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7/12/2018 12:58:17 AM
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I don't think people get the point.
The point isn't gay = bad, it's that forcing diversity ruins narratives. If a writer is forced to make a gay, black etc character they will, 9/10 times come off as terrible characters because the writer doesn't know how/doesn't want to mqke said character, and in that situation the character tends to become a mess of stereotypes rather then just gay, black etc.
The comic is a different type of problem IMO. The problem there wasn't she was gay, but rather the writer forced a romance into the book, took away achievements from Ana to give to said forced romantic char and overall wasted the majority of the comic trying to make us care for this otherwise unheard-of character. Although you could probably make the argument the writers merely did that for the sake of a gay character, and in today's industry I probably wouldn't be surprised, but I don't believe that was the reason.
Why? Because I fine it rather coincidental the lead writer for d2 was a former "young adult" novel writer...
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But they definitely should include blacks and gays. Just, of course, write them normally, as they would ANY OTHER CHARACTER. Give an equal amount of characters to each race. Don't overextend or look at the world with liberalism and rose-tinted glasses. Essentially, reflect what the world is today, in reality, not in the world of liberalism, which also includes 0 real friends and many imaginary ones.
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Yeah, definitely not saying there shouldnt be XYZ people, there should, just that they shouldn't be made as criteria for q checklist
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Right. They shouldn't be forced to do it, but it should be encouraged. In moderation, of course. It should focus on the story as a whole. This is what I think Bungie should do with Forsaken, and the story is in there: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/246981299?page=0&sort=0&showBanned=0&path=1
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Edited by Coldhands: 7/12/2018 4:26:36 PMThe web comics are poorly written. It doesn't really have anything to do with diversity or Ana Bray being gay; the web comic story has so far revolved around a witty rogue maverick character trope and her romance with someone who isn't in the games. They could make either Ana or her love interest a man, or both white, and it wouldn't change the quality of the web comics. "Diversity" isn't the issue here; the web comics are just poorly written. Destiny 2 in general is just poorly written.
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[quote]The web comics are poorly written. It doesn't really have anything to do with diversity or Ana Bray being gay; the web comic story has so far revolved around a witty rogue maverick character trope and her romance with someone who isn't in the games. They could make either Ana or her love interest a man, or both white, and it wouldn't change the quality of the web comics. "Diversity" isn't the issue here; the web comics are just poorly written. Destiny 2 in general is just poorly written.[/quote] This ^
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Jesus -blam!-ing Christ. How am I supposed to read all this shit. It’s going to take me at-least a couple of days just for me to read this. WHY?!?!??! Can you just write one sentence instead of a thesis.
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(because my writing one sentence normally ends up with me being called racist, sexist, homophobic, a [url=http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law]-godwinslaw!-[/url] etc)
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It’s stupid that typing N A Z I does a link
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But typing commie doesn’t. Leftists at Bungie censoring the Right.
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I thought it was pretty funny actually
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Edited by RapidMoss18: 7/12/2018 4:03:26 PMOkay but ain’t no way in hell im reading the 15 paragraphs. Lol this has got people going crazy (Not specifying you, just a lot of long ass comments)
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There is no such thing as [i]forced diversity.[/i] [b]Diversity just IS.[/b] We live in a world that is defined by VARIETY not homogeneity. Only some people struggle to deal with that variety. What we are fighting over here (as always when these matters arise) is WHOSE voices deserve to be heard, and WHOSE stories deserve to be told. And some of you are simply saying that gay people’s voices don’t deserve to be heard, and their stories shouldn’t be told. Because I guarentee you that somewhere in Afghanistan or Syria there is a US soldier in harms way who is scared, worried, and hoping to get home safely to a loved one of the same sex. Want to tell them that their voice needs to be silenced because it has nothing to say worth hearing? Good luck with that.
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Side note, I believe soldiers deserve upmost respect from people, regardless of who they are. The military makes sure they are fit for duty, and I'll happily call BS on people suggesting a soldier doesn't because of their race and/or their romantic leaning. I don't say gender because I don't know if the military does allow women (there are only 2 genders, I DEMAND THE REEE) in ground combat positions. I know people were iffy about that due to the strength difference.
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I had a long reply and accidentally deleted it, fml. Anyways, TL;DR, Don't care if people are gay blah blah blah, forced diversity is when companies force people to throw in XYZ for the sake of "diversity", rather than the writers themselves wanting XYZ (typically resulting in walking stereotypes) or when individuals throw in the "victim classes" as too many seem to see them (litterally meaning everyone that isn't white, male and/or straight) merely to virtue signal, there are only 2 genders (because I want to see REEEs you've let me down internet!) And Ana being gay isn't a problem, IMO destiny handles diversity well (with the exception of white straight males. Doesn't bother me, but if we're doing diversity it should be actual diversity), just look at Wei ning and Devrim (I still cry he is just a British stereotype...the voice actor is gilleon from COD AW), but rather that there was a romance forced in all together. As flr the bit about soldiers, I'm not one of the idiots who hates soldiers, rahter the opposite. So long as someone is fit for duty by the national standards and isn't being let in because XYZ, I'm fine with them (I say that because just throwing people in could put lives at risk). Also, just saying, but even if I did hate gays or whatever, I wouldn't be stupid enough to try and tell a soldier not to be something. I'm not antifa burning the flag ;)
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/12/2018 2:41:50 PMThere is no such thing as "forced diversity". Just BAD ways of relating to HUMAN DIVERSITY. In employment...you just have people who are either lazy or bigoted employers. In art...you have people who are trying to tell stories that they haven't lived and that they don't understand...and therefore they cannot tell that story with any authenticity. As the jazz saxophonist Charlie Parker once said, [i]"If you haven't lived it, it won't come out through your horn." [/i] That is NOT the case with the Ana Bray story. Her story was well-told. It was just a story that some people--because of their prejudices---are uncomfortable with, didnt' want to hear... ...and this is their effort to put a socially acceptable **fig leaf** on that discomfort. This guy who grew up in a sheltered family, with a mother who went to Catholic convent school was uncomfortable with being around openly gay people at first. But I didnt't "blame" them for my discomfort....and I didn't just accept the Catholic Churches views on the subject. I read. watched. Learned...and decided for myself. They are not "sinners'. They rae not "evil". They are not "the dreaded other". They are (as this current Pope is finally acknowledging) not Children of a Lesser God. They're just **different**. ...and in time I just got over my discomfort, and realized that ----when left alone----they live and love, cry and bleed just like straight people. [b] That was the story that is being told through Ana Bray. [/b]
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No, forced diversity is when "diversity" is forced, it's self explanatory. As an example, a writer is writing a character for a game and is told said character has to be White, that would be forcing "diversity". I agree that people shouldn't be seen as just x, y and/or z, that's why I hate forced diversity. If someone doesn't want to/isn't comfortable writing someone of x, y or z they shouldn't have to, as in the end of the day that x, y and/or z is merely an intrinsic trait, people don't need it to be able to identify or enjoy a character and forcing a writer to write that more often than not just ends up with the character being stereotypical/bad because the writer didn't know how to/wasn't comfortable with writing that character. As for Ana being well written, I agree. The 3rd novel however was not. The romance popped up out of almost no where, the character was completely new to the lore to my knowledge and as such took away from Anas achievements to attempt to build some sort of character. I didn't not like the character nor the romance because I'm a homophobe, as (for 1) that would imply I'm scared of gay people (why would I be?) And (for 2) that would imply that the relationship being a gay one would be intrinsically bad, which is definitely not the case in the destiny universe. Look to wei ning as a perfect example here. That character was perfectly written, as was the romance.
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There is no "forced diversity". It only exists in the eyes of those who are uncomfortable with the diversity that IS the human condition. And the 'romance" didn't pop out of anywhere. It was hinted at the entire time.
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(and my reply was again deleted) TL;DR, forced diversity is when people see others not as merely all humans, but as categories based on their race, gender etc and seek to move the numbers around so their is X #s of Y, X #s of Z etc disregarding skill, talent etc for the race and such. I don't care if the char is gay, gay characters aren't inherently bad and to be honest I don't care Ana is gay. I hated how the romance was done, it was slightly hinted at over the first 2 with the char being brought in in the second to do things we thought Ana did, share a kiss then die. It wasn't like Wei Nings, IMO, it sucked. Unlike Wei Nings it was rushed, and I never got why the other one cared ahout Ana at all, with the only explanation for Ana romantically caring being she was alone. Wei Ning is the perfect example in the Destiny universe of how to do gay characters.
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Edited by kellygreen45: 7/12/2018 4:24:30 PMWhich, as I said, only exist in the Eye of the Beholder. I don’t see Ana Bray as a story about lesbian relationships. I see it as a story about a soldier exploring her personal reasons for being a Guardian and why she fights. She fight to protect what she loves, and ONE of those things just happens to be a[i]woman[/i] she is in love with. I don’t experience it as “forced” because interacting with such people IRL is part of my experience. And there isn’t one [i]right[/i] way to portray ANY relationship. Gay or straight. Lest we forget the heroes in [i]Rogue One[/i] antagonized each other until sharing a romantic kiss before dying. No one complained about [i]forced [/i] heterosexuality. So those who experience it as forced may need to realize that they are saying more about their own lives and their own attitudes than anything else.
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Everybody’s voice deserves to be heard. Regardless of deployment status or gender based relationships status. The fact that you would bring deployed soldiers up, as a rallying cry, says something about your motives. Let them be, let them do their jobs, thank them when they return home, be grateful that our lives are so much better for their sacrifices. Make sure they know that when they return! Otherwise, leave soldiers alone. They are not pawns in either side, they are not tools to advance agendas. Any agendas, other than the lawful orders dictated by the officers appointed over them. NONE of that hinges on their sexual orientation OR their relationships.
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[quote]The fact that you would bring deployed soldiers up, as a rallying cry, says something about your motives.[/quote] My motives are that everyone's voice deserves to be heard, and that everyone's story is worth telling. That every human's HUMANITY deserves to be respected and honored. What are YOUR motives...and why do you seem to be implying that gay soldiers somehow need to remain "closeted"? My point is what is being called (in the service of subtle prejudice) 'FORCED DIVERSITY"...is, in fact, the presentation of the REAL WORLD. There are gay soldiers who fight in our wars to protect the things and people they love....and some of the people they love happen to be of the same sex. Seeing them as "pawns" to be used is YOUR agenda. Not mine. To me they are simply human beings whose voices and stories deserve to be heard and deserve to be respected simply because they are human. They NEED no further "justification" for their presence, or their validity in being told. How 'bout you?
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Let them tell their story. They don’t need corporate welfare to take up their cause. I have no agenda and agree that everybody’s story is a valid story, and one that I’ll listen to. I have NO duty nor obligation to agree with it though. Many things are collectively agreed upon as accepted that I have fundamental issues with. Drugs (legalization of), drinking any alcohol while driving, infidelity, to name just a few. But, when PepsiCo tries to tell me what their interpretation of those unique, individualized stories are, I immediately ignore everything they’ve ever said about that subject. Horse’s mouth, not agreed upon collective social group think. We are ALL different, we ALL have unique stories to tell. Categorizing them neatly and placing labels or stereotypes does a massive disservice to everyone’s story. It homogenizes it, into nothing more than room temperature oatmeal. I have a very fundamental and philosophical difference than you. When people disagree it doesn’t mean they wish less than well upon those they disagree with. It simply means: We ALL have unique stories to tell and we ALL have a right to our voices, opinions, and beliefs.
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Only they have the right to decide who can and cannot speak for them. So, unless they complain or say they feel disrespected? All of us need to butt out and let whomever they are comfortable with speak. And I’m not hearing many gay people complain. But a shit ton of straight people started bitching the moment it became clear she was gay.
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Pretty sure, you don’t have enough personally identifiable information on the number of posters here to identify sexual orientation. You’re assuming. As Twain once stated (or at least attributed to him): “It’s not what I don’t know that gets me into trouble, it’s what I know for sure, that just ain’t true.” But, why is it that you want to speak for them? I don’t, clearly. Is there some contractual agreement you alone have with everybody in the entire LGBTQ community that when you speak for each of them individually, your word should be considered dogma? Clearly and obviously, you aren’t the only person in the world exposed to the non hetero world. There are no doubt, differences of opinion there, also. They are varied and unique as we all are. Are there people who are using perjorative and homophobic slurs right now, on these forums. Sure, yep, I hope you are reporting them. I know I do, and will. This forum will be better off without them. But, when a poster states clearly and unambiguously that they don’t care about a person’s sexual orientation, hetero or non, but they disagree with the emphasis placed on that specific portion of the character development. There is Nothing wrong with that. That is the very definition of difference of opinions. Like you said VERY clearly, everybody’s has a story and those voices deserved to be heard. To which, I agree wholeheartedly. Everybody.
