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Discuss all things Destiny.
6/7/2016 2:09:14 PM
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The importance of the paracausal power in Destiny and why Godhood is really what we're fighting for

So I have been getting into the destiny lore lately and am by no means an expert however I have to say that, based on everything I have read, the quest to Godhood seems to be the reason behind a majority of things in destiny. To begin, my entire argument stems from this notion of paracausal power within the Destiny Universe. While never explicitly explained, it seems that this "power" is simply ones ability to will the universe into becoming what you want it to be...laws of reality be damned. Through this force one is able to shape creation and, in "simplest" terms, become a god. This fact in my opinion makes this force easily [b]the most important thing in Destiny and is literally at the root of almost every conflict we as guardians face[/b]. To expand upon this, I would reference The Books of Sorrow, which catalog the history of the Hive/Oryx's rise to power. While the books tell a tale of conquest, power, and loss, I also believe that they are, at their heart, a giant monument to the importance of paracausal power and how it dictates practically everything in Destiny. For example, Oryx, his sisters, and the krill people were no different from us when they began and it wasn't until their compact with the worm gods that things began to change. Essentially, the most important thing the worms gave the hive/oryx (even more than eternal life in my opinion) was the ability to harness paracausal power (reference book card "The Sword Logic") via the sword logic, thereby giving the oryx/the hive the ability to warp reality and inadvertently become gods within the destiny universe. This is further reinforced by the fact that prior to being give this power by the worms the Hive were actually losing their war on fundament...specifically because Ammonites had already been gifted paracausal power by the Traveler. However, upon receiving/mastering this force, the hive were not only able to conquer the Ammonites but also countless other civilizations over thousands (possibly millions of years) and literally obtain godhood. Now, why are these facts important to us as guardians? Well, to put it bluntly, the Traveler has done [b]exactly[/b] the same thing to humanity as the worm gods did to the hive. Upon the Traveler's arrival humanity's technology increased drastically, as well as our lifespan. However, it was not until the Traveler gifted us with his Light that we truly ascended to the same level of Oryx/the Hive. The Light, which is essentially the Traveler/ the Sky's version of the worm gods/ the Deeps's sword logic, functions as a paracausal force that allowed guardians to both gain "immortality" through our ghosts (which are made of Light) but also the ability to warp reality and harness cosmic powers (arc/solar/void). Furthermore, the Light also seems to function [b]in exactly the same way as the sword logic[/b] becoming more powerful/bestowing greater power upon into wielder depending on how much death and destruction a guardian has caused (leveling up). This fact, in my opinion, makes the Light and the Sword Logic, the Traveler and the Deep, essentially [b]the same thing[/b]...just on different sides of the coin. This is critically important because it allows us to make the argument that Destiny is really a story about two God forces which oppose each other and, through that opposition create their own gods to do battle throughout the cosmos. This is reinforced by the constant references to godhood in the Book of Sorrows as well as the grim card "Osiris" where the Speaker himself calls the Traveler a "God incubator". The implications of this (if true) are astounding. First, it helps explain not only the motivations of the Traveler (which have always been shrouded in mystery), but also the motive behind the Darkness (aka the Deep). Second, it explains, why the Vex, the Fallen, and The Cabal have not been featured as much in content updates as the Hive have. Specifically, none of these races seem to have any link to/ability to harness paracausal power, though the Vex have tried to obtain it (reference book of sorrows cards: "open your eye, go into it" through "End of Failed Timeline"), and therefore have never really been on the scale of our conflict with the Hive. Thirdly, (and perhaps most interestingly) helps to paint Toland the Shattered as possibly the wisest character in Destiny. It is my belief that Toland figured all of this out through studying the hive and saw the truth in paracausal power. Because of this, as well as the vangauard/the speakers quasi denial that we are simply the Travelers tools for his own version of this force (two sides/same coin), decided to side with the hive mindset of gaining more power is the most important thing. Interesting thoughts, and I'm probably wrong but if all of this was true then...wow
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#Destiny #lore

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  • This actually makes a lot of sense. Really enjoyed reading this.

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  • If this is interesting for you, make sure you look up [b]Syndicate[/b]. Our main page will clear this out. Let me know if you found it. Thanks in advance.

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  • Yes we are fighting to be gods. That's why lvl 1 drags can kill us.

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    • Yeah man, I've read so much grimiore and never pieced together a theory as plausible as this one. Kudos on the bad assery

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    • I agree, I think the Hive will be the most central enemy throughout, unless the Cabal are also shown to have a connection to the darkness, with other raids and activities simply being side stories with the hive in the background. In terms of gameplay, I'm sure they'll try to make only 2 or so more Hive centric DLC's though.

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      • Actually we recieved the light via the ghosts when rasputin crippled the traveler could abandon us like the other civilizations before

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        • This is one of the most sensible theories I've ever heard. Just thinking about this makes me wonder what else the Darkness can throw at us. We've dismantled all of it's known forces, so maybe it's time these demigods face against a true god and put it down. Though maybe, at the same time, doing so would create more problems than it'd be worth. Maybe one cannot exist without the other, like Yin and Yang, so by defeating the Darkness we would be unbalancing all of creation. All of this could be a cycle that's destined to repeat again and again for all of eternity, and we're simply taking the place of civilizations eons past.

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        • This makes more sense then the idea that guardians are just zombie super soldiers that are pawns in a gods game/war. It's more like a creator god & a destroyer god battling it out threw the medium of other beings capable of achieving godhood. So these two great beings are just vying for the the fate of the universe using their power to forge other gods to save the civilizations they've claimed for light or dark, respectively. Interesting thoughts Guardian.

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        • Eh. Yes and no. The Sky is about Life. The Deep is about Death. The only thing tying them together is indeed the sword logic. Existing and the struggle to survive. The sky wishes to defy entropy and promote good. The deep revels in decay and nothingness. So I would disagree with "two sides of same coin". More like two coins, and one is gonna get thrown off the table.

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          • That was a straight-up essay title...

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            • As eloquently written as your post was.... ummm duh, it's a bungie game, they are ALL about this. Pathways into darkness, Marathon, Myth, Halo... it's a different telling of the same story. It's an awesome story, and I love all the games listed. But you can literally switch out names and have the same game.

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              • I like to the 'two sides of the same coin' idea. I wouldn't be surprised if the sky and the deep were just the same thing, messing with the various life forms in the universe. At least, they must both share allies somewhere.

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              • I'm fighting for fashion. Gotta look fabulous when fighting the darkness.

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              • I agree to a point which is most likely why bungie had the hive in 2 of the 3 dlcs 3 of 4 if you count this April update But that's gone seeing as how we destroyed their God Now we have time warping robots, an entire army of planet smashers and space pirate ninjas that are out to reclaim our God

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                • Very detailed, but when a story is so shallow that Ghosts say they don't know much about the Traveler.....i really am not going to invest a lot of my time in figuring it out either.

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                • The traveler is not a god maker we are part of him, the ghost came from the traveler so basically we are getting revive by the light of the traveler everytime we die. Oryx in the other hand if he die he is not going to get revive by the worm gods, same with the traveler, if he dies i dont think nobody will revive him. I see the traveler at oryx level, the only ones in my opinion that can create gods are the worm gods.

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                  • Edited by SoloXYZed: 6/8/2016 2:41:19 PM
                    Ya, Destiny truly does have a brilliant story behind it but it's so behind it that hardly anyone knows about it, even if someone cares enough to look for it it's such an unorganized mess that very few will go through it all, if it stays the way it is it's only going to get messier and that makes it harder for players to get into and stay interested in it. They need to separate the grimoire into 2 sides Light and Dark and they need to have links on each grimoire card that you can click that will take you to other grimoire cards that relate directly to what you were reading previously if they are going to do the grimoire card stuff for the next 8 years.

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                  • Nice theory, well written. I wish Destiny was one percent as interesting story wise. They screwed up the story from the get go, it doesn't matter if you have a good story, if you are unable to tell it with the medium you are using. The music in Destiny vanilla was the story. The words meant nothing, one of most painful script I've had to listen to in a VG, very unlike the Bungie of old. Lost interest in the story long ago. I shoot stuff in this game, and it feels awesome. The art is beautiful, much more descriptive than the words. Occasionally have a conversations with the vendors in the Tower, in my head. ;)

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                    • I fought the lore and the lore won!

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                    • Wait wear is it said the original hive foe had powers over creation?

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                    • Bump me pussies. You wont

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                    • So what is the Hives motivation again and why do they need the traveler so badly? Wasn't the Traveler one of many of his kind? Also, I thought that Oryx has to kill in order to feed the wormgods. The Traveler is using us for sure, be he is not threatening us to kill or get killed.

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                      • While I must say this is a well written theory, for all the similarities you mentioned the differences are just as many. The worm gods sole desire is to feed off the death caused by their hosts, and the Hive's sole motivation is therefore to kill as many living beings as possible to feed their worms and maintain their immortality. For the traveller however those we kill are just a means to an end. We are eliminating it's enemies which are supposedly our enemies as well. Also where the theory really breaks down is where you mention the Hive being the main focus as they are now a threat that has been all but dealt with for the foreseeable future. We killed Crota, avenging those lost on the Moon and his father came to our solar system to avenge his son's death and we dispatched Oryx as well. Now we have killed the pretender to the throne who tried to fill the void. Next up we will be dealing with the Fallen, likely after they strike at the Last City, based on the artwork we have seen for the next expansion. We also know from events during the Taken King that the Cabal Emperor has been contacted and is likely on his way here, so the Cabal will be a major enemy in future content updates (probably Destiny 2). We also know that the Vex are still a threat that we will eventually return to, whatever the content that was initially the Vex Void Expansion will also likely be part of Destiny 2 and might finally pay off the storyline with the Stranger. Those are the updates rumoured to be in the works, so while right now 2 of the 3 existing raids are Hive related, it will likely be a while before they are a major focus in the story again. Still an interesting read nonetheless.

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                        • Nail on the head, you encapsulate the story pretty well. I can't wait to see the relationship between the Traveler and the Worm Gods (hopefully the Ahamkara, or at least maybe they're the physical manifestation of them) explained in depth...

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                        • Imagine if we could pick the other side of the coin. Then when playing crucible it would be guardians of light against guardians of the dark (or something like that). And when roaming patrol you can encounter opposing guardians and have skirmishes for glimmer. "Light" and "dark" exotics. A lot of cool ideas could spawn from this

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                        • Too long to make solid points. Lost interest.

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