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Edited by BoogerLover:
2/11/2016 7:25:04 AM
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Mystin,
First, I'm sorry you've been having a rough time in PVP with regards to SBMM.... It is so hard for me to read your post and not feel a wee bit contemptuous towards your plight. Stay with me though, because I'm going to stay on the high road with you while I attempt to offer a different view by way of a counter-point to your situation.
I've attempted to see your situation not through my eyes but rather truly understand through your perspective. However, let us consider all those potential players that you would be matched against if SBMM was turned off. I'll use myself for example...
I'm speaking as someone who is in the top 53% in terms of K/D with an overall score of 0.97. So mathematically, my PVP skill is representative to roughly half of the total community (as opposed to your being within the super minority of 1%).
1. Regarding your situation w/SBMM and attempting to casually PVP with your girlfriend. It appears that you are failing to have fun due to your OP competitive nature. For example, I recently did the "Refer-a-Friend" thing and brought my very young nephew into Destiny. As we were leveling up his shiny new Titan, we went into the Crucible to knock out a few bounties... At first we got killed.... a lot..... But thank goodness for SBMM because eventually (after Shaxx breaking up a lot of teams) we were able to get enough kills to satisfy the bounties we were after. I had a great time because the whole point was to play with my nephew and eventually we could win a few. As a side note, SBMM prevented me from effectively "carrying" which many of us find annoying (when 1 or 2 players can carry an entire fire team and almost single-handedly wipe out the opposing team).
2. The fact that you felt the need to "create" a new account just to test out the "new changes," indicates to me that you don't want that precious K/D of yours to suffer while you "casual" it up and "have fun." Or, you miss a good ole Pub Stomp that SBMM has been denying you... Either way, looking at this in the most favorable light, I'm still coming up with the perspective that you just can't help yourself and continue to fail at the "fun" part. In other words, nobody but an uber OP competitive try hard would even consider what you did;"create a new account just to test out the new changes." Listen Bro, if you want to have fun, just let it go man.... Just take an "I don't care about my K/D (winning)" attitude and go uber casual mode. If you're not truly afflicted and can shake this OP competitive condition, you'll actually have fun.... :D
3. By the way you started this conversation, I infer that your K/D is important to you and in fact, a point of pride. Further, as you roll out your "competitive" resume (12 years worth apparently) in your appeal for SBMM to "be an optional experience," I couldn't help but get the notion that you simply don't know how to be non-competitive. I think a more honest way to define your position is that you want to win without having to try "sooooo hard." Truthfully, if you spend the better part of a weekend nerfing your K/D into oblivion than you'll start being matched against lesser skilled opponents like me. But the jeopardy there is that as soon as you start casually stomping us into the ground you'll be back to square one.
4. SBMM is a great concept for the majority of players out there. Is it flawed, yes. The lag is a big problem. However, with the potential of the new "damage referee" coupled with SBMM has potential to move us closer to that sweet spot that benefits the community (writ large vice you 1 percenters).
I know this isn't what you probably wanted to hear but if you could afford to look beyond your 1% and consider Bungie's attempt to accommodate the greater majority you could be more understanding of their intentions with SBMM. If you really care about creating a fun PVP experience with your girlfriend and value that over your K/D, you'll find the solution was in front of you this whole time. :D
Just have fun like I did playing with my nephew! After all, isn't that the whole point?
English
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Just want to state your second section. I'm almost at the point of making a new account as well. And it's not because i care about my kd or because i want to stomp people. I tried having fun and chill games e.g. by using khvostov or by playing with dump methods. But it only works that much if you're the only one out of 12 players going full tryhard. Not to mention 3v3s. I agree with you, that everyone "complaining" about SBMM should try to put their sweaty pants off and just have fun. But i think there could be a much better, overall improvement to the crucible in terms of having fun WITHOUT reducing anyones pvp experience eg by having both, CBMM and SBMM playlists.
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Yeah, I wish you the best of luck in your new account but sooner rather than later, your skill will put you into lobbies commensurate with your true skill rather than hiding it behind a newly made character. It's like a Black Belt martial artist who shows up at a new school posing as a White Belt... Sure it may seem like fun to "you" (nobody else will be impressed) but soon, everybody will know. SBMM, will know.
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Thats true. I wouldn't have much of making a new account if i'd play at the same skill level as before. Also i don't think i'm gonna do it. I could only imagine to play on that account whenever i'm tired of sweaty games and want to do whatever seems fun to me but isn't fun trying in sweaty games. And by fun i don't mean getting a KD >= 1.0. OK i get that it's hard to argue about what's fun / how to have fun ;-) At the end of the day i don't want to have fun to the costs of others. But i think with a change in terms of matchmaking / playlists there could be an improvement that delivers this. However that change looks like. I don't say it's that bad right now, because i'm probably part of a minority. Hope you get my point, i'm not a native speaker.
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I understand you perfectly, and I think your english is superb. Thank you for your reply! You give me hope that people can be rationale and also considerate of others. Have a great day!
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/12/2016 9:21:09 AMMystin, Just keeping up with your latest entry in your edit: "The core argument that I, along with many others are making is how Bungie is forcing SBMM across nearly every playlist. Revert back to having a casual connection-based group of playlists, and in addition create a ranked SBMM playlist or "league" where people can choose to participate in." M8, have you considered that 1-10% of the PVP community find CBMM to be casual, whilst 90-99% find it to be the very thing you're moaning about with SBMM? How can you in good conscience, propose a change that would adversely affect the majority? You're ability to have a good experience should not come at the expense of someone else's. If you top tiered people bump up against one another as with SBMM how can you consider that a bad thing unless you desire to beat up on lesser skilled players? When you wrote: "I stated multiple times in my post that I am actually in favor of SBMM, but it must be contained to specific playlists, like Trials or Iron Banner." Oh my, how gracious of you to propose limited SBMM in part time events such as Trials or Iron Banner. I feel so privileged that someone in the elite tier of PVP (1%) would allow me a chance at a fair match up once a week or once a month; how generous of you.... Can you not see how pompously arrogant and elitist this might come off?
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Edited by Erijian: 2/12/2016 4:13:17 AMIt's not easy for people to have fun while losing; it goes against the competitive nature (And the satisfaction associated with winning) humans have. You also need to understand the perspective from the view of those who want to play with their higher skilled friends and can't because of SBMM instead of just from the higher skilled player's perspective. When you think of all of the things effected by SBMM, you'd understand that it causes more harm than it does good.
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I can follow you up until this bit: "When you think of all of the things effected by SBMM, you'd understand that it causes more harm than it does good." I would offer for your consideration that within just this very topic, right here in this forum, that greater than half of the responses favor SBMM. Not saying that SBMM is perfect but many suggest that the days of SBMM is better than the days before....
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Edited by Erijian: 2/12/2016 3:59:15 PMNobody really supports it other than a vocal minority really. If you've kept up on polls regarding SBMM and CBMM, you'd see that players strongly prefer CBMM for the quality of matches over SBMM's more balanced lobbies. For a long time it's been suggested that Bungie adds in ranked playlists and turns on SBMM in those (If you WANT to sweat), and then keeps the normal Crucible playlists as CBMM for more relaxed lobbies. [spoiler]This is a more recent poll, and look how against SBMM players are. https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/45dtld/should_bungie_do_what_treyarch_did_and_turn_off/[/spoiler]
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/12/2016 9:52:48 PMReally? Well here is a petition to remove SBMM. Last time I checked, it has a whopping total of 6 supporters. Hurry, run and sign it; join the masses. LOL!!! http://www.thepetitionsite.com/880/916/414/petition-to-remove-skill-based-matchmaking-in-destiny/#sign
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Lol. At this point I just believe you're being sarcastic about all of this. If you're actually serious, then I'm concerned for your mental state.
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/13/2016 8:15:11 AMC'mon, YOu've got to admit, that was kinda funny? No? Did you check out that petition? LoL... Yes, it's true, I'm having a bit of fun with you but how many times can we cover the same ground here....? Everybody that hates SBMM will find an angle to say why it should be removed, while everybody that likes it will do the same. At the end of the day all we can really rely upon in that Bungie is a company that like many companies wants to earn our business. So as with any company that enjoys success they will attempt to offer a product that sells. If this is accurate then Bungie will attempt to make "everybody" happy. However, it's impossible to make "everybody" happy so most likely their approach will be based on what their data suggests would at least yield them an 80% solution in order to satisfy the overwhelming majority. We can look at the opinions here, research the polls you mentioned, laugh at that silly petition that now has 8 supporters (LOL) until we're all sick of it. In the end, Bungie is going to try to make money. Many argue that they're doing it wrong. According to the decline mentioned in the Activision Earnings Report, maybe they are. Maybe their recent change in leadership is an indication of Bungie trying to get it right... Maybe the recent Bungie Update (even though we're not calling it that anymore) "finally" revealed their plans for content because they know that gamers are getting tired of being left in the dark and are starting to leave this game. Bungie even briefly mentioned the very thing we've been discussing here: "Matchmaking itself is governed by some specific design goals: Ensuring you get into a match in a timely fashion, looking for a good connection, creating relatively balanced teams so players don’t get stomped continually." I can see, that Bungie is still committed to fair match ups, and I like that. It'll be a hard sell to convince me that we should remove SBMM. I mean it would be a hard sell to anyone who is objectively looking at this beyond themselves. Here, let's make it less personal, let's change the subject. Taxes: Scenario - The government wants to raise taxes as that money is needed to address the rising costs of healthcare, public services (like schools, construction etc) and inflation. The lower income demographic loves this idea as the tax increase would favor them most. The middle income demographic isn't trilled about it but can see "some" benefits. The upper income (rich people) absolutely hate the idea as it will tax them most and they don't care about healthcare, public services and inflation because they can afford premium services without any help from the government. However, the government must make this decision in order to provide care and relief to the greater good/majority of the people... Thusly, taxes are raised and to the betterment of the whole rather than the elite. Does this scenario sound similar to our debate here... Can you see the parallels?
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I fully agree with OP. Think about this you PVE gods that love the matchmaking... I am a 1.3k/d player.... barely above average... and trials is the easiest gamemode for me. Even your average 7-win trials game is easier then a control match. Someone said this below as well... imagine if all you wanted to do was mess around on patrol and everytime you turned on your system you were forced to do the hardmode oryx battle.
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You're not seeing the point. Without SBMM, a scrub like me is always patrolling on hard mode oryx. I don't even enter the game mode because I keep getting curb stomped. But if I'm a video game glutton for punishment, I can spend a year frustrated and getting worked to get better, right? If your skill level is such that hard mode oryx patrol is average gameplay for you, then patrol should be scaled for you or you'd never play it. Unless you just love God mode crushing dregs and vandals. I think that's probably more the case.
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Edited by Kornby: 2/12/2016 6:50:35 PMI had a 0.7 k/d for my first 4-5k kills.... then I figured some things out
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Well that settles it. Good enough for the few, good enough for everybody. I'm sold.
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Here is the difference. "The few" have bought this game for pvp alone.... and "the few" are going to keep playing the crucible when everyone else is long gone. I am sure you bought this game for the raids... etc. You only play PVP because they catered it to you.
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And to combat casuals like me, they need to stop scaling PvE to the guardian level. The only way I can learn the game mode is hard mode oryx patrols and vanilla story mode. It needs to be a massive grind just to get through the story. That's the best way to learn. I'd agree with you about the PvP being a portion of the game that didn't factor into my purchase. But the fact is that I bought this game for all game modes and until recently I didn't enjoy PvP because I didn't have the time to "git gud". Now I'm loving PvP and with SBMM, the PvP crowd can become even bigger with casual scrubs who can now enjoy it. SBMM for life!!!!
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Haha.... I am just showing the other side of the coin. I fully understand why there is sbmm. But they are going to drive out the crowd that has been doing it since day 1. If you think this is fair.... then you need to open your eyes. It isn't fair for me how it is now.... and it wouldn't be fair for you to get rid of it.
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Your perspectives are absolutely correct. However, it has been unfair for be since the beginning. At least with SBMM, we both suffer through the exact same experience, just at different skill and performance levels.
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What is the benefit to doing well in the crucible? Trials has bad rewards and the better I do the worse I will be. But yeah.... someone has to be unhappy so the catered to the larger population.... but killed their veteran population... whatever
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I look at it that the better I get, the more challenging the mode becomes. It's one of the gripes about the raids. They become too easy. The challenge mode was an attempt (albeit a poor one) to keep the raid challenging. We can climb the PvP ladder...together. Oh wait, it will take me decades to get to your level and you will have thrown in the towel by then due to crappy connections in SBMM. WE're both screwed
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Surely there is some middle ground, like an opt in and out of SBMM, that way everyone gets the dose they want when they want it
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/12/2016 6:53:00 AMLoL, Yes.... There is a serious disconnect here. My friend who is a streamer and was world ranked in Trials last year recently came back to Destiny and hopped on his girlfriend's account. He absolutely could not believe the Lobby... Later, he was like Booger, damn Bro, all these times when you were in my lobby complaining about "dude, I'm sorry I can't get a kill, I usually do much better when I'm by myself...." "I see what you mean now....." He described his experience on his girlfriends account as like going up against AI opponents. LoL! I've said it many times here, SBMM is great for so many!
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Dude I get your point. But the people who are the top 10% got there by practicing. Why should you get treated the same as them? Why shouldn't they pub stomp teams? Why should you succeed at something you are admittedly not very good at. Sorry but I grew up with the understanding that I had to work for my medals... but you can have your participation rewards.
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Wow!!!! Everybody CHECK OUT THIS POST!!! Kornby, This attitude is really disappointing and may be a large contributor of the toxicity here. I'm sorry Bro, but just because somebody treated you in such a way doesn't give you licensure to treat others poorly; you're just perpetuating. That's like, your dad abused you when you were little and now you think it's fine to abuse your kids.... -Break The Cycle of Abuse Man!!!!-
