Please forgive my lack of clarity, my pretense may have overlooked what I believed as a "common familiarity" within PVP. 1. The fact that Shaxx needed to break up a lot of teams shows the failure of SBMM. If SBMM were successful the skill gap would not be as wide. Response: SBMM factors in many things. Among them, it had factored in my stats and put players into the lobby that my poor nephew was under-skilled to challenge. As I was happy to try to offer coaching tips for the sake of his experience rather than try to carry the day, we lost.... a lot.... Over the losses my stats would accordingly be lowered and I found us being placed within commensurately lower skilled lobbies. Does this make sense? You see SBMM does not capture player stats across one snapshot but rather a floating calculation based upon ever-changing player stats. 2. Now, wrt your second point my response to OP was contextually based to the sum of his position; "I queued up with her for the first 10-15 games of my new Titan before my K/D started increasing, and we were being matched with players at her skill level." You see, in my understanding, the OP made mention of the new account to draw the reader into the understanding that on a new account (regardless of his intent of making it as it really wasn't his point) and over a relatively small amount of matches his raw skill was immediately recognized by the SBMM system and quickly put them into lobbies that outclassed his girlfriends skills. Again, his point being that focused on the SBMM system. 3. Hopefully you are able to glean a truer understanding of my meaning. I'm not suggesting that the OP should preform to a lower skill level. I'm merely explaining an opposing viewpoint of how SBMM benefits a greater majority of players than his 1%. Additionally, his intentions were to a) have fun whilst playing w/his girlfriend and not adversely affect her experience given that SBMM would populate the lobby with a mix of high skilled players given his stats he clearly illustrates this is not possible. b) his suggestion is that "Skill-Based Matchmaking across most/all playlists needs to go. Period.," is predicated to the reader based on these experiences and I have merely offered a viewpoint of others. c) I have given an "example" of how in a similar situation (with my nephew) my experience varied. I honestly can't see where my words would have deservedly incited such an emotional reaction as to warrant your personal attacks. I have tried to be fair and objective and I can see that there are very good points on both sides of the OP from other posts. Your emotionally charged reply seems to resonate from something more than my mere post, I hope your venting upon me has relieved some of this frustration if only to offer you some small measure of comfort however fleeting. 4. In consideration to your point here, I still stand behind my fourth point, "SBMM is a great concept for the majority of players out there. Is it flawed, yes. The lag is a big problem. However, with the potential of the new "damage referee" coupled with SBMM has potential to move us closer to that sweet spot that benefits the community." For someone admonishing me of proposing to speak in absolutes (in your interpretation of my words)... Aren't you doing likewise in your last comment? "But those who agree that SBMM belongs in Destiny are 100% wrong when they say it benefits the community and the game." I hope you're feeling better soon.

O dear. Well I am not sure whether or not I was clear enough explaining my position about your points. Let me clarify: 1). I know how SBMM works...and that is why I have several problems with your point in your initial post. It doesn't hold and it contradicts itself. * SBMM did what it was designed to do. It put you in a playlist matched at your skill level. Hence why your nephew had trouble. Now elevate this from the personal to the experience of the wider community and realize that this is what average existing players face when matched up with better performing friends on a structural basis. * You would not have needed to carry the team. You would have merely needed to play your part. Apparently the inclusion of one single under performing player (your nephew) was such an incredible impact that nobody in your group could make up for it and that caused such a wide gap that the teams were broken up. This is a gap of thousands of points. A gap that is not explained by the inclusion of your nephew alone over so many games (you mentioned a lot of games needed to be broken up). This means the teams were not matched to begin with and SBMM failed. * SBMM does no "kick in" after a certain point. SBMM is based on your existing profile form the moment you set foot in the crucible. SBMM was adjusted during game play. And that means you have been dying (not merely losing matches) and going under your average k/d....structurally. This meant that either you were out skilled (which again means that SBMM failed) or you were intentionally under performing (which means you negatively impacted your team). You now say you didn't play your part...which means you actively created a serious problem for the players in your team who, as far as we know, were not doing Shaxx bounties? Or negatively impacted by this? And getting actively killed because they were short not 1 but 2 equally performing players. And just to make sure we understand each other: I don't mind you giving your nephew priority...but you had to actively ignore your entire team and negatively contribute to their position, for a lot of matches for your nephew to finally be able to play a match where he could perform. Again....think about this....and apply this to the wider community of mixed skill friend groups....and understand why this is problematic in more ways than one. 2). What OP describes is that he and his girlfriend made a serious test about it. A test which you questioned OP's motives. They played 10 to 15 matches together and then played solo. After which the skill disparity created a serious problem for playing together as a fire team. This problem is because of SBMM. This problem exists for the entire community of mixed skill friend groups. You are berating OP for being a naturally talented player and ascribe that to his lack of ability to have fun.. Instead of the most favorable light you put it in the most negative light from the start. But aside from that...you failed to actually address the issue of what this means for the wider community and realize that OP's situation goes beyond OP and goes for every single mixed skill friend group out there! Regardless of whether they are 1% top tier or mid range players or low range players. You played it to OP's personality instead of realizing the mechanic and result he was describing....which is indeed a direct result of SBMM. And since its implementation, for me, playing with friends I played with for months has stopped being a fun activity and became absolutely horrid. Your literal solution to this is that he (and therefor everybody who plays with less skilled friends) should be "uber casual" which effectively means they should simply adopt the play style of the least skilled player. Compare that to your own experience with your nephew and that would require them to get killed a lot and actively losing a lot of matches as a result. This is not fun. Not for the higher skilled players and not for the lower skilled players. Essentially it is an incredibly lazy and poorly thought through "solution" 3). Well you may have intended to try and explain that but none of your arguments actually did that. Instead you played on ad hominem arguments and berating OP for an assumed lack of being able to play casual. Which is why I said you came of like an asshole. If your intentions were to merely point out the supposed benefits to the majority... then stating exactly that would have sufficed. But more importantly these benefits are supposed. Because as it turns out the exact same problems occur across the board for all mixed skill groups. This is hardly benefiting the majority....but is actually working against the benefits of the majority. For one...it means nobody of a lower skill rank can become friends with a higher ranked PvP player an enjoy PvP activities together where they both can have fun. Because for a lower player getting killed every single time stops being fun after the novelty and excitement of playing with your uncle wears off quickly becomes a chore rather than fun. The view point of others, which you later mention in your post as being synonymous with the viewpoints of the majority (a bold statement at best), is frankly based on your personal experience on a one time play through with a young, still learning guardian, and that experience required you to actively forgo playing to your assigned skill level for a whole lot of matches. Again...speaking from the experience of your nephews position as an experienced adult...that grows old very quickly to have to wait and undergo loss after loss after loss while I get killed time and time and time again. I have to do this every week if I want to continue to play with friends...unless my friends structurally forgo playing to their skill level. In short...your argument fails to consider the wider implication of this mechanic for the community because you solely focused on OP being 1%. And in doing so you were not only less than fair and objective. You were condescending and lacing your argument with ad hominems....but in doing so you also dismissed the problem a lot of players in this community have and it is a very serious problem. When players no longer can enjoy a social game with their friends because of game mechanics that prevent that and sees long existing friend groups break up...that is a very serious issue that should not be glossed over or dismissed because of some irrational fear of an incredibly small group of players. 4). This does not address anything. You simply reiterate your position which has been proven to be flawed while ignoring the serious problems that actually threaten the community and the majority of players by ignoring facts...and even the implication of your own experience simply because you had fun that one time. It is Ostrich politics... The fact of the matter is that your position is simply not true. SBMM has failed in most PvP games and is not implemented in most of them. Those that did implement them faced a majority dissent from the community and/or had to withdraw the system because of the problems it created. If you have failed to notice. The crutch META is causing serious problems in the community. It stifles game play and game dynamics and load out diversity. This is a direct result of SBMM. Players will need to automatically use the crutch weapons in order to remain competitive...and the majority of people are competitive whether they are try-hard or casual. Nobody likes to die and nobody likes to lose....all the time. SBMM also directly creates the necessity to maintain top performance in each and every game. If you do not you directly disadvantage lesser skilled players yourself. And if you do then every game is a sweat match where you do not improve. A lack of improvement is detrimental to the community and the game. On top of that it creates big social problems for the many existing mixed skilled groups. A fact which you have been very busy dismissing as a problem that only exists for top tier players. But nope...it actually exists for every body in the community...and finding lazy solutions for that can not and do not work in a day to day reality. Those are not mere flaws...these are game and community breaking flaws. And these flaws have been the main cause of SBMM not being implemented in most PvP games. Hence the certainty in which I can state that SBMM does not benefit the majority of the community. It is grounded in actual experience over multiple platforms and based on actual data...not on "the one time I was playing with a friend and had fun regardless of dying a whole lot" and losing a whole lot. There is a difference....between factual and subjective arguments. And yours are conjecture and subjective disproved time and time again...stat a few exceptions. And those exceptions were specifically designed to cater to SBMM....Destiny is not such a game. It lacks the balance in weapons, classes and maps to be able to do this.

Dude, You are not having fun huh?! I think you're doing it wrong. I think you may be a little broken inside. I feel sorry for you right now because you're not enjoying the game. On the other hand, I'm having a blast. Sorry everyone isn't a "try hard" like you. I wish you could be on your own island with other's like you... Oh wait, SBMM.... LoL, please don't hurt yourself or break your gear... It's not worth it man... G'luck and all... :D

Well...I thought it was very clear I don't actually care what you think as it was pretty obvious how I evaluated you. And this post of yours kind of proves the validity of that evaluation as well as my judgement about the nature of your arguments. The fact of the matter is that you are motivated by fear for being challenged and for having to face better players and getting wrecked by the occasional better team. A fact you are trying to hide behind a supposed concern for the "majority of the community" but which is belied by you structurally failing to address, and even acknowledge, the actual harmful consequences of the very game mechanics you desperately need to protect you from an incredibly small amount in the total community and the condescending attitude with which you dismiss them. I don't much care. I just called you out on your bullshit.

You've addressed most op's points besides the one on how is girlfriend feels. He can't play pvp with her, the skill gap is too wide. The matchmaking system seems to find players based on the player with the highest skill level. Op would have to lose A LOT so he can match her skill level(hence making a new account). The problem with the system is that is discourages top players to play with people beneath them.

To be far though it's not like Lewis Hamilton's girlfriend could really race him in an F1 car, or Venus Williams enter a local tennis match with a cousin or something. At a certain level there's going to be a bit of a disconnect... I sure as -blam!- wouldn't want Agayev rocking up to my sparring matches.

Then is girlfriends to git gud.

This is awkward... As I have addressed this point, but alas, let's have another go shall we... As I've said, when I went into PVP with my nephew we lost like probably over 10 matches in a row until the SBMM starting matching us with guardians that had those rare/uncommon weapons. This whilst I was a level 319 Hunter with the best weapons in the game. You see, I didn't care. My nephew figured out all by himself that camping in a corner with a shotgun could net him a kill.... You should have heard the delight in his voice if he could get just one kill in an entire match of getting slaughtered, he was truly enjoying it. Eventually he would start getting more kills and when he finally broke 10 kills in a single match he was over the moon. You see, his PVP skills didn't drastically improve, rather, SBMM kicked-in and instead of filling the lobby with players of my meager skill I had appeared to have lowered myself to his level and thusly we found ourselves in a lobby more suitable for him. Now here's the important bit that you may have missed.... This experience was about "HIM," my nephew. Not me. I found my enjoyment through his experience and "together" we had a blast. IF a person of higher skill isn't willing to put someone else's experience at a higher value than their own.... well, you get the point. C'mon guys, how many of us accommodate our loved ones over our own personal desires? Last night I found myself curled up next to my wife watching a chick-flick that I absolutely didn't enjoy! Instead of me writing to the movie maker asking them to create a chick-flick that 1 percent of guys could equally enjoy I simply accommodated her. ;) Trust me, it's better this way.

Alright but in this situation neither party is having fun. Let's say the op is having fun competing with people of his own skill range. He wants to make things easier for his girlfriend because she feels the same way. Op can't magically turn down his stats to match hers without purposely losing a ton(not 10 matches but a lot). Let's say he does, then what? What if he wants to sweat again? He's stuck playing easy matches, he's going to have to work his way up again. We're not only talking about our own experiences(at least I try not to), we're also talking about what's best for the game(but that comes down to a matter of opinion and in that matter no one is right or wrong). Why not come up with a solution that's best for everyone instead of yourself(and others that agree with you). I personally think an easy solution would be to take a page out of Bungie's previous game, Halo Reach. That game allowed us to filter our searches, options included skill, good connection and language. If this were in the game, everyone wins(or at least should). It gives us something we don't have, a choice. You gotta understand where people are coming from when they say things whether their opinion lies in the minority or not. You should try to meet in the middle and come up with a solution that doesn't just appease you and whoever agrees with you but everyone if possible(and in destiny with these lovely developers that constantly change the game, it is possible). The game isn't stuck in one place, there is constant change and always room for improvement. I'm sure you'll be able to find a hole in my logic, you seem like the type of person that's good at that. I'm just here to try to improve the game I love in a way everyone will be happy with. Of course I hold my own opinions but I'm not going to tell people they are the end all be all. [spoiler]Im sorry if my thoughts are all over the place or Im talking in circles, Im not a great speaker/writer(pretty antisocial which makes things worse). Pardon the grammatical errors too, didn't really revise so probably messed up somewhere :D [/spoiler]

Ahhh, custom matches! Now on this we can find much agreement. However, for the purposes of the OP, his position was very succinctly laid out in this sentence: "Skill-Based Matchmaking across most/all playlists needs to go. Period." I was merely staying on topic and addressing his position. Now, with regards to your point, "You should try to meet in the middle and come up with a solution that doesn't just appease you and whoever agrees with you but everyone if possible." What a beautiful world that would be aye? If only it were possible to only find solutions that would make everyone happy.... But.... what if that were not possible? Many would argue that finding the best solution entails resolving a problem that would positively affect the most. For example, Merriam-Webster defines the word "triage" as "the assigning of priority order to projects on the basis of where funds and other resources can be best used, are most needed, or are most likely to achieve success." Perhaps you can see the parallel example of why I chose this word to address the contextual nature of the OP and your recent post. The word "triage" would not exist in a world where solutions could be found to make "everyone" happy. Your opinions are always valid to me btw.