But at the same time, people are getting massive amounts of duplicate gear that's of no value to them. They are all the same rolls...and they are all dropping at LOWER power levels. I've turned in close to 60 packages in the two iron banners, and still don't have a complete armor set for any of my characters. But I still get MOUNTAINS of duplicate gear dropping at 295 and 296 power levels (I'm 300+ on all three characters). So WTF am I going to do with three, warlock IB chest pieces that I don't need (because I've already got that one), and that I can't use (To low to infuse into any of my other chest pieces....and I already have close to 600 legendary shards). I don't have a problem with the token system in general. But how its being applied to special events like IB and Faction Rally is simply broken. By the time you're down to the last two or so items you nee to complete a set, the odds of actually getting the item you want is so obnoxiously low it isn'f funny. At least Faction Rally was fun. But IB is just poisonous. Because its clear that drop rates have been skewed to make armor pieces a low probability drop....and the game play in Crucible right now is just poisonous. So the issue becomes why play an event that miserable.....to get trolled by tons of stuff you don't want and can't use??

I agree with most of what you said but in the original Destiny we didn't expect to get everything Iron Banner had to offer in the first 2 goes. So why do we now? The token system gives us this illusion that everything is obtainable straight away when in fact it works similar to the original Destiny in that we can't get all the loot straight away. That's how Bungie keeps people playing Iron Banner, the grind is still there it's just lost most of its meaning. The problem isn't so much the token system it's the whole Infrastructure of D2's levelling and reward system. The grind now is basically down to cosmetics because anything else gives a advantage to people who play the game more. And Bungie have basically came out and said that the game is designed to attract the casual player. Until that ethos changes no matter what they do to the token system Destiny just isn't the game it used to be because it's aimed at a different market. And to be honest I'm beginning to think D2 is the game they planned all along and D1 was just a fluke.

You're partially correct. But those issues are mainly inconvenience...and preference...issues where the main loot pool is concerned. But you're missing the point where special events are concerned. People never had any expectations of getting whole gear sets in IB...but then they also knew what they are getting...and those things had PROGRESSION value even if they weren't usable. 1. Even if I was getting my 15th Clever Dragon.....every one was different. So there was a chance that the one I was getting was better than the one I had before. 2. Even if I didn't want to hold on to the item to use, the gear was falling at END game levels. So I could use it to infuse into other items and make them more powerful. So even if I was max level, there was still a practical reason to play IB. But the token system in D2 is broken right now...and its broken for the reason that Luke Smith openly admits to: DUPLICATES. Now that there are no random rolls. Every Wizened Rebuke (fusion rifle) is EXACTLY the same as every other one. So once you've gotten your third one---one for every character----any additional ones are useless. 1. They aren't going to be any better or any different. 2. They are dropping at power levels BELOW where you are. I'm power 300+ on every character....yet the drops are coming it at a CONSISTENT 295-296. So the things aren't even useful as infusion fuel. So you wind up just getting this avalanche of useless items, that are only good to you for legendary shards and Gunsmith rep when you automatically dismantle them. The system as it stands for the special events is simply broken....and needs to be re-evaluated because it not only provides little incentive to grind...it actually actively discourages you to do so. Especially as you come closer to completing a set...and almost every drop is something that you don't need.

Dude you basically said what I said but in far more detail. We're arguing the same point. Tokens aren't the problem it's the reward and progression system that is. Even Light level means next to nothing now it's basically just cosmetic. In PVP it doesn't give you any advantage whatsoever and in PVE it doesn't let you do more damage it just lets you take more damage. Destiny has lost all its sub genres and has basically become just another FPS with more lag than the norm.

No. I'm saying that the reward and progression system WORKS in the regular game....even if people don't like it. I'm saying----when you deal with limited-time events like IB and FR----its broken. Because the time-limitation amplifies the issues in a way that doesnt' happen in the regular game. We do agree on your last point. I said the same thing when people insisted that PVP was what kept Destiny 1 alive. I said, "Without PVE, Destiny is a mediocre FPS in a glutted market of games that do PVP MUCH better." Its' PVE that makes this game unique...and the efforts to turn the Crucible into an E-sport has drained tha game of a LOT of that uniqueness. Its still enjoyable to play....but its (beyond its immersive gunplay) its feeling pretty generic right now.