel so detached from this game right now. My guardians dont feel personal to me. The weapons and especially the gear are just there to be used, theres no real need to bother with most of it because you know whatever you have equipped doesnt matter because any piece of gear can get you through whatever you are doing. And lets face it, most of it looks like crap.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          2 Replies
          • [i][quote]The raids just aren’t as good as Destiny 1[/quote][/i] Obviously yes. Enhanced mechanics = less fun.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            2 Replies
            • Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkk Activision.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              2 Replies
              • It’s not talking about the DLC itself it’s talking about the money made overall. It’s lacking because Bungie hasn’t shoved Eververse in our face as much.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • One thing I love about Destiny is that more often then not I have fun while playing.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • Well stated. And Bungie have never had a clue how to balance the game in any respect.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              • Not meeting expectations, hasn't made a billion in digital and hard copy sales, hasn't made 2 billion in microtransactions .

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                3 Replies
                • D2 did make some improvements over D1, I can't fault them on those. There were so many other aspects that the game seemed to regress on though, that I would have to concur... Destiny 1 is still the superior title. I was just telling a friend a day or two ago that D2 isnt going to be a game that I'll want to go back and play when D3 releases. I'd still revisit D1 but D2 has still been unable to recapture any good feelings I had in D1, even with Forsaken. If D3 isn't a homerun, this series is probably doomed. Sucks to say it, I really like what Destiny is. I just wish your overlord would provide you with the time and resources it takes to release a game that goes down in the history books. Destiny is one of the few games that I think has that potential.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  2 Replies
                  • Agreed.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  • [quote]Destiny 2 is still not as good as Destiny 1.[/quote] Destiny 1 wasn't great to begin with, lets be clear on that. They're too focused on little details that don't matter rather than the big picture that is the core gameplay and mission design. That's the problem and why people laugh at Destiny in the first place. Oh and the story, and the way it is told is garbage.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    6 Replies
                    • All these “Destiny one > Destiny Two Forsaken” posts have way too much nostalgia factor in them Did nobody mention the constant connection issues, slow load times and raid bugs which ruined those experiences in D1? Or how about the cheeses for almost every raid? D1 wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, and I would debate that Forsaken is better than even the best era of D1.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      4 Replies
                      • Imho a lot of people are in denial about what the real issue is here. On a scale of one to nolife, things got dialled up to 8.5 for forsaken, it stopped being fun and started being a chore for a lot of the player base. It was easy to see this coming and tbh I called it repeatedly to anyone who'd listen during the summer as changes to Crucible and a few other things made the direction of travel fairly clear. Like a rube I still bought Forsaken and season pass, but predictably enough got burned out after a month or so and haven't logged in now for weeks, having been a more or less daily player since mid-D1. Fact is that what The Community thinks it wants is far too niche for a mass market AAA game, while admittedly year one was far from perfect, Bungie should have looked for a middle ground. Instead, they went all in, now here we are.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        3 Replies
                        • Spot on. I still play because I love the game but I feel like im always thinking about how much better the game use to be while playing. Mostly the feeling of being so powerful. The Raid part is the best - in my opinion. I feel intimidated and afraid to join randoms for the raids now. Why Forsaken exotics are not dropping is the strangest decision on Bungies part. Its why I play - not to get underwhelming exotics I already have.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          1 Reply
                          • Edited by Art: 11/10/2018 3:30:50 AM
                            1
                            [url]https://seekingalpha.com/article/4220179-activision-blizzard-atvi-q3-2018-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single[/url] This is the whole earnings call rather than the pieces the internet journalists took out of context to get you to click their stories for advertising revenue. TL:DR - Activision says Forsaken DLC purchases are less than expected yet simultaneously really good and a major contributing factor to quarterly revenue - along side CoD microtransactions

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            1 Reply
                            • This is definitely the case. Especially word of mouth. A give a firm "No" to anyone who asks me if they should get the game and have done many times. Maybe these falling sales will incentivise Bungie to actually put consistent effort in instead of half assing everything, Forsaken excluded.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            • Edited by BoozyMcBoozeFace: 11/10/2018 4:36:49 PM
                              I didn't buy Forsaken because I was hosed on CoO and Warmind. I'm not throwing another $40 at Bungie. Plus, there's the anti-casual sentiment against customer who don't have 40+ hrs a weeks to play this game.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              12 Replies
                              • Your reasons are more or less on target. I think the big one is a combination of them: D2 vanilla was a catastrophe. And people just plain passed on it. Forsaken, good as it is (and it's amazing; the issues I'm having with D2 aren't related to it), is an add-on to a game that struggled greatly. And that will almost certainly limit its player volume.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                3 Replies
                                • I have to admit vanilla D2 was a bummer, but Forsaken has given me more hope for the franchise than I expected it to. I think Bungie did great stuff with the Taken King, then dropped the ball with D2 - I still don't know why they retconned certain things (like that Rasputin is now the only warmind, when there where 3 in D1's lore, IIRC). Moving slow was a bummer, high time to kill was a bummer, the expansions were bummers - D2 didn't feel like Destiny anymore. I'm sure this isn't true with all of the changes Bungie made with D2, but [i]some[/i] of the changes were Bungie listening to us and adapting - enough people complained about getting shotgunned or sniped constantly in Crucible, so Bungie moved those weapons to the power slot and let us poke at each other with pea shooters for a while. Turns out we didn't like that so much either, so now we're back (or at least closer to back) to what D1 felt like at the end. I think D2 would be stronger if they just kept building off D1 (and I agree that numbering feels weird - I would've been fine continuing on with new expansion names, instead of numbers and names). I wish we could still visit D1's locations, even though I know I wouldn't very often. I hardly ever go to Titan now, but I like that I can if I want to (and I hope we get to see more of Titan in the future - the Arcology is a gorgeous location). And it would be rad to play VOG or KF on PC (especially with updated graphics, but I'd gladly settle for how they looked on console). But even though D2 year one had a lot of missteps, things are looking better now. I love that lore is unfolding over time, even in small ways. The 3 week curse cycle was a clever way to explain why things keep repeating, and I like that each visit to the queen has been unique - it's not the biggest stuff, but if it's an indication of where we're headed, I'm excited. Hell, I love that lore is finally IN THE GAME! The menu's lore library is a vast improvement over only being able to read stuff via the website. Vanilla D2 had a story with an interesting premise that was easy to follow and far more satisfying than vanilla D1's, even if it could've been executed better in some regards. And Forsaken was an improvement upon D2's story. The first story mission in Forsaken was probably my favorite solo experience in the franchise thus far. The barons were an interesting addition, giving us more variety of gameplay in the story mode than any expansion before Forsaken. I love how big locations feel now. It's like D2 patrol zones are as big as VOG felt. And the addition of locations like the Whisper mission and the dungeon are super cool things that I wasn't expecting (I know Black Spindle was also a surprise addition in D1, but it took place in a pre-existing strike map, whereas the Whisper mission added a new location). Whisper really felt like a developer that loved games giving something to the player just for the love of it. I hope we continue to see more stuff like this. I'm in a similar place with Forsaken right now - not grinding as much as I was when it launched, not super worried about getting every exotic/curated roll/strike specific weapon. I like that those things exist, and that I could chase them if I wanted to, but after hitting 600, I don't feel as compelled to grind. And I'm actually ok with that. I think I played too much when Forsaken came out, to the point where I was starting to slip a bit a work, but that's definitely a me problem. I'm bummed about the news that Activision considers Destiny an under-performer, especially right after Bungie has changed things in a way that I think most players agree is a big turn for the better. I hope it doesn't lead to more mandated micro-transactions, or clever ways to monetize that we haven't considered yet. I'm sure we'll never un-flip the micro-transaction switch (unless governments end up making them illegal). They've proven to be way too powerful for a profit-driven business to give up. But I'm happy to pay a good amount for a good game. I don't need more dances or fancy hats, I need more quality experiences I can sink my teeth into. I know Forsaken isn't perfect, but I think it's a [i]huge[/i] step in the right direction, and I think it's one of (if not the) best expansions Bungie has made to date. I hope it's also a sign of better things to come. Bungie, in case you haven't heard it yet, Forsaken over-performed in the hearts of the players (or at least the ones I talk to). I hope that counts for more than the earnings report of the company whose favorite game is Candy Crush. Specific replies: Bounties feeling pointless - in D1, bounties felt most useful for leveling up gear and unlocking perks. I really don't want to go back to leveling gear, I think the new Masterwork grind is enough of that. I don't wanna use a gun for a couple weeks in the hopes that it will be good once its perks are unlocked. I will agree in one sense though - bounties leveled us up with factions and got us gear. Technically that's still the case - we get faction tokens for bounties which we can turn in for gear - but I've never been aware of my rank in a faction in D2 (I don't mean Valor rank, I mean being FWC level 56), I'm not even sure if that's still tracked. Mods are meh - I like that we can add something to a gun now, rather than just "+5" and an element. I'm a fan of counterbalance and backup mag. I know they don't make a gun compete with an exotic, I imagine it has something to do with balancing, but I'll take Forsaken mods over D2 mods any day. I agree on core economy/masterworking being too expensive to bother with most of the time. I believe that's the case because they want us to make tough decisions rather than just masterwork everything, but sometimes the easier decision is to skip it and miss out on +10 handling.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • D3 will be shit at launch and take years to fix. D1 and D2 say so. Bungle used to be my favorite Dev. I pre-ordered D1 a year in advance solely because "Bungie" made it. I now think Bungle is a mediocre Dev with no Code and no spine. They made me feel this way. Destiny could've been great. At this point, it's a given that it will be half-assed until it's life cycle is over.

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  10 Replies
                                  1 2 3 4 5 6 7
                                  You are not allowed to view this content.
                                  ;
                                  preload icon
                                  preload icon
                                  preload icon