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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Archival Mind: 8/30/2018 6:01:44 PM
14

The Ahamkara vs Worm God Debate - My Theory From TTK to Pre-Forsaken

<Alright, this is the last post I make on this until Yul or an Ahamkara is shown. I know I ramble on about this a lot but it's about time I combined everything together. Please note that some things have changed, and this is just the finalized version before Forsaken comes out. So, after making a shite drawing where I attempt to reconstruct the face of a Young and Adult Ahamkara, I decided this would be a good idea. Let me just separate this into categories. [b]Jaws[/b] Let me tell you something that Xol could've told you... Worms have jaws. Hell, baby Worms have a sort of jaw. You can see the wrinkles where the mandibles and the split lower jaw will be. You can see a single tooth at the bottom of their upper jaw. [url=https://i.imgur.com/8LjKZkB.jpg]Look at this cute little guy[/url] Therefore, I conclude that just because Yul describes himself as having jaws, it does NOT mean that he is a wish-granting space dragon. As for the split-jaw thing. Yes, it does appear that Ahamkara have a split lower jaw, but I don't see any other appendages. Also, this leads into my next point. [b]Skeletons[/b] Here we go, exo vs endo. Ahamkara clearly have an ENDOskeleton. It's when a skeleton is INSIDE the body... like humans or other mammals or reptiles. Exoskeletons are when the skeleton is OUTSIDE and covering the protective meat that is the rest of the body. Baby Worms seem to have an exoskeleton, and by that logic, so do adults. Similarly shaped bugs IRL that have exoskeletons are millipedes and centipedes. Now let's get into what Worm bodies are made of. [b]"Skin" Materials[/b] Rasputin documented Xol and the Grasp of Nokris as a mass of nonnative organic chitin. Xol is covered in that stuff. So is Akka if you look at the Dreadnaught, which his body was used for. BTW, chitin scales exist. So Worms are made of chitin, what about Ahamkara? Truth be told, we don't actually know what Ahamkara scales are made of. However we can make guesses based off of artifacts, armor, and real life comparisons. The most likely is keratin. Keratin makes up human nails and hair, but also makes up bird claws, feathers, reptilian scales, etc. Given that Ahamkara are described as avian or draconic in appearance, this would make sense. Also it seems that they were feathered, as the Claws of Ahamkara are covered in what appears to be a kind of dense-ass feather of some kind. However, that could just be a design choice. [b]"They Are the Same but the Worms are Corrupt"[/b] Let me start by saying that the Ahamkara definitely, totally use powers based on the Darkness. They way their power works practically says so. The Traveler would give and give but the wishes give and take. It's a perfect middle ground. I admit it is very similar to the Worm Bargain with the Hive. But let me say this; if the Worms were corrupt, they should still birth Ahamkara. My backup? The Hive. The Hive, especially Oryx, were transformed by their symbiosis with the Worms and the Deep. Still, let's take Oryx as the prime example, he had Crota AFTER he had the power to Take and YEARS of killing. Crota is a normal Hive who happens to be an idiot. Not my point. If Worms are corrupted Ahamkara, they should still birth dragons, especially YUL WHO YOU PEOPLE LIKE TO GO ON ABOUT. Yul does not birth Ahamkara, but Worms. Just the Worm. So what about Yul? How did he get wings? [b]Wings and Life Cycles[/b] Based on Worm, er, "eggs"? No, cocoons. -blam!- I don't know what to call them. The Worms we all know should be similar to caterpillars. Yeah, it was hard for me to believe at first. However, usually caterpillars start from a small egg, not a cocoon shaped object. Then one detail caught my eye. Yul says "curled wings". A while ago I looked up curled wings. The main results were on flies and moths/butterflies. Then it hit me. Perhaps Yul is so ancient or powerful that he is moving on to the next stage of life. Maybe the Worms have a "-blam!-ed up life cycle", where as the cocoon makes them, and then they molt into their final forms instead of cocooning themselves to turn into their final forms. Perhaps Yul was in the middle of such a transformation when he mentioned curled wings, as in Apocrypha he mentions his wings create winds that sweep the stars. He has grown. Btw, molting happens to bugs, too. Like cockroaches. It appears that Worms have a long life span, so it would explain why Yul is on his way to the next stage while no other worm is... maybe Eir is next up. [b]I'd Shut Them All in Cells[/b] [quote]THE DRAGONS. Our gods should be ours alone. Their smug freedom is an insult to me. I’d shut them all in cells. Bring them to me![/quote] This line has been interpreted in one way most of the time. Well, let me present another interpretation that makes a whole different story that ends up explaining the Ahamkara powers and speech patterns. "THE DRAGONS" refers to the Ahamkara. "Our gods should be ours alone" usually is interpreted on its own, and so it usually ends up meaning that the Harmony shouldn't be worshiping the Ahamkara. But, when you combine it with the next sentence, things can change. "Our gods should be ours alone. Their smug freedom is an insult to me." can take on a whole different meaning. "Their" refers to the Ahamkara. Their "smug freedom" would explain their proximity to Light filled areas like Sol or Harmony instead of following the Deep like the Hive or the "5th" Race do. "Our gods" refer to the Worm Gods... who, in the eyes of Xivu Arath, should be worshiped by the Hive exclusively, not "them" being the Ahamkara. This would make sense because the Hive want to outlive the universe, thanks to the temptations of the Deep. Now why would Xivu Arath consider other beings worshiping the Darkness a bad thing? Should I remind you of the Vex? Even when they started worshiping the Deep during D1's Vanilla campaign, the Hive and Vex still hated each other. Granted, the Vex had an ulterior motive, but they were still under the same thing. If the Ahamkara worshiped the Worm Gods, it would explain their powers and speech patterns, as the Worms are heard using "O ___ mine". The Ahamkara's smug freedom would allow them to be hated among other races of Darkness especially and would allow them to go wherever whenever, ditching the Deep in order to break the natural order. Not that it matters anyway... if the leaks speak truth then there are no more. No Whispers this time. Not after She is done with it. Praise the Witch Queen for her use of Taking. More importantly, praise the Deep for dealing with the heathens that break from IT's promise. imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/VvDdrqP Now excuse me, I really need some sleep, I just sat in orbit for 2 hours... probably why this post is still broken. More journal entries from yours truly coming soon, none having to do with Worms or Ahamkara.> <EDIT: I hate to sound braggy... Not really, I'm kind of an asshole, but... I win. IT teaches me and IT is always right.>
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#lore #destiny2

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  • I believe the new lore tabs have confirmed that they are not the same species but have evolved with very similar lineage, hence the similarities. They are like two top predators vying for the same eco system.

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    • TLDR Ahamkara Skull above shax

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      • Guys, I have a question. I own D2 and the CoO dlc, but no the warmind. After the Forsaken update happened yday.. I can't seem to find in game where I could possibly play the Warmind DLC. I want to buy it now and play, but from in game I can't seem to understand or find where I could possibly play it even if I bought it. Will it appear after I buy it from the store? From what I remember, you could go from in game, Select the DLC you want to play via a small icon thingy like the one for forsaken now, and from in game it would direct you to the ps store via the game to buy it. Is the Warmind dlc not available for now until September 4th? Does anyone know anything more? Please help. Appreciated, Paul

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      • Edited by Sandpr1nce: 8/29/2018 11:43:11 PM
        To strengthen your point: " If the Ahamkara worshiped the Worm Gods, it would explain their powers and speech patterns, as the Worms are heard using "O ___ mine". " I recall one of the hive's using the same phrase "O_mine". was it savathun? ( i dont remember who, just that it struck my attention pretty hard) If the Worm-gods (including the dead) are a total of 5 then the Ahamkaras must be different. The fact is, guardians have supposedly taken down multiple Ahamkaras before. Referring to the "Great hunt". But yeah, got nothing to confirm that the 5 are the only ones. Absolutely love this topic. Most interesting part of this game. Also, lovin your work bro. Good read.

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      • For anyone still not convinced about the speech pattern: https://www.bungie.net/de/Forum/Post/248168128/0/0 (Yes this is shameless, but I figure the two posts are kinda related)

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      • The new “Thousand voices” weapon (that was shown in the exotic trailer) has “O bearer mine” in its description. The only thing with “Thousand” in its name is xol. The description seems to be spoken by an ahamkara. Just a coincidence.

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      • Edited by Diaper: 8/29/2018 7:11:25 PM
        Why do you take everything so -blam!-in literally? Nothing in legends is supposed to be taken literally. The Hive speak in metaphores, the speaker spoke in metaphores, every goddamn body speaks in metaphores. The ahamkhara and the worms could easily be the same thing. They could be different life cycles, they could just be a worm species that got blown up by people who didnt understand what they were looking at. Jesus. Come on.

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        • Ahamakara

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          • Maybe the speech pattern of “oh __ mine” is the way one talks when using the darkness to manipulate? What I mean by that is, that both the Ahamkaras and Wormgods probably use the darkness. They both commune after their death in a influential manner. Maybe it’s like a spell (I’m sorry for the bad comparison, I can’t think of a better way to describe it)?

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            • To quote the A Thousand Voices flavor text, Xol says “I can be anything you wish, O murderer mine.” This could be him taunting us, but I personally think this is another clue towards some relation between Ahamkara and Worms. Time will tell.

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              • Ahamkara were worm Gods, Bungie retconned it LALALALALALALALALALA!!!!!!!

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              • Holy crap nice job!!!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 The Eldritch created both Worms and Ahamkara. “Siblings” At least that’s what I will believe until proven otherwise. “Oh bearer mine.” But who knows Bungie could have scraped them. But if true it means “corruption” is merely a matter of Praxis. “Balance” and which side you fight for. Freakin’ awesome post. Truly awesome. Now tell me everything you know about The Drifter........ and why he has his own “Traveler.” (my gut reaction: He is Tess’s Uncle or a close relative.)

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              • Good work my man. Definitely make more journal entries. If you do it, many will follow suit.

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              • Bump cause it’s awesome

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