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5/25/2017 1:23:01 PM
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Anyone else skeptical about the loadout system in D2?

From a PvP standpoint I can see why they went this route. It will vastly reduce the stranglehold shotguns and sniper rifles had on the crucible. But from a PvE standpoint I don't see any benefit. Having shotguns,fusions,and sniper rifles grouped up with rocket launchers and machine guns will limit our ability to adapt to different situations. Before we were able to wield both a sniper rifle to take on Tanky bosses and rocket launchers and machine guns to deal with mobs of enemies. Now it seems like we're gonna constantly have to switch up our power weapons to deal with different threats,losing our ammo in the process, instead of just simply pressing a button. This system just seems to limit our weapon choice for pve engagement instead of broaden it. Plus,in my opinion, I don't really see how a sniper rifle or shotgun fits into the [b]POWER[/b] weapon category, unless bungie plans on completely overhauling their damage.
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  • Anyone else waiting to play the game and see how it works before being "skeptical"?

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    • Ya I'm just as skeptical about this. Hopefully the power weapons end up being as powerful as current heavies, and the new elemental secondary weapons are as powerful as the current special weapons to account for the change. It would be a shame if the new loadout system ended up makimg us less powerful, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see

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    • I feel like the determining of what slot a weapon falls into (primary, secondary, power) should be based off of damage and not necessarily weapon type. Example: I could equip a sniper in the secondary slot that acts similarly to the snipers in destiny 1, and/or equip a "heavy sniper" in the power slot that deals a much larger amount of damage but for increased recoil and less ammo capacity. This example I feel would work well snipers and shotguns but not the traditional heavies. This idea was based with PvE in mind. I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work in crucible without millions of nerfs, but hopefully the patches and balances stay in the respective mode (PvE or PvP).

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    • Destiny is becoming a pvp focused game unfortunately. Look at Halo games, all great up until 5. Don't get me wrong, pvp was great in Halo 5 but story/campaign was terrible and the game is almost dead. I hope Destiny takes a different road but I have my doubts.

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    • I feel like I love the new system and hate it at the same time. I can pair two primaries and PvP will be less about one hit kills. However, PvE, which I care about most, seems to have been affected the most. During gameplay of the Inverted Spire strike, someone used a sniper on the boss, but it didn't seem to scale up the damage because it was a power weapon, it seemed like a normal, fast firing sniper rifle right now. Shotguns also [u]looked[/u] to do the same amount of damage as shotguns now. Now, I haven't had hands on experience, but it looks like boss fights have been artificially extended now that our main damage dealers are primaries.

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    • At the moment yes I'm skeptical. But I'm willing to reserve judgment and wait till beta to see how the system feels for both PvP and PvE. However, I completely agree with you on the PvP aspect. It's going to make it better, special weapons have proven to be impossible to balance in Destiny one time and time again.

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    • Personally, I'm super excited for it, even as a primarily PvE player. In D1 I always feel like my heavy weapon is going to waste. I don't need or want a rocket launcher or LMG against most enemies, so they only get any use on bosses. I've always wished I could put a sniper in my heavy slot, because then I'd actually use all those purple ammo boxes that drop before a boss. And most goes d snipers have high enough damage they're still useful against bosses. Putting energy primaries in the second slot sounds like a great move too. I've always thought a Scout Rifle would complement the range of my go-to hand cannons perfectly. I feel like people are worried that if they have to choose between a sniper and a rocket launcher their DPS against bosses will suffer too much. And in D1, they would be right. But don't forget, D2 PvE content will be designed and balanced with the new weapon loadout system in mind. You're not going to be left high and dry with two primaries and a special, because that's what will be expected in D2. I also wouldn't be surprised if snipers, shotguns, and fusions get buffed in D2 to put them more on par with rocket and grenade launchers. Shotguns probably won't need to have their damage drop off a cliff beyond melee range, fusions might be able to fire faster, snipers might be able to be more stable. And all three will likely get much more ammo per drop than grenade and rocket launchers.

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      • I'm happy with it, it's how Destiny 1 was originally meant to be

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      • From what we've seen there aren't rocket launchers, and machine guns have been replaced with the new Gatling guns.

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        • I mean, sort of? But now we get new types of weapons, and they also fixed the elemental issue. I think once we get into it, we won't care as much that we won't "have 2 power weapons anymore". Kinetic/elemental/power will work just fine.

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        • Scout rifle Hand cannon Fusion Sounds pretty dope to me

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          • I'm more worried about the simplified class options, only having two builds per subclass.

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            • It'll be fine IF they take steps towards offsetting the balance upset. - Reducing Major counts, and reducing Major/Ultra Health Pools. - Steady abundance of "Power Ammo". Either by increased drop rates or that in PvP you get, or by making the D1 "Free/Pity ammo timer" constantly on for Power Weapons to combat shit-luck RNG. - Special weapons moved too the D2 Power weapon slot get notable buffs. Fusions are going to be in a bad place in PvE due to Snipers. Shotguns will be in a Bad place in PvE due to Swords. General reserve ammo buffs. Magazine size buffs. More archetypes (maybe like making Sleeper esq fusion rifles) - Buff Pulse Rifles, Auto's and possibly SMGs in PvE. Right now, Hand Cannons and Scout Rifles are the Go to weapons for PvE (outside very specific weapons), because of their high burst damage, a single bullet often being enough to kill a mob in the case of hand cannons, where Scouts can do the same to a lesser extent, they work with effectiveness from all ranges. Autos require getting silly close to have anything CLOSE to a offense even being remotely considerable, and thus have a lot of drawback with not much payoff. Pulses are not bad by any means, but there's nothing they really can do that Scouts can in PvE. Outside some outstanding exotics like Badjuju and Outbreak Prime. - More interesting mechanics to take advantage of. What if the Hive were vulnerable to Solar Damage? Vex vulnerable to Arc? What if shooting enemies standing in water caused arc damage to chain between them without need of any perks? What if Armor Piercing arounds could actually bypass enemy physical barriers and walls (and balance it in PvP with a ramp up to range falloff) For all we know, they've taken some steps like the above already, but the issue is though is that they've SHOWN us what they've taken in this issue, but not what they've given or changed. They should have gon in length about what's being done to make this NOT a strict downside in PvE.

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            • I'm a little disappointed fusion rifles are now heavy weapons. They don't deserve this nerf

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            • We'll see how it turns out.

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            • I'm not skeptical about any of it. The game as we play it today has improved vastly over the past few years. From the way we level up, the in-game economy, material gathering, the rewards system, raids, in-game events such as Iron Banner mayhem clash and damn near [i]every[/i] other aspect of game has improved. [spoiler]Luke Smith was 100% right... we threw lots of money at our screens.[/spoiler] [spoiler]I sure did... and will continue to be it through the Bungie store or in-game.[/spoiler] [spoiler]I am not affiliated with Bungie in any way other than loving the games they make.[/spoiler]

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            • Where's everyone that wanted Elemental Primaries? Can we get them a round of applause for making this possible?

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              • They've definitely changed the way that the sandbox works along with it, seeing as they had to program the game from the ground up in their new engine it was probably tweaked and fine-tuned from early in development.

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                • It seems an odd choice considering they went after lapsed and new players.

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                • They probably balanced the fights with that in mind.

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                • Well Shotguns and Sniper Rifle are both high-powered weapons that do a large amount of damage to their targets. I think the Kinetic-Energy-Power weapons system will give players a more realistic feeling of needing to conserve their power ammo.

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                • I can maybe understand shotguns needing more pve damage for a power weapon but snipers deal large amounts of damage. They are in fact power weapons.

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                • Edited by d07monkey81: 5/27/2017 12:40:02 PM
                  Honestly I'm reserving judgment until I get to play it. Problem we have right now is bungie made a game that for the most part was broken in terms of PvP. They didn't know how the community would play this game and eventually realised their mistakes way too late to change and the community got accustomed to the way it was and were in uproar when changes got made. Players discovered things bungie didn't intend, which made the crucible play style not what they intended. Here's a few examples. [b]movement[/b] Bungie didn't expect players to master rapid movement in this game. Giving them the ability to close engagement distances fast. Using titan skating/warlock surfing. [b]1 hit kills[/b] whilst Bungie wanted weapon diversity in this game it didn't play out that way. Players gravitated towards 1 hit kill weapons with shotguns being a player favourite. Special weapons were being used as primary's and the ability for good players to 'warrior' rooms of people with a combination of 1 hit kills and movement speed. [b]time to kill[/b] bungie wanted a dynamic shooter that's 'easy to get into but hard to master' a quote coined recently by Luke Smith. The current crucible is brutal for new players because of the over reliance of 1 hit kill weapons. Bungie didn't want to make a Call of Duty clone where there were insanely fast times to kill and the rapid twitch movement meant if you saw your opponent first you'd win the engagement. But inadvertently the prevalence of special weapons made it just that. Primary gunfights become more or less redundant. [b]abilites[/b] our Guardians abilities have become a crutch, spamming grenades and panic supers. Even the worst players can get easy kills with super/and abilities but at the detriment of their gunplay. [b]weapon choice[/b] whilst weapon choices are abundant in our current PvP the Meta actually restricts your choices if you want to be competitive at the top level. This also ties into one hit kills because of the special ammo change making guns like universal remote, no land beyond and Icebreaker more prevalent because they 'work around' the ammo economy So the new crucible has addressed these problems. Movement has been restricted by removing Titan skating, and other speed options, One hit kills are now a 'power' weapon and are very limited therefore reducing the amount of people who relied on special. Primary and elemental weapons now mean more primary fights and more emphasis on team work & team shooting. New Guardian abilities now require a more tactical usage players who spam abilities or panic super will need to adapt their game. Also I wouldn't think that unique guns like uni remote Icebreaker & no land to be included in our loadouts In summary we have being playing a PvP game that divides opinions on how it should be played. Personally I can't wait to play it I'm happy they are making changes to make it more balanced. And the fun part of playing a new game is learning how to master it. Let's be honest do we really want a carbon copy of Destiny's PvP just dropped into D2? I for one do not. And I'm sure there would be uproar if they did.

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                  • Honestly, from all the videos I've watched, I'm pretty skeptical too. Now, I'll be able to use two "primary weapons" (one with an elemental burn, one without) and then one "power" weapon, which is pretty much all the other non-primary guns from Destiny 1, like fusions, rocket launchers, shotguns, etc. But hey. I'm not gonna judge anything until I actually try out the game

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                  • Idk why you are skeptical. In pvp it works perfectly so that's good and also more primaries can be used without having to have just one. Also in pve I'm sure enemy health will be reduced or ammo drops and reserves will be adjusted to help fight the change.

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                  • I love pairing a scout rifle with a hand cannon then a sniper or rocket launcher in the last slot. It is like a western style load out system minus the rocket launcher

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