Oh thats nice. Preach "NO NERF", but only NOW, after thr shotguns have been gutted and snipers are next on the chopping block. -blam!-ing hypocrites. No. Sniperd need to be gutten, so that maybe you crucible -blam!-wits STOP bitching and asking for nerfs. And realize that in a loot game, SOME weapons are better than others.

Primaries are not the issue. (Legendary) Hand cannons and most scout rifles have not lost or gained any damage since launch. I land headshots [u]at full damage, at max fire rate[/u] all day long with lord high fixer/last extremity and still get domed between hits. I don't have a problem with getting shot in the face if I miss, that's what a good sniper looks for. But being punished for good shooting is out of place. The problem is that the recenter is too quick, and returns exactly where you left it.

Dude, you've got a 35% precision kill with hc's. Don't even lie. You might be body shotting at max rate of fire, but that's it. If what I'm suggesting is wrong, then why did the consistency and strengths of primaries back in year one keep sniper and shotguns in check so well, and now they're not ever since the 2.0 patch ? You can go back and look at trials reports and look at 6v6 variants and I GUARANTEE that you will see a drastic increase of primary usage over secondary usage. People run to using secondaries because two shotting basically doesn't exist anymore outside of LiTC, CC, and RR. So why wouldn't people use a sniper that is a OHKO at mid to long range. Why wouldn't someone be a shotgun warrior the entire match that can OHKO at fairly decent range. The only thing that can counter reliably is using a secondary against a secondary. Before, that wasn't the case. PR's could two burst. Thorn could two tap. TLW could two tap. Mida had HCR before the recent nerf to it, removing that passive perk. The consistency needs to come back. I'm very welcoming to the thought of bringing back the ability to, "two shot" with primaries again. I have no problem with snipers or shotguns myself, no problem what so ever. But when the community is getting to the point where now they think snipers needs to be nerfed, that's a glaring issue that in my mind immediately shows that primaries aren't up to par anymore. Not that snipers need to be changed.

I never claimed 100% precision kill rate. That's inefficient, only 1 headshot and 2 bodies are needed (~33% precision). But a sniper doesn't stagger you with constant fire, making it easy to land consistent headshots. If you don't believe lack of sniper flinch is a problem, you have not done your homework. On a side note, a little humility never hurt anybody.

It only logs kills not hits

That's not going to change anything buffing primary won't stop snipers being used for everything give them a actual weakness put the risk of using it higher by increasing scope time and making the scope only centre when crouching or standing still and that's when we'll see a change or perhaps we should go back to spawning with out special ammo.

Honestly, just go back to spawning without special and don't spawn it in until 2:30. The issue is really that you never run out of ammo.

Yes it will change it. Dark below and HoW I rarely saw snipers. Primaries were actually good. What you are suggesting will not happen and if it does people will still kill you a lot with snipers and you will still complain.

Yes that's what I'm suggesting is to rise the risk in using them more the higher the risk of getting killed while using the less people will use it for everything and might think about changing their load outs. If it take to long to get into the scope at close to mid range you'll get people switching to primary for those battles instead being able to descope and rescope in under 2 seconds and kill any would be surprise attackers.

Then how long would it be before snipers began wanting the same effect on your gun of choice? Honestly, it's really a cycle of decay. There is risk in sniping. I can attest to that, because I just started doing it and unless I camp some tiny corner where I can only see a little sliver of the map, I get shot, made to disengage, and killed. I also get some kills that way, but it's not a free ride by any means. you want to know what kills me the most, honestly, as someone with really good map and radar awareness? A persistent grenade like a solar or a voidwall. When I come out of the scope, I can't tell where it is for a second, and that might be enough to kill me. It's happened more than once this IB. But on the flipside of that, I also don't get killed by sniper very much. Maybe 5-10 times in the entire IB. I know where they like to operate and I generally exercise extreme caution when going in those areas. I never pass a chokepoint at normal head level and I approach so I can see through the opening as much as possible. If I see a glint, I immediately either slide or jump back and away as fast as I can, and never give them a second more to shoot at me. If I can think of a plan in 2-3 seconds to get at them without exposing myself, I might do it, but otherwise, I go kill someone else. They're just one guy shooting at 3 or 6, and someone will eventually get pissed and push them out anyways. You don't 'have to' attack the sniper (there seems to be a moth and flame thing going on with them though). It's really not the guns, it's a mentality about using them and fighting them that most people have a problem with. 'They're medium to long range guns!' Not if I can make them work in the short range, they aren't. Technically, a rocket launcher is a medium to long range weapon too, but if I can get a multikill by shooting at my feet, best believe it just became a CQC piece in a big hurry. Not supposed to work that way, but it did. Don't worry about what it should do, or shouldn't do, in fact don't think of the other guy at all. Focus on your own game and improving play habits and you'll improve quicker and have more fun to boot. I'm constantly analyzing me, not the guy that killed me; I can't control what he does, but I can change what I do to make the situation come out differently.

The first part depends on map and how good the team is working together some maps are bottle neck maps where multiple snipers can just sit at the back and no one can touch them take Venus for example so easy to watch the bottle necks with a sniper and no one will be able to touch you. And yes I agree you only see so much in the scope but you can have radar equipped with some exotics or perks etc. But getting in and out of the scope that quickly makes it very hard to stop someone camping at the back of the map yes it may only be one person in some cases on some maps the whole team may choose to defend one area like on one of the fire base on Mars where they can all guard the inside bungie seems to only know how to make bottle neck maps. Second part yes I could just avoid those areas but on some maps the whole area is like that and yes I could take advantage and just go the whole map scoping out the place but sniper rifes are surpose to have a weakness aren't they at the moment the weakness seems very small unlike shotgun or fusion rife no wonder when I fly in with teams and look at the load outs I see 8 to 10 snipers no matter the map they still rather have a sniper than a shotgun. Thrid part yes I agree with you but this game is surpose to have balance they want you to use every gun but at the moment all you see is sniper rifes in pve everyone says bring a sniper you'll need it for everything pointless to have shotguns in pve. Yes I agree with your mentally saying that if I can use it in that range but heavy is different you have a very high risk of blowing yourself up if used in cqc snipers seem to have no risk and are very powerful that's why people use them. Yes it may change the game a bit but most of the game I find to easy we might if to use team work more if snipers took longer to get into. Yes this may incourage hard scopeing more but if you can only see so much of the map this is the weakness of snipers but cuase you can get into the scope so quick you can just chose not to scope until the last second before a guy can kill you and still pull off a head shot making it take longer to get into the scope will put the risk up of using it in certain areas more making it so you if to find a spot so that no one can get to you before you can take them out.

I can't think of a Venus map where that's ever been an issue for me, unless there is a full fireteam all sniping in coordination, but that's irrelevant anyways. If they are a full fire team working together on mics, and your team isn't you're doomed anyways unless the enemy is just trash. I assume you're speaking more in the realm of 3's than 6's. If it's skirmish, you have to find a away to get one man off balance; getting 2 people in the air with hand cannons or AR's seems to do the trick most of the time. Either get the kill or push them back. Pursue cautiously and get one down, 3 on 1 if you have to. Once you are inside that perimeter of scoping, they either call it out and have to scramble, which a lot of snipers suck at, or they don't and you have flank routes out the yin yang on the other 2. Get the lead, and then go sit down somewhere nice and safe; force them out of the passive space. They have to come to you to not lose, and you can start engaging them in a fire fight at that point. It's boring and slow at first, but it does work. You just have to build some momentum first and then hold your advantage. If we're talking trials or elimination, just camp near the cap point. Nothing is crappier than losing the match when you've killed someone and they haven't. Long story short, there are other ways to face these weapons than guns a-blazing.

Those tactics are not smart moves getting into the air on almost all maps just makes you a easy target. Camping the flag point that the most open spot on the map in some case so easy to pick you off. Getting a sniper off balance is hard cuase you can easily be picked off by the team mate and they might choose to battle you making you come out of cover into a spot which they can snipe you in yes you could just do the same thing but when the match becomes who'll be the first to give in and try to break cover in order to get to the flag or to get to a point where you can see the other team the bigger area you can control the more likely your going to win one reason why I like moon base cqc is cuase their only like one or two points where a sniper team can defend from.

Yes I get that your saying but sometimes you can't get one man off balance cuase the whole team is that good and they won't let you get into that area to off balance him. You know jumping into the air is a rubbish tactic you'll be picked off cuase they are that quick you might as well just give them the win cuase you won't make a come back and it's pointless camping the flag cuase in most cases that's the most open spot.

The other guy is right about using vertical space. It depends on how or when you use it, but you shouldn't dismiss it as a rubbish tactic. Part of what makes the best players in the world as good as they are is their use of vertical space. When you have to run past a door way, go ahead and jump: you're making it that much harder for a sniper to pull a headshot off that way. While this is one way to use vertical space, it isn't as important as throwing grenades or shooting while you jump. Obviously if you jump and try to shoot someone from 150+ feet away, you're just making yourself an easy target. However, jumping and shooting becomes extremely useful as you close the gap within the effective range of handcannons. But when you do this, you shouldn't be too high when you jump. Even a slight change in height will be enough to prevent someone from landing enough headshots on you. Sliding can help as well not only when you move past doorways, but sometimes when you go into engagements yourself. If you're unsure how to use vertical space correctly, go ahead and watch players like TrueVanguard, Luminosity, or SirDimetrious. All of these players have very different play styles, yet they all have one thing in common about them: they use their vertical space to gain an advantage. This is crucial as it becomes extremely easy to not only snipe players who don't use vertical space, but also to out primary them as well. https://youtu.be/RyLGxeRwcIY Notice how in nearly every engagement, he uses vertical space. I think it would a good idea for you to pick up on what this guy does. He's not the best player, but he performs certain fundamental actions that he and other top players use.

I see so continue to jump or slide on every moment instead of running forward normally might take some Patrice and you'll if to avoid uneven areas in case you get stuck on when you land this might be better than just running around everywhere

Yup, that's exactly right. I'll admit it took me a while to get used to at first, but it becomes second nature after a while. Kudos to you for being able to willingly take advice. I don't know how many times I've told people to do something like this and they absolutely refuse to do it.