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Edited by Jibunnokage:
6/3/2017 10:56:59 PM
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The facts are... we don't anything about D2, beyond the information released to date. That said we know what the expectations are, and some of the negatives have been:
1) Content that is isolated, takes $$$ way from Bungie and Activision, so that had to change. Will Guided Games help this situation, maybe, if a few positive clans, support lone wolfs routinely, it will help. I hope it does actually since I am clan based but love to do the lone wolf thing once in a while. The [i]ass[/i] clans that are elite based, and hate carrying noobs can be as salty or exclusive as they want. Let them be. Bet IMHO that is not the future of anything itemized in the presentation, and I believe that the elite clans will get what they want... only the players they want, and become isolated. Whereas the clans that are open, and accepting will grow and dominate the environment in D2, and they as well as the lone wolves will benefit because of it.
2) Bungie and Activision said nothing about exclusive content, but they telegraphed in clearly, in that Sony funded the sandbox at the live event. Is this fair, no, is it reality, yes. Having played both platforms, Xbox Live beats, IMHO, PlayStation Network. So something has to give Sony a counter balance and they pay for it, to get it.
3) Bungie has said the design core of D2 supports easy and straight forward content adds to the game, better than D1 did. This is key (if true) because Blizzard told Bungie over 2 years ago (now) what they should do, need to do, to improve fan appeal, is include more content more frequently, questing, goal based scenarios, and more dynamic events,. Bungie refused to do this initially, but every suggestion Blizzard made, Bungie in some way or form, has done. Dynamic engines that create variance in content once established are dirt cheap to maintain, and drive fan appeal hands down, so many developers have learned this lesson already.
4) Balancing, this has to be the one area where Bungle was horrible., beyond reason. The idea that they can't tune a given weapon or such, separate for PvE or PvP in D1 was just, well, stupidly short sighted. I hope lesson was learned. Never mind the fact that Blizzard suggested that Bungie not get deep into nerf vs. buff struggles, and let the players find the real balance. This where IMHO Bungie needs to learn something... stop trying to force players to do anything in anyway. I would like to think Bungie made it clear that they have learned that they can't control their creation as much as they would think or like to do? Only time will tell with D2. For D2, fix real bugs, only balance when it is explicitly and extremely required, other than that... get out of the way and let us play D2.
5) Everything Bungie said, implied and even what they did not say in the recent presentation, just screamed, they realize [i]they[/i] are in trouble here. The lack of the in-house crowd cheering during the scripted pauses, was painful to watch, and not hear, of course. But unless Bungie will release data to prove otherwise, that is it, they are in trouble. They have created scenarios that damaged market share, they cater to groups that play only limited aspects of the game, such as 50% attempt at raid, but the real number that is significant is the number of players that complete a raid, I suspect that is only 5% or maybe 10% of the total population of active players, the key word active, finish a raid. I have attempt raids 100s of times, but my experience is that less than 50% of the time we finish a raid. The reasons are many, and vary, but I suspect the experience of most players is similar. And, repeat of a raid is meaningless to market share, just as repeat of content is, re-play ability is a function of community, hence why Bungie stress the community aspect. Lone wolfs rarely replay anything without a very important reward expected. I ask you, did you do the raid for the better loot, or because as a team it was fun? At first it was the loot then it was the fun as a team, right? But even then that is only 5% to 10% of total active players are rewarded fully, that is horrible, no? Don't even get me started on ToO, I am sure the numbers are even worse for ToO. Does not matter how good the loot for flawless is for ToO or ToN now in D2... if the loot is exclusive it hurts market share.
6) Activision, I could careless what $$$ goals they have, but they have all the market data, and sales data, and it has to be clear when and what drives sales and player retention... it is not going cheap, and isolating content for DLCs. DLCs numbers for the industry in total are ugly most of the time. This is why Season Passes are critical, but these appeal only to the die hard fans. When Blizzard did this, there was a major drop off in player scale/volume after the initial burst of sales as each DLC was released, and Blizzard has worked hard to improve player retention via various ways, but it is the open character and weapons markets (real world) that has really kept the player volume up for most MMOs. But it has not been a perfect scenario even for Blizzard, so Bungie can learn from the past and from Blizzard.
7) Last, did anyone else notice that not one game designer or big name significant content provider leader of D1 past, was named as part of the leadership for D2? Why is that? Did they just move on? Yes and no, because some very stupid restrictions they supported or agreed to, hurt D1 in some significant way. For example, the comment that D1 was never intended to have primaries with attributes? Absolutely nuts, that was the entire point of the first 2 raids was it not? And it returned as the end content for D1? Finally? Too little to late, to be sure. New blood is/was required, and so some (I hope) loyal Bungie resources a got a significant opportunity, and they make good on it, as D2 matures. But please, don't ever take primary weapon attributes away again, never repeat that ugly mistake.
I have been in IT for over 35 years, a developer, engineer, etc. Have followed video gaming trends, patterns and such since I was a kid. My MBA thesis was on video games selection, preference and popularity as a marketing study, so I feel I know what works and does not for game developers. Hence my comments above.
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Destiny is a game that tries hard to please very different gaming styles. It's tough to achieve and always leaves some frustration for one group or another. Don't enjoy the grinding or MMO side of the game but love weapons/game mechanics as well as visuals in Destiny. Pretty much the FPS side of the game. Don't care how I look, just give me a decent weapon and let me shoot enemies. The storytelling part so far has been so bland that for the first time in over a decade of playing Bungie games, I have no interest in replaying missions/campaign. Maybe they improved that a bit in D2? I'm sure D2 will be fun, I've had lots of fun in D1 but as far as being perfect in all aspects for every gaming style, doubt it. You can't please everyone.
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Well said. To one of your points, I can't quite understand how a bad or lame story line can result, it is like making a bad movie, everyone knows it is bad, but it still gets released? The so called straight to video scenario if you will? Someone had to raise their hand and say, OMG we gutted the story in D1, and someone in management had to say... basically shut your mouth or else. That is the only scenario that makes sense, so the result was the horrible D1 result in reference to the story, which is sad because everyone (IMHO) expected a strong and moving story line similar to Reach. Moreover, having worked in IT, and as personal interest, tracking gaming, I still get a kick out of new games, sometimes it is a big kick, sometimes less, but still a kick. Encore for all its faults, the original elements of the game, make it a fun game, for example. If Bungie with D2 just takes a light touch to the nerf/buff cycle, and keeps listening to the rationale player feedback, which I would like to say they have been a bit better at later on with D1, I will be happy, even if others go salt in seconds flat. You many have noticed I stated nothing about lag issues or core design of D1 game architecture, this is because I understand at a very deep level how and what they did with D1 and continue with D2, in reference to the game engine network/server implementation as c2c (console 2 console) versus c2s (console 2 server) implementation. It is brilliant, but it has some flexibility issues by its nature. And is the lag always bad, no. Is it frustrating, yes, but it is all part of the game, sometimes it hurts sometimes it helps you (officially) cheat a bit, ah, well, benefit a bit, let's say. LOL. I, for some reason did not often experience lag. Maybe because of where my friends are in reference to geographic location and/or my internet service is well above average? But I will miss the 6x6 matches, but if 4x4 keeps the lag whining to a minimum, ok. The one negative I can comment on, but can't hope to suggest a solution for, is the friends that left D1 and have never returned. Activision and Bungie pissed off a lot of people, with how they handled the D1 DLC content, the $$$ grabbing intended or not, real or not by goal, generated some significant bad will. Of my original D1 friends, less than 20% are still playing D1 at all, in any qualified manner. Most, left after the stupid D1 DLC1 foolishness. TTK was not enough to bring more the 2 or 3 friends back to play. D1 has suffered for it, the stupid management decisions. I hope, sincerely, Activision learned how toxic their decisions were with D1. But, for the friends that left, each and everyone of them is gone for good, in my case, it appears. Here is the interesting and ugly thought... what if D1 had been released as it was once designed, it would have been beyond expectations, beyond the hype, such that D1 DLC1 was TTK or D1 DLC1 was even beyond TTK? Would there be a group malcontents? Sure, but the vast majority of D1 lovers would have considered $$$ well spent for D1 I think. So now D2, if the players even get a hint that Activision pulled content on D2, crippled design goals... I truly believe it will doom any future D3. IMHO, the destiny fans will not suffer another $$$ debate over content be it real or suspected only. That said, fans need to be rationale about what can be created in 2 years versus 3 or 4, how long was Halo 3 in development? Speaking of Halo... Microsoft and 343 have failed to learn this lesson, Halo 4 was horrible with its 14 missions or so? And 343 promised Halo 5 would be real content, and what did we get? 16 missions but they are so uniform and bland they feel like 5 missions broken up into segments nothing more, event Halo 1, 2, and 3 had an open world feel and feeling of something new around the next corner. But Halo 4 to an extent, and then literally in Halo 5, the story line really was nothing but hype, and the Chief is in the game barely at all. Cortana is a bit character, no pun intended on use of the word 'bit' of course. Now we hear debate about Halo 6, which IMHO I think is very much sink or swim for Halo universe. I think Activision and Bungie need to see the real lesson that Microsoft and 343 failed to see, twice... You can't abuse the fan base, you can't put out crippled, limited, poorly scoped gaming and expect default acceptance. Many purchased Halo 5 thinking a lesson was learned, only to find out it was not. D2 is the same scenario I think, it has to, at a rationale level, meet reasonable fan expectations, especially the DLCs, most importantly the DLCs, or D3 may never see the light of day.
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Agree on the gutting and DLC but Bungie signed up with Activision and decisions are made on feasibility to profit pleasing the majority. The (very) few Bungie guys who are still there from the heydays are getting older and I'm sure a lot of their decisions are based on the same principle. The firing/dismissal/quitting of Staten and then O'Donnell and countless other artists was the end of Bungie and the start of Bungievision. I can't imagine the game ever pleasing all the crowds but it is regardless, a profitable venture. Halo should have closed the door at 4. Halo 5 made me want to cry. The game has nothing to do with Halo anymore. Regardless of game mechanics that don't work for me, art/environment/story could not have been more disappointing. Actually, one game managed to be more disappointing, Mass Effect Andromeda, I played it for a few hours and sobbed. See above lol Destiny is what it is, the foundation was laid in vanilla. I can't imagine much change will be going on in future sequels. I love the shooting part but I play very little nowadays, so there's enough for me to be happy shooting random stuff elegantly ;) As a casual player, I will probably never complete a raid, or spend hours doing cartwheels backwards while jumping on puzzle bridges and scouting 1000 locations to obtain that elusive weapon everyone wants. Probably will spend a lot of time looking at the environment and shooting stuff in D2. One of the nice things about the server situation is that there is no need to compromise on the art part and the game won't look like Halo 5, a constant struggle to keep fps (all shiny plastic, zero texture, w/ enemies blurring in and out depending on their proximity). Also, being in Hawaii, dedicated servers are complete hell for us... Bungie had an ambitious goal, some of it worked really well, some of it not so much, but you can't please everyone. Wish them luck with the PC crowd. Ay-ay-ay o_O
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ME Andromeda, was such a surprise... in the negative, for me as well, every time I see it in my games list, I struggle to select it... Never thought I would feel that way about ME.
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Edited by Mar: 6/2/2017 11:02:00 PMThe biggest problem facing destiny 2 is that no one can temper expectations anymore. They all expect every game to be the best thing ever, the game to put all other game devs out of business, and they expect it to be able to be played without stop for years and years without ever having diminishing returns from playing it. No one expects what games are 90% of the time, a fun distraction to be played to have fun that might, at most last a few months to a few years before becoming completed to 100% and then cycled out. Everyone expects the next half life or World of Warcraft, instead of reality they want perfection handed to them on a platinum platter that they get paid for playing. There is nothing wrong with wanting a good product, or even having high expectations, but there is a point where when you start expecting things to be flawless or the best you've ever seen (which is the exception not the norm) people get disappointed with what they get. And because of their insane illogical expectations the response they give is equally illogical and they send death threats and all sorts of crazy nonsense, even becoming hostile to everyone else playing because of it. If people would just start coming back down to earth and understanding that something doesn't HAVE to be perfect to be enjoyed and hold products to more realistic standards then this would not be nearly the problem it is. Destiny 2 probably will be a improvement to Destiny 1 in some areas and might stay the same or go backwards to some other areas, there is not enough evidence to speculate at the moment. The one thing that is for sure is that morons will hate it because apparently it is cool / fun to hate everything recently, especially on the internet, and that people will hold it to a standard it can't possibly reach. If activision is too blind to understand that and hurts the game because the people outside their target demographic don't like it, then they are insane.
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Edited by Jibunnokage: 6/3/2017 10:25:04 PMAgree. I came to similar perspective in my reply to Wicked. And there are always examples of what a publisher should and should not do... Activision should not do, for example, what Microsoft/343 have done to Halo, talk about screwing up, and then screwing up worse again.
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Liked, holy hell. You hit the nail right on the head.
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Should make this a stand alone topic.
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Have +1 internet You should post this as a topic, it's a well thought and accurate.
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Don't expect too much out of life or games.
