What about lag issues. You think top tier players deserve super laggy lobbies every time they log in? SBMM should take place after 12 people have been selected. Split the 12 players by skill... that way low skill players will still win many matches.... and top tier players can enjoy a good connection and less thorn etc. Low skill players should have an equal chance to contribute to a win... but I don't think they "deserve" to dominate matches until they start to understand the ins and outs of a pvp FPS. (This comes from a mid skill player)

Nope! Lag plagues us all and it's one of those evil things I wouldn't wish onto anyone.

So essentially you're just assuming all top players are just elitist assholes rather than just being good at the game. Why should they be punished simply because they're good? And if I were such an elitist, why would I always be fireteaming with two friends that have a 0.65 and 0.8 kdr? But now of course I can't because SBMM will throw them into a game full of players with my skill level causing them to struggle to even get 1 kill. So you're advocating for all good players to quit the game and for gaming friendships to be broken because your skill levels don't match up.... Honestly, you're the one who sounds like the asshole here, not the top tier players who just want to play and enjoy the game. So the only option for skilled players then based on what you've said is: - Quit - Intentionally lower your skill level - Only have skilled friends (which further perpetuates elitism) <s>Sounds great!</s>

Not exactly. I base every post on it's face value. Only after I perceive an unidentifiable/unsupported bias do I look deeper into the person making the post such as examining their Crucible stats... I even look at the substance of their recent posts in order to glean a deeper understanding of their point-of-view. What I have found is a common correlation between this bias against SBMM coming from someone who is within the top 10% of players (often in the top 3% being the predominant finding). So, to illustrate, I'll break down how I've analyzed your post.... Your comment: "So essentially you're just assuming all top players are just elitist assholes rather than just being good at the game." As I've explained my method and the aforementioned correlation, I do take care to examine deeper and frankly, I wouldn't have to if people took care to support their position as I have done with references (which I often provide links to in order for individuals to discern their own analysis). Your comment: "Why should they be punished simply because they're good?" You understand that many including myself do not believe that "good" players are being "punished" because they now have to play with others of similar skill levels right? For example, SBMM makes my matches pretty darn challenging... Often a win or loss could go to either team and both sides are usually within a kill or two at the final score. I think this is pretty darn fair and rightfully challenging. I mean, I think twice now before punching the res button because I realize in the end that those 50 points could make a difference in victory or defeat. I'm not nearly as reckless in my challenges when I'm hurt etc.... I don't quit out of games anymore because I know that SBMM will accept my newly lowered stats and match me up again with a fair fighting chance. Now, I actually care about PVP because SBMM encourages me to try. I've seen steady improvement in my K/D since SBMM... Judge it for yourself: http://destinytracker.com/destiny/overview?v=competition&utm_expid=74231850-0.fbbiATrXQAiydQFzK7FNgA.1&console=ps&gamertag=Booger-Lover&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fdestinytracker.com%2F Your comment: "And if I were such an elitist, why would I always be fireteaming with two friends that have a 0.65 and 0.8 kdr?" Just because you play with your friends that happen to be of low skill does not mean that you are not an elitist... At this point you haven't given me any reason to suspect that you might be one.... Your comment: "But now of course I can't because SBMM will throw them into a game full of players with my skill level causing them to struggle to even get 1 kill." If you read my posts within this topic, you'll see that I often sympathize and offer potential solutions to this unfortunate occurrence. However, there are downsides... As I've mentioned, if you value having an enjoyable experience with your friends more than your K/D then you'll have to temper your killing sprees and even lose... essentially nerfing yourself and thereby your K/D. Now, I'm not advocating this position and I know it is nowhere close to a good answer but again, if you had to choose (which the current SBMM does make you) between friends or K/D, then clearly there is an alternative solution.... Your comment: "So you're advocating for all good players to quit the game and for gaming friendships to be broken because your skill levels don't match up...." I'm advocating that players who are absolutely having a miserable time and complain about leaving the game that they should "rip off the bandaid" and leave rather than continue to be frustrated. People that are miserable and spread their misery are no fun to be around in any community... Your comment: "Honestly, you're the one who sounds like the asshole here, not the top tier players who just want to play and enjoy the game." I think this is a fair critique, and I perhaps deserve that. However, just as I admit to being somewhat intolerant of late, an equally observant critique would be that I'm also receiving/responding to a similar level of intolerance. However, I'll double my efforts to endeavor staying on the high road. I subscribe to the adage that "two wrongs don't make a right" and all. Your comment: "So the only option for skilled players then based on what you've said is: - Quit - Intentionally lower your skill level - Only have skilled friends (which further perpetuates elitism)" You missed a couple of other options I've suggested: -Accept a fair match against similar skilled players which SBMM attempts to resolve -See the bigger picture of how PVP without SBMM adversely affects the majority of players vice the elite -Simply deal with the situation. I didn't come here complaining about getting stomped-on in the CBMM days. I just suffered in silence. Take a note from my example. I'll give you a recent example (Source: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/192373140): From bungie, "We've taken additional steps to increase the emphasis on connection quality. Skill ratings will be less a factor in finding you a match. Lag will be even further diminished. Enjoying a game with your friends who are more/less skilled than you are will be easier, but your opponents will be more random, so you will stand a better chance of getting your ass kicked - or vice versa. There is still some form of protection to insulate the casual players among us from the most hardcore, but those considerations will have much less impact on the technical quality of the matchup." You see, this is Bungie's attempt to find a more balanced approach or middle ground solution between CBMM and SBMM.... In theory this should improve your experience along with many others who share similar frustrations. I hope this is getting us "all" closer to a better result. I accept the fact that there is more likelihood of me facing less fair match-ups with these changes and I'm okay with that... If I don't like it, I'll just play less... It's all good man! I DO value the importance of your point-of-view but I don't agree with those who proclaim that SBMM is without good merit. Instead, I believe a better solution resides somewhere more towards the middle... At this point, I don't feel that you are an elitist. I sense your frustration and I don't think you've been unfair in your comments. I think we can consider this -MYTH BUSTED- :)

I've been reading through your arguments and find that you condemn top players. Also you argue that a guy doesn't see reason or is objective so you mute him and say lol troll. Dude while I agree some of their arguments are very uneducated when you attack them and belittle them for being either good at the game or not very smart you give your argument zero credibility. Personally I don't like SBMM I would prefer a ranked unranked system. But it is what it is. Also it's a podcast not Pod Cast for clarification.

When the top 20% of players leave, the lower tiers rise up. If any of those top players ever return they will curb stomp your little happy friends holding hands just as bad as before. The reason bottom players are so far down the totem is because They start a match, and keep doing the same losing strategy over, and over expecting the result to change. Don't melee a Sunsinger, don't dance with the blade dancer, and avoid the titan fearlessly sprinting towards your entire team holding hands in Bravo.

Wow, how on earth did the very first Destiny players ever figure anything out. According to your logic they must be stuck in a perpetual state of noobness. No really, your logic is really amazing. Hey everybody! According to this genius here, if you ever wanted to learn how to box the best way is to repeatedly get knocked the blam out by a heavyweight champion. Man, I hope they don't let this guy drive or cut his own food.

Clearly you've never seen, or heard another human being. Quite a few of them are... Underwhelming. Congratulations on being one of them. Based on your response I'm not entirely certain you can read at an "average" level. Let me try and reiterate that for you with smaller, less sophisticated, and berating language. Learning to box from the best IS the best way to learn how to box. This game is filled with terrible PVP players they run straight at each-other and shoot straight into the air and punching wildly. They will never learn to play this game like that. If you don't believe me start a new account and go straight into the crucible.

I'm sure that's exactly why CoD removed SBMM in less than 24 hours. Oh wait...

CoD removed it because they were catering to the preservation of a competitive community; this was their goal all along... Bungie has made several statements to the fact that they aren't interested in making a competitive CoD or Halo experience.... Maybe that'll come later, but, they've stated that isn't their intentions/priority at the moment. In that Pod Cast I referenced above, if you listen to it you'll hear Leif Johansen (Destiny Lead PVP Designer) reference to several of these type of conversations that he had with TripleWreck and provide the feedback I'm paraphrasing to you here.

Regardless of level of skill, sbmm needs to go. I am of low skill level pvp and am consistently finding myself matched with people in different countries and continents. The lag is unreal, people glitching, shots not registering. I Think Bungie needs to look at sbmm globally, if they understood for certain geographies it might be viable, but for others not, and adopted a different approach to it globally at least it might help fix the lag for those of us outside of North America.

Yes, But...what if lag was remedied? You see, I'm not sure if you're against the merits of SBMM or just merely against lag...? If SBMM existed and the lag that ushered in as a result of the changes were mitigated back to pre-CBMM lag or better would you be against it? Is your complaint against lag which plagues us all or the ideas/concepts/solutions that SBMM offers to attempt a fair match against players? Try to see them separately and let me know how you feel about SBMM.

Destiny isn't balanced. It doesn't have a dedicated ranked playlist. It doesn't have dedicated servers. It doesn't have a stable meta. It lags. All of these are reasons why SBMM has absolutely no business of being in this game. It's a fundamental misunderstanding from the Crucible team, if they think that their game even qualifies for a SBMM. But I stopped caring long ago. I switched to Halo 5 arena. With a ladder system, dedicated servers, a stable meta, no lag and a balanced environment.

lol halo 3 and others of them has p2p and are competitive Bungie broke p2p for the new mm system But Destinys netcode isn't good compare to other p2p games