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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Marc MJM: 6/29/2016 11:57:05 AM
266

SBMM Has Destroyed Destiny, and Here's Why

As Alexander Payne once said, "You just never know when you're living in a golden age." I know now that if Destiny ever had a golden age, it is long gone, but can it ever come back? It depends on if we speak up. The implementation of Skill-Based Matchmaking has destroyed this game. Match times take twice as long as before, and the matches that we do get thrown into are either in progress or are complete sweat fests. It doesn't help that our once-favorite Exotic guns now feel like severely mediocre pea shooters that are mere shells of their former selves. Still, for the purposes of this post, I would like to focus on SBMM. A little about myself. Last summer, I pulled consistent 2.5 to 3 k/ds and found that I was at the top of the scoreboard almost every match. On an average game, I would pull about a 2 to a 2.3 k/d. On an above-average game, I would pull as high as a 5 k/d. Now, I am lucky to even go neutral, and that's putting it lightly. My overall kill/death ratio is somewhere around 2.1 (give or take). The k/ds of the players who I am matched against are 1.5, 2, and 3, whereas the k/ds of the players on my team are .9 to 1.2 (at the highest). Can someone please explain to me how this is fair? Way back, the k/ds of my opponents and teammates alike typically ranged from .8 to 1.3, but as of June 2016 they are more than double these values. Some of you will argue that I was never good at the game to begin with if I cannot compete against players who share my skill set. You may be right, but why should that matter? At the end of the day, Destiny is supposed to be a casual shooter, and as such I should not be forced to play my heart out every single match against players who are just as good if not better than me. Another argument some of you will make is that the only way to truly improve at a game is to play against difficult opponents. What backwards logic. How am I supposed to improve as a player when the anger and frustration brought upon by difficult opponents negatively affect my performance in game? The truth is that you can only improve against weak opponents, not strong ones. It is the same principle in MMOs: you start off fighting lower tier enemies until you are strong enough to fight the higher tier ones. In Destiny's multiplayer, if you possess an overall 1.5 k/d or higher, there is simply NO room for improvement because you are only as strong as Bungie thinks you should be. Essentially, the only way up is down. "But Marc, SBMM finally gives below-average players the chance to compete. You shouldn't be allowed to pull 2 and 3 k/ds every match--that's just unfair to everyone else!" While that may be true for below-average players (the minority), you are literally alienating the rest of everyone else by forcing them to regress to the mean and re-normalize their k/ds against their will. If Bungie is so avid about keeping SBMM in the game despite 90% of the player base blatantly objecting to it on the forums and otherwise, then they need to RESTRICT it to SPECIFIC playlists (i.e.: Iron Banner and Trials of Osiris) that are skill-based by nature. We, the Destiny community, should be given the option to play hyper-competitive matches at our leisure, not all the time. In addition, the only surefire way to resolve the connectivity crisis that is plaguing matchmaking right now is to 100% prioritize the best possible connections over skill. Doing so will make Destiny fun again, but most importantly, doing so will MAKE DESTINY GREAT AGAIN! TL;DR -- Skill-Based Matchmaking has destroyed this game because it favors the minority of players yet excludes the majority, forcing them into ultra-competitive matches without taking into consideration casual play styles and optimum connections. In that regard, Bungie needs to either abolish or restrict SBMM to playlists such as Iron Banner and Trials so that the Crucible can be the light-hearted experience that it once was. EDIT 6/29: So many "you shouldn't be pulling 2 and 3 k/ds every match because that's unfair for us casual players!!" comments. I guess I should have known what to expect. Clearly some of you have short attention spans and did not actually read my post. By catering to the noobs, you alienate the people who actually perform consistently well. Why should players whose k/ds exceed 1.5 need to suffer at the expense of everyone else? That is an emulation of socialism, and it hasn't worked in a single country. One other thing I would like to clear up is that I don't want Bungie to get rid of SBMM across the board so that I can pub stomp everyone again. I want them to RESTRICT SBMM to specific playlists so that the Crucible is not ultra-competitive everywhere we go. Lastly, even if I did go back to getting 25, 30, or 40 kills a match, I'd probably lose anyway. Any time I did exceptionally well in Year 1 was most likely when the rest of my team did exceptionally poor. It's just the way the universe works.

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  • Edited by cHeDdAr0ChEeSe1: 5/30/2017 11:58:15 AM
    I don't believe this "SBMM" works at all. Generally, I don't have a challenging match. In fact, most matches I play are at either end of the spectrum. Either I whoop the other team, or I get absolutely stomped and can't even get a shot in before dying. To be clear, this happens whether I'm playing with friends or alone. Personally, I'd rather have matches of crucible that I actually have to fight for but that rarely happens for me. SBMM would be enjoyable to me if it actually worked, and from my experience with the game, it doesn't. I also realize that this is probably a moot point as D2 is well on its way, I just feel the need to vent as a returning y1 player.

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  • This is a great joke post, rofl

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  • How do you possibly state that the majority of players are above [i]average[/i]? Yes, in these forums and reddit and the like, the majority of players are above average,[b] but you are the minority of the whole community.[/b] Most players are not above average, I am not even sure the rationale behind saying that. You mean to tell me of the millions of players, most are above average? Most people can go head to head against people that play a few dozen matches a day? Your perspective is way off because you are looking out for you. As someone who plays about 3-5 days a week and has a career, hell -blam!-ing yeah I want to be matched with someone on my level. Why the -blam!- do I want to get the shit kicked out of me? Theres the fun in that? And I am not even bad, I fancy my K/D on my hunter pretty damn good the last few IBs. Its just funny to hear a complaint that effects a small portion of a enormous crowd.

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    • So your basic argument boils down to, "I'm mad because I'm no longer Rofl-stomping n00bs!" The notion the you, "get better by playing people that aren't as good as you vs players that are the same/better than you" is literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read! When you play people below your skill level you don't even need to really try. Whereas when you play people of a similar skill level you need to be on top of your game. I've never heard Bungie say they think Destiny is a "casual" shooter, so that notion is asinine! Being sad and feeling inferior because your K/D ratio has dipped is squarely on you! My suggestion, quit crying like a baby and actually put some effort in. Some people are good, others not so much. Everyone should be in a similar skill bracket. Maybe the answer is a new playlist for people that don't like sbmm. They should call the "teary little baby" playlist! It's where you can all sit around and cry to each other about having to try. No one will win and everyone's K/D will be 1 cause no one will die. The biggest problems with this are wait times and I'm sure Bungie is working on a solution...

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      • Ok, I can understand the issues with connectivity and being thrown into a already in progress match (which normally is at the beginning of a match, not one over half way finished), but seriously SBMM is not that bad. I think it makes the playing field better keeping all of the players within a general range of similar high k/d ratios together away from the one who have a .6 k/d ratio. If you are as good as you so claim to be then you should not be having issues with coming at the top of the leader board. Also getting frustrated and extremely angered at a game does not benefit your skills or your personal self, it actually hurts you in the long run which you stated that you know you get worse by getting frustrated and angered. So stop getting so frustrated it's just a game. I've improved so much in the last year and guess what? It's not because of me losing my temper and getting frustrated, it's because of me staying calm and staying focused. It doesn't bother me if I get my a** handed to me anymore. Sitting here and whining about it is just going to make them ignore you and keep it even longer. All I'm saying is long how to control your anger and you wouldn't have these major problems with highly skilled based games.

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      • Don't mind the prebs commenting under you. These are the ones that you toyed with year 1. These are the ones afraid to acknowledge Bungie's regressive idiosyncrasies.

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      • You could just... try harder. Or take that sweet sweet loser EoM drop every once in a while.

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        • isnt it competative multiplayer not casual multiplayer?

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        • I'm starting to wonder if it might be related to what console you're on https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/207967511?sort=0&page=0

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        • What is worse ? High kd sweaty game or a low kd sweaty game. Everybody I'm sure try's to do the best they can.

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        • The title of your complaint says it all. And wow is it misinformed and stupid. Nothing personal. SBMM destroyed the game? What the actual hell is that supposed to mean? But be real. Look at the number of people who play this game still, then get back with me. Your logic is backwards and flawed. SBMM allows a little light to fight other little lights, and not gigantic gods like you. You would have it so babies would be crushed by you, only because you are tired of other people who are equal or better than you. Forgive me, that sounds like entitled whining and major hubris, no matter how intellectual it sounds. Your opinions are noted. Destiny still rolls on (destroyed? Ha.) and Im sorry Destiny does not capitulate to demands like yours.

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        • Edited by albeezy: 6/29/2016 8:14:26 PM
          Couple of things I noticed in your post: [quote]90% of the player base complains on the forums[/quote] I highly doubt 90% of the player base views these forums AND posts complaints about SBMM. You know who does complain about SBMM on these forums?[spoiler]people with high kds who don't like not having 2-3 kds every match and seeing their KD drop because they are playing talent on par with their own[/spoiler] [quote]destiny is supposed to be a casual shooter[/quote] Then why are you crying that you are not "always" at the top of the leaderboard with a 2-3 KD? If you were playing this game as if it was a casual shooter then it wouldn't matter. Also, if you got your version of a casual shooter (eg, you topping every leaderboard with your really high KD) that would mean everyone on the opposing team would feel like they were playing sweats. So 6 people should feel like destiny is a sweatfest so you can feel like you are playing a casual shooter that you take ultra seriously? [spoiler]if you become angry and frustrated when playing difficult opponents you are clearly not playing a casual shooter or are playing a casual shooter and taking it way too seriously. [/spoiler]

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          • I think everyone that argues against cbmm doesn't understand 2 things. 1: cbmm doesn't mean 1.5s are getting .5s every match. It means that sometimes you will have a sweaty match, and sometimes you will have a massacre. But is there really that much of a difference from 11000-20000 and 5000-20000? In each case the losing team is hating the game. There is not that much difference in desperation levels. 2: for me at least, I am not asking for me to pub stomp every game. I just want to be able to have a crazy game every once in a while (once every 2 weeks or something) which seems borderline impossible with sbmm.

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          • your entire post is asinine if you want to have a easy casual shooter experience play PVE if you want competitive play pvp "no but i want a casual pvp experience" id suggest rock paper scissors then.

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            • I'll honestly never fully grasp or understand the whole "sweat fests" argument or the "now i'm playing people my skill level, this sucks" argument. It's almost as if people want it to be easy to win and have high k/d & scores... It's like shooting hoops with your 5 year old cousin and then bragging about how hard you 'pwned' him.

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              • The real TL;DR: I'm not doing as well as I used to because I can't curbstomp the lower skilled players and I'm upset"

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              • [quote]While that may be true for below-average players (the minority), you are literally alienating the rest of everyone else by forcing them to regress to the mean and re-normalize their k/ds against their will. [/quote] Skimmed through it till I got to this...and realized no only are you full of it, you also have no idea which players are the minority. The pro player and high kd players (as you claim to be) are the minority. The majority of the players (on most if not all games) are the average and below average players. Yes sbmm is an issue (considering the peer to peer connection), but that's a lag issue. Your precious kd means nothing if you're playing against players not on your skill level. Instead of complaining about how bad your kd has gotten against equally skilled players how about getting to the important facts about lag and leave your kd out of it.

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              • This argument is too long and drawn out to be so flawed; Too much to even respond to. To keep it simple, you are using statistics that you have no way of knowing. You don't know if 90% of players like or dislike SBMM. You just don't. Here's a fake stat for you that I bet is more accurate. This forum is 90% toxic hate. So you surely don't have enough opinion from those who like anything in this game. Furthermore, your post has an implied intricate knowledge of SBMM. Bungie has only said so much publicly about it. Yet you cite an example(s) where you have implied that you have researched and graphed the trends of the players' KDR you have matched up against and with. Unless you have a graph or data... (likely not or you would have let work speak for itself) ...you're going on a hunch, which is probably not only wrong, but wrong as F***. This is not to say you have not [i]felt[/i] a difference, but that is all any of the Anti SBMM camp can say. All those pre-rebuttals and numbers are cute, but 'round here we call spades, [i]spades[/i]. Show data or this goes in the circular file. Your argument is simply: "I don't like SBMM because, I feel like I'm not as successful in the Crucible as before. I feel like I'm forced to compete against players who are competing. Though I am not necessarily competing myself, I was having fun before when I was winning. I would like to stress that I am not a try hard I just liked winning. Oh and lag." Though your argument is a bit more this is what I hear. Maybe I'm off base. <shrugs> I personally don't feel a difference. Matchmaking times vary as always for me. I occasionally get red bars in game as always. I occasionally join matches that are in progress like always. My skill has risen in this game as I practice as always. I could pretty much say the above about every game.

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                • Sbmm is broken if anyone can just grab a low Kd friend and go to town with it and buff their Kd! Sbmm+global pvp+p2p = broken af!

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                • Edited by VinniVici: 6/30/2016 3:06:52 PM
                  I agree with some of your post. Don't mean to sound mean, but I didn't read it all. I just wanted to stop in and say that I don't like that my friends will place on top or near the top of the leaderboards when playing together, but if I join to have fun with my friends I'll be right on top and my friends will be dead last. The teams get way too hard for them and I just want to relax in the first place

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                • Bungie put SBMM in for the new players so on there crucible matches, there cute .2 kds arnt going agenst 2.0+ and because of them catering to the fraction of newbies, the majority of us must suffer. Thats why i propose an alternative. Have SBMM up to level 20, then once you pass that its CBMM for now on. That way everybody's happy. Bungie lives graphs so heres one... \ \ <----- bungies players per week \ \

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                  • Thank goodness I was terrible at crucible for a long time. Mostly just farmed crucible marks and didn't take it too serious. My k/d was bad for so long I can play SBMM and enjoy it.

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                  • I miss shooting those level 5 guardians with my thorn heh. [b]you heard me[/b]

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                  • Your understanding of Socialism is incredibly flawed and downright wrong. A Socialist MM system would match anyone and everyone together. There would be zero differentiation between K/Ds. You would have .8 taking on 3.0s because everyone is treated the same. The current system is more akin to a capitalist society. A high K/D puts a person in the upper class and they tend to not want to engage with the lower classes. You have put yourself in that position and could fix it by killing your K/D and dropping to a lower class. You choose to instead stay in the upper class and only fraternize with your upper class brethren. Ain't anybody's fault but your own.

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                  • Edited by sdfgtty67: 6/30/2016 5:56:52 AM
                    SBMM is the AIDS of Destiny. Burn it with fire!

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                  • At this point, I don't really see why developers implement sbmm anymore. It always seems to cause more problems than it's worth.

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