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9/26/2016 5:52:25 PM
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It seems a lot of people are a bit confused on "weapon diversity".
While this has been mentioned, I just want to revisit the topic. When they say they are/were improving "weapon diversity" They are not necessarily talking about you having to swap between a diverse set of primaries. They are usually referring to the diversity of different primaries used by different players.
At the moment there is not one single "God Primary" that everyone uses. There might be the same perk sets people are after but the guns we all use vary quite a bit. Between the 4 gun types as well as the stat archetypes within those. This seems to have been the intent and it's working fine.
If you bring back elemental primaries, diversity would diminish like it was before. When every player in the game is swapping between the exact same 3 primaries for damage type, this is not diversity and makes other primaries kind of pointless in pve content.
The Zhalo Supercell walks the line here as well. Everyone who has it has been using it in heroics this week for obvious reasons and it's a great weapon on it's own. But the arc damage is more than a mechanic on this weapon. It's super flavorful and fits very well, where the arc damage on fate bringer was more of a "hey check out the infinitely more useful primary just because we want raid weapons to be actually used".
However, I also don't feel like the power level elemental primaries grants is that necessary. I've been running heroics with supercell just like everyone else and shredding. But I've also been using the strikes to test out some of my other primary weapons. And naturally supercell melts things a bit faster, but it's more of a quality of life benefit and less of a manditory one. I can still walk in there with my explosive rounds Cryptic Dragon and perform just fine. While obviously the arc damage means things die faster, it's not a requirement to perform well in a heroic and thinking that we "need" elemental primaries begs the question.
Why?
Why do we NEED them, of course they'd be nice but I don't feel like we struggle in any given content in a way that's solved by this mechanic being brought back. If it did, the only benefit would be a slight quality of life boot, or a crutch for those not performing well with normal kinetic damage primaries. And the downside of all other primaries being basically obsolete in pve content would drastically outweigh those benefits.
That is only my opinion however and if they decided we DO in fact need elemental primaries again, introducing a way to add elemental damage types to a primary of your choice would be cool and avoid the problem mentioned above and I feel is actually the best approach -IF- they felt the need to bring back the elemental primary roles.
Also I realize this post is really replying to the comments in this thread and less to the first post, and OP doesn't seem to feel the NEED for it so much as they were cool, and they are, as long as it doesn't make our current favorite weapons dead in pve again.
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I think you're missing the point here. I was personally want elemental primaries back no because they make strikes with burn a bit easier, I want them back as a trophy to reward my effect. Whether bungie wants to admit it or not this game is an MMO. One of the main draws of MMO's is running endgame content to get BETTER and MORE POWERFUL gear. It currently doesn't feel that way. You can get a vendor weapon with better rolls than the raid gear and you can hit max light with IB/trials. There is little reason to grind out the raid (especially hardmode) anymore. I personally never bothered with Hard mode kingsfall and only did normal 3 or 4 times for TOM and fragments.
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>Says this is an MMO >Lists every reason Bungie has implemented to remind people it's not really an MMO.
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And that's where destiny falls short. It takes the worst parts of MMO's (having to deal with AFK, rubbish team mates, grinding same content over and over) and leaves out the best parts(getting OP weapons out of said grind to wreck face). Destiny is now like the child that got born with all the bad traits from both parents.
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2/3 things you listed are inherent to all online multiplayer games.
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so everyone using zahlo was diverse ?
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Edited by GutturaI: 9/27/2016 12:17:37 PMA nice post on the subject. Thank you. But I disagree with some of your points: Zhalo: this weapon is extremely similar to Fatebringer in that it too is infinitely more useful in Arc Burns. General Weapon Diversity: this has not improved, nor is the game currently improved due to removing elementals. I myself, along with everyone I've seen, still gravitate toward the 'best' primary in each archetype. If they don't have that one then they use the next best thing, same as when we had elementals. My opinion is that removing the elementals has removed a big part of what made this game fun to play.
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TTK release Hung Jury. Enough said.
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Someone had to say it. When elemental primaries were a thing, they made EVERY kinetic primary obsolete and literally useless. I think a good middle ground is properly rewarding all exotic primaries with burns. They are exotics after-all.
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[quote]rewarding all exotic primaries with burns.[/quote] I could go along with this. Solar or Void MIDA? I'm in. XD
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Now every kinetic primary is obsolete besides the 'best' weapon of each archetype. What's the difference? I certainly don't see an improvement in weapon diversity... one difference I do see is the game is less fun without the elementals.
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Edited by Hiatus: 9/27/2016 7:05:31 PMThat's not true at all. I see a diverse amount of primary weapons regularly [i]in PvE content[/i] where elemental weapons matter. The diversity is much, much greater than it was in year onE. PvP is an entirely separate discussion.
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The difference being, all primaries have use if given a roll that suits your playstyle. It's more of finding the selection of weapon archetypes that suit you. Not, " Oh, I better find a primary in all 3 burn types to do activities with burns. " There is no "best" weapon roll for a gun. That's purely subjective to playstyle.
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So that wasn't also true when we had elementals? The elemental primaries had set rolls, so you were free then to use & love the different rolls that suited your playstyle. I know that there's not much 'subjectivism' in best weapon rolls right now. Everyone knows the god roll for each archetype and once they have it they're playing with those 2 or 3 primaries. All the time. The bottom line is that there is no great diversity now. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the real reason Luke Smith instigated this whole thing. What I honestly don't get is why some of you actually buy into it. It really doesn't make sense.
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When we had element primaries, we were pretty much limited to the elemental primaries. Why would you use a kinetic weapon? It was severely lacking the shield killing power and any form of buff from burns. This is why burns on primaries have been transitioned out.
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I hear what you're saying but I don't believe that's necessarily true. People still used 'good' kinetics like Yr1 Hawkmoon, Yr1 Regime, etc. Even now there still is nothing like some of the kinetic primaries (exotic and Legendary) so they would get used, I know I would still use some of my god roll kinetics. Except in burn strikes of course. But that's the thing, Luke Smith stated the elementals decreased weapon diversity; I don't buy that because I don't believe the situation is any better today. The same positive weapon diversity you use today as an example would have applied back then. Except in burns. And except for those who limited themselves to only using elementals, not sure why as there were other good weapons available. I didn't limit myself.
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Y1 Shadow Price was a God of Destruction...
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Jep, only Exotics with Burns. There is absolute no Reason why there is only a Zhalo with Burn
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Edited by Hiatus: 9/27/2016 7:10:46 PMYeah there is a reason, from a concept standpoint it's flavorful. The weapon generates chain lightnings. Everything about it screams "this should have arc damage" No other exotic primary conceptually does this, not even the Vex. Necrochasm was a stretch with its cursed thrall explosions, and likely the real reason was it was the last effort in making all raid exotics' special feature a burn; which they ditched in TTK. If they make other primary exotics that conceptually should have a burn, cool. However, just throwing burns on weapons is not okay.
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I agree with you, but in my opinion a golden middle path would be bringing atleast two other exotic primaries like the Supercell, but with void and solar. With the exotic slot taken, one has to sacrifice the Ghorn on the heavy slot or Spindle for example on the special slot. I see no problem in people using them all the time. Its their choice. When I get bored of using a weapon I switch to something else to spice it abit up.
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I look at it as more of set good rools of said primaries, give us a non elemental outlaw firefly handcannon stats like fatebringer and itll be used more. It was easier to grind for a set good roll weapon in raids as opposed to trying to hope for a good roll on leveling up factions or engrams
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You bring up an interesting point. Adding elemental damage to a primary. I thought of the swords, and how you had to complete quests to get one. That could be something they explore down the road. But I personally hope they don't. And bless you for giving the Fatebringer it's rightful props. I get so tired of hearing newer players celebrating when they get the Imago Loop to drop and start saying they finally got the year 2 Fatebringer. Looks like a Pit Bull, barks like a Pit Bull, but the bite is like a yorkie. It simply takes a bit more skill and patience to use the kinetic primaries, and I'm having fun with the game like it's new all over again.
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What I think would be interesting while keeping the weapon diversity you've so eloquently described; is some kind of consumable that gives your primary weapon a temporary elemental effect. Say, ten or thirty minutes. They could even give it a cool down like ammo synthesis.
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Just more shit we don't have room in our vault for.
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That's why I like the idea of embune. You could say give up your grenade to embune your weapon with the subclass your using. So, limit it to certain time limit with a cool down period. That would keep the diversity. I don't always use super cell as it is even currently. Simply because I have other weapons that I enjoy to use. Just miss having that option. To use them.
