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3/24/2016 5:33:50 PM
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So let me get this straight, you're bitching about switching weapons immediately, and you're answer is to allow the hunter to walk hang and ambush?
Yeah, I'm sure that'll never be exploited.
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Edited by YourVillain: 3/24/2016 5:42:51 PMActually no not bitching. Suggesting. I think something is wrong when a large percent of people pick the same load outs. Something is definitely out of whack. Most high level players I see playing hunter usually have quick draw and it follows a pretty predictable pattern. Sit back snipe, if you hit the body switch to primary, clean up. Or The sniper gets flanked. They whip out TLW (which usually has a slower equip time), proceed to engage without much disadvantage. That perk is one of the big reasons people are able to use their sniper as a primary. That's a kinda broken perk. Not to mention it doesn't even fit in the theme of blade dancer. So now that I've addressed that. How do you see hanging on a wall being exploited? I wasn't saying you sit on the wall and snipe, just hold in place. Edit: typo
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A large percentage of high level players use the same load of on most of the characters, not just blade dancer... It's bc there are more pve based perks, neutral perks that could go either way but aren't substantial in either way, and pvp based perks. There is 2 subclasses I see alternate setups, voidwalker (bc the sc is kinda trashy in pvp except the super) and defender (weapons vs blessings)
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[quote]I think something is wrong when a large percent of people pick the same load outs. [/quote] In one tight sentence you have summed up much of what's wrong with this game - the over-prevalent concept that just because a lot of people do something, it's wrong. Now the rest of your discussion is thoughtful, but I cannot abide the idea that just because something is good or fun it must be squashed.
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Edited by YourVillain: 3/25/2016 11:20:04 AMNope, I don't think it's wrong. I think it's an indication that something is awry. The perks should be as close to equally attractive as possible. When you play with one you should kind of feel like you are missing out on another useful perk. If you are going to make one clearly more useful there is really no reason to even offer the choice. It's like if I offered you the choice to eat A) bag of chips B) bird seed C) dog food All are edible but one is a clear choice to most people.
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Yes, that is a possibility, but not a foregone conclusion. That's the problem with a blanket statement. Unfortunately, that blanket statement and ones like it are why we have this nerf carnival we call Destiny.
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Yes, perhaps "wrong" is the wrong word to use. I do think lack of diversity in character builds MAY be an indication that perhaps one perk, loadout, weapon may be significantly advantageous over other options. My gripe with quick draw is two fold though. 1) It seems significantly better than the other options which may be why I hardly ever see people use the other options 2) guns are the primary means of winning in this game. When you allow one class to actually wield the gun better than other classes you are inherently making one class better. Especially in PvP. Yes, you can use and win with other classes but it's creating a difference in potentially between classes.
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I understand what you're saying, I do. The danger is when those statements aren't closely examined enough and taken at face value. This is what Bungie does with usage stats. They always come to the conclusion that usage beyond a point is bad, when that isn't true. They have made weapons that are by intention niche weapons, and when they don't get used, they "fix" the game until they are.
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Yea, I totally agree. Things should be taken by a case by case situation and you are entirely correct that bungie does not have a great record when it comes to implementation of balance. I look at their approach to random teams in PvP. If you are on a team that wins by too much, break it up. If you lose by too much break it up. Everything must be as close to 1 as possible. With that approach you never get better. If I just got pub stomped by a team I usually like to try again to see if I can figure out how to counter it(unless it's lag or something). If I want a new team, I know how to back out. I don't need bungie for that. Gun perks as a character abilities, I just disagree with. Every class has access to guns and one class shouldn't get an advantage in their use. That's just my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree but at least the discussion is out there. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a nerfer, Hunter is my primary class so I would definitely be working against my own interests if I didn't believe this would help the overall balance of the game.
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Nerfing or adjustments are reasonable topics of discussion if one takes the time to flesh out thoughts in a balanced way. I think you've tried to do that - certainly with some bias as a mainly one-character player, but you have put some thought into it. It's good discussion fodder for sure.
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Thanks. I've enjoyed your input. It's funny though, my "bias" has led me to suggest a removal of what is arguably the most popular perk on that sub class. I really try to keep an open mind.
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Let's see, Blade Dancer- agility, stealth, blink, all attributes an assassin would need. Ability to switch weapons quickly would be essential to an assassin for a quick kill. Sure wall cling could fit in too, but if you've ever played titanfall you'd understand how quickly (and well) many would exploit that ability.
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Edited by YourVillain: 3/24/2016 6:01:11 PMYea, I played Titan fall quite a bit. Had a pretty lengthy wall run and wall jumps. Not suggesting anything of that scope. I'm talking about just a simple wall hang. No movement, no shooting. Jump on the wall, target walks by, drop off said wall, close gap, back stab. And that's if the target somehow went the entire time without looking at the always available radar. I guess I can see your assassin reasoning but you have to admit, doesn't quick draw is to gunslinger as throwing knife is to blade dancer. Not saying they give the knife to blade dancer but that never made sense to me. Now regarding sniper. Are you saying you don't think there is a problem with somebody using a sniper like a primary only to pull out their actual primary without hesitation. Slow equip speed should be one of the disadvantages of having a weapon that can ohk across the stage. If the target closes the gap and you aren't ready you should be at a significant disadvantage.
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Throwing knife should be standard melee for hunter. Titan should have power, warlock distance, hunter range. Smoke should be an actual grenade. And really all hunter subclasses should have quick weapons ready. It's a perk that could make sense on any subclass. If you're looking for a perk that the gunslinger [b]should[/b] have it'd be better hip fire accuracy on all weapons. That's what gunslingers were known for is fast fire, not necessarily weapon switch. Plus speed is associated with lighting or arc in this case. Fire is more about power and explosions. Does it suck to run up and have someone switch to a sniper and quick scope? Yeah. But that's an issue with snipers in general. I've had all subclasses do that to me at some point.
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Edited by YourVillain: 3/24/2016 11:41:37 PMI know I already wrote a response but I think I figured out the best way to explain it. In my OPINION sub class perks should make your character's abilities better. Their jump their movement, supers, grenades etc Gun perks should make their gun better. Boost range, stability, weapon swap what have you. When you make one class clearly better with guns when guns are your primary means of getting kills, you throw PvP out of whack. In the trials videos ive watched by supposedly great players, you hardly see them use abilities beyond their jump, grenades and supers. Tying gun perks to a character class inherently makes one class better than the others. In this case blade dancers have the highest potential for sniping due to having automatic access to quick draw without getting RNGesus involved. I think that and it encourages special over primary is my problem.
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I see your point. I would love if the classes had more distinction. Unfortunately that is not destiny BC that would require a complete overhaul. I actually wrote a what if post a while back about it. Regarding the quick draw. Yea all class CAN get it if they get lucky and roll that on their gun. They would also have to roll the rest of the perks to make the gun competitive so quick scoping still wouldn't be as pervasive. As far as having it on all hunter classes. I'm still going to have to disagree. I don't support anything that encourages more special weapons as a primary usage. Those weapon should be for specific situations. As it is now and probably always has been primary is used like a side arm. Shouldn't be that way
