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Edited by BoogerLover:
2/11/2016 7:25:04 AM
222
Mystin,
First, I'm sorry you've been having a rough time in PVP with regards to SBMM.... It is so hard for me to read your post and not feel a wee bit contemptuous towards your plight. Stay with me though, because I'm going to stay on the high road with you while I attempt to offer a different view by way of a counter-point to your situation.
I've attempted to see your situation not through my eyes but rather truly understand through your perspective. However, let us consider all those potential players that you would be matched against if SBMM was turned off. I'll use myself for example...
I'm speaking as someone who is in the top 53% in terms of K/D with an overall score of 0.97. So mathematically, my PVP skill is representative to roughly half of the total community (as opposed to your being within the super minority of 1%).
1. Regarding your situation w/SBMM and attempting to casually PVP with your girlfriend. It appears that you are failing to have fun due to your OP competitive nature. For example, I recently did the "Refer-a-Friend" thing and brought my very young nephew into Destiny. As we were leveling up his shiny new Titan, we went into the Crucible to knock out a few bounties... At first we got killed.... a lot..... But thank goodness for SBMM because eventually (after Shaxx breaking up a lot of teams) we were able to get enough kills to satisfy the bounties we were after. I had a great time because the whole point was to play with my nephew and eventually we could win a few. As a side note, SBMM prevented me from effectively "carrying" which many of us find annoying (when 1 or 2 players can carry an entire fire team and almost single-handedly wipe out the opposing team).
2. The fact that you felt the need to "create" a new account just to test out the "new changes," indicates to me that you don't want that precious K/D of yours to suffer while you "casual" it up and "have fun." Or, you miss a good ole Pub Stomp that SBMM has been denying you... Either way, looking at this in the most favorable light, I'm still coming up with the perspective that you just can't help yourself and continue to fail at the "fun" part. In other words, nobody but an uber OP competitive try hard would even consider what you did;"create a new account just to test out the new changes." Listen Bro, if you want to have fun, just let it go man.... Just take an "I don't care about my K/D (winning)" attitude and go uber casual mode. If you're not truly afflicted and can shake this OP competitive condition, you'll actually have fun.... :D
3. By the way you started this conversation, I infer that your K/D is important to you and in fact, a point of pride. Further, as you roll out your "competitive" resume (12 years worth apparently) in your appeal for SBMM to "be an optional experience," I couldn't help but get the notion that you simply don't know how to be non-competitive. I think a more honest way to define your position is that you want to win without having to try "sooooo hard." Truthfully, if you spend the better part of a weekend nerfing your K/D into oblivion than you'll start being matched against lesser skilled opponents like me. But the jeopardy there is that as soon as you start casually stomping us into the ground you'll be back to square one.
4. SBMM is a great concept for the majority of players out there. Is it flawed, yes. The lag is a big problem. However, with the potential of the new "damage referee" coupled with SBMM has potential to move us closer to that sweet spot that benefits the community (writ large vice you 1 percenters).
I know this isn't what you probably wanted to hear but if you could afford to look beyond your 1% and consider Bungie's attempt to accommodate the greater majority you could be more understanding of their intentions with SBMM. If you really care about creating a fun PVP experience with your girlfriend and value that over your K/D, you'll find the solution was in front of you this whole time. :D
Just have fun like I did playing with my nephew! After all, isn't that the whole point?
English
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/11/2016 5:21:29 PMUh, lol, keep reading my friend. I mean I've like posted at least over 10 different times here and don't just read my opinions, there are some great points in many posts here.
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Not worrying about his k/d and playing casually doesn't change how sbmm works. It will still match them against players far better than his lass or friends. No matter how you put it, Sbmm doesn't work for groups of varying skill level. It's not a great system, it never has been. The only people it benefits are people like us that aren't that good. We don't get matched up against people far better than us. If we group with people that are, we get matched up with them. Doesn't matter how casually he plays, he'll still have a higher skill level than most of the casual players which will still be no fun for his friends or girlfriend.
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Edited by The_D: 2/11/2016 5:27:48 PMYeah I agree. The counter point of view is a person who is salty because they get pub stomped when they aren't in a sbmm Playlist by a person who doesn't want a sbmm Playlist because he wants to enjoy time with his girlfriend. He can hold his own, but she can't in such a competitive Playlist. It's a very biased counterpoint. Asking someone to lower their k/d so they can manipulate the sbmm system? That's absurd. You think that'll make it fun? That's literally lying to the system just so he can play with his girlfriend. No one should have to do that in order to play with their friends.
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Yes, I know... errr.... we know.... LOL. I'm not suggesting it's the magic silver bullet answer but many would agree that it's better than zero allowance for skill matching. If you continue reading "all" the posts you'll see the debate develop...
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Right on point. I don't get this kd eliteism, some I knew created new characters just to refresh his stats, in the bid to attain a higher kd!!!? Madness! Have fun, play to enjoy it casually! Your kd will naturally balance out, rather than holding on to this God like kd! It's absurd! If kd really bothers one and it's the mean all be all all image you love to basket in, then suffer the balanced match making system and feel the wrath of people just like you. Now I also would like to say, it's a real shame they didn't plan to implement some sort of ranked system and casual player match modes as this would relieve the situation of many fake kd imposters and genuwin for the title and win posers.
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The problem is if you aren't playing ultra competitive at that level then you will be massacred. You must use the top meta guns or you will be destroyed. There is no fun in that no matter how casually you play. And it has nothing to do with playing casually when you're trying to play with your lower skilled friends. The fact is, if they join you they will be absolutely wrecked. My friends who easily score a 1 to 1.5 kdr when soloing average less than a 0.4 when playing with me. Sometimes they can't even get a single kill in the game. How exactly is that fun? I thought this was suppose to be a social game where you can play with your friends. But it's not because SBMM forces you to only play with equally skilled players, so you might as well just remove all of your lower skilled PvP friends from your friends list as they will not want to fireteam with you and get slaughtered. That makes the game an anti-social game. You literally cannot understand how bad it is unless you're at this level of skill. You're forced to pick a meta weapon and doomed to playing solo unless you're lucky enough to have equally skilled friends. Either that or you have to intentionally reduce your skill level so that you can play a few games with them until it throws you back into the higher tiers again. That's just absolute nonsense. Even CoD removed SBMM a day after they tried implementing it because the community said it was bad for the game in overwhelming numbers. SBMM is bad period.
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You create a meta You abuse the meta You complain when you must use the meta you created to continue to play other try hards using the same meta Hmmm...
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I didn't create the meta. Nor do I abuse it. I would much rather use the pulse rifles I've always loved using since vanilla, but meta weapons ruin that (besides when pulse rifles were meta). The only meta weapon I truly abused was Suros.
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I'm not saying "you" literally, sheeeeesh
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Agreed 👍
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Very well thought out and written. I could not have put it better myself. and I am a very old gamer this kid has nothing on me in time served Gaming. (I was Gaming back in the 70's when Gaming was with Dice, Paper, pencils, and Books and Yes I am that old.) A true 1%'er is a Gamer that takes the inexperienced and less skilled players and teaches them the mechanics of the game and then shepherds them till they are better, with the understanding that not everyone will be as good or skilled as yourself. #Ancient Gamer
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My respect and admiration for your timeless perspective. This speaks to your character which reaches beyond gaming. Thank you!
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[quote]A true 1%'er is a Gamer that takes the inexperienced and less skilled players and teaches them the mechanics of the game and then shepherds them till they are better, with the understanding that not everyone will be as good or skilled as yourself. [/quote] Do you not understand that this is no longer possible to even do with SBMM? If I take a new low skilled player into the Crucible with me to attempt to mentor them, they will be absolutely slaughtered and likely barely get 1 kill. This isn't because of them being bad or something like that. It's because the matchmaking is throwing them into games with the top tier players just because they're in my fireteam. So your only option is to not play with them at all because they'll get nowhere skill-wise if everyone they see insta kills them before they can even sight in. Mentoring lower skilled players in the Crucible is dead because of SBMM.
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Agreed. I think "timeless gamer" is a little behind on the system they have in place that manipulates who you play with competitively.
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In response, No I am not behind on the system being used to matchmake players for matches. My point is it does not matter whether it is a CBMM or a SBMM being used a good top tier player will find away to shepherd and mentor lower tier and new player so they do not leave the game's community because the only thing that they experience is always getting killed and never getting a win in PvP as almost all of their opposition are top tier (i am including the top 15% here) if the game never keeps new players or grow lower skilled player the game withers and dies. I have been gaming a very long time and I can not tell you how many games (from tabletop to computer to console.) that I have seen just die from the simple fact that the best players kept kill off all the new blood entering the game.
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/11/2016 3:38:21 PMI disagree, I've only gotten better because I've been mentored by amazingly skilled players. But at the end of the day, I don't care about K/D. I think gamers who spend one eye towards gun handling in the crucible and the other eye on their KD/ELO stats are for the most part in agreement with you... Hmmmmm, now what do you think motivates them more....? Do they care more about the overall community or do they care about their own 1% elitism? I dunno man. Would I rather be in your fire team or would I rather be in ScottEggert's fire team... I'll take the shepard over the try hard. I'll take the coach over the top 1 percent'r. I'll take the mentor over the elitist. But hey, that's because I recognize the potential to serve the greater good over the rare few. That's because my enjoyment comes not at the expense of others in order to propel my selfish interests. Life lessons are being served here today and I greatly appreciate and admire the majority of those that have made a meaningful contribution (regardless of which side of this debate they stand on) here beginning with the OP.
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Edited by W33DEDPLAGUE: 2/11/2016 6:10:53 PMI've read enough of these replies to see that you just really don't understand what he is saying...how do you mentor someone when they spawn in and die repeatedly? playing with someone (and therefore a match full of) 1% players is not gonna help someone get better if they can't even have a fight with another player because of getting destroyed in every single encounter...this whole time you reference the k/d obsessed player but his whole point is that he can't play with his gf or friends...he has not said that he doesn't like sbmm because its harder to raise or maintain his k/d, he doesn't like it because his friends can't "relax and enjoy it" when they play with him...the two of you are actually agreeing this whole time...you tell him to just have fun and that is exactly what he is trying to do lol
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I know it seems like I don't get it but I've addressed this in at least two different posts within this topic. TLDR, I agree, that when you have two very opposite spectrums of skill within a fire team this will create an unforgiving environment for the lower skilled and thereby negate any chance of coaching, learning etc.... --OKAY, now for the record.... I do understand ^^^^ Now, like I've said before, it sucks for this particular situation and there is no answer. But before we say, "aha! Let's kill SBMM!" I argue that the benefits of SBMM outweigh even these situations. I've even gone on to say I'd gladly trade SBMM for Custom matches... In custom matches I can call the shots and create a learning environment. However, if the debate is SBMM vs. CBMM then bring on the SBMM baby!!!
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It sounds like you're making a lot of assumptions about me. I really don't care about my KDR or ELO. It's bragging rights and all that, but in the ends it doesn't really matter. I do like winning though, but I'm no tryhard. Which is exactly part of the issue. SBMM makes you play like a tryhard if you want to win. It's unenjoyable and pushing a lot of players away from the game. And as I said, if I bring my friends who often score in the 1.0 to 1.5 kdr range and top their match boards when playing solo into my fireteam, they all of sudden can't even get above a 0.5 kdr and are almost always on the bottom of the match board. I've seen them literally go a whole match without a single kill because they're thrown into a significantly higher skill bracket when they play with me where they literally don't stand a chance. SBMM does truly make it impossible for high skill players to mentor low skill players.
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Edited by BoogerLover: 2/11/2016 4:14:19 PMYou know, I've surveyed quite a few of these posts as I'm sure many here have done as well.... So, everyone please chime in if you agree or disagree if the following theme sounds familiar: An elite/try hard personality drops a forum post explaining in some fashion how SBMM sucks and other elitist/try hards agree with him. I know there are exceptions to every situation but PLEASE show me some posts where somebody who has been playing this game for longer than a minute and isn't an elitist/try hard is against SBMM. You know SBMM was borne out of the abuses that ScottEggert spoke of. SBMM isn't perfect but currently it's the only thing we have that attempts to create a fair match up. I'll be the first to wave the flag of an option that does this better, however, going back to CBMM is not the answer. Bungie has demonstrated their commitment to improving this experience by "keeping" SBMM and adopting "damage referee" in order to overcome the lag/latency issues that arose because of SBMM. I don't know about you but I've watched every podcast, live stream and read every update and one key thing they do pay attention to is worldwide stats. They don't pay attention to the top players/streamers but worldwide stats. I'm not saying they get everything right but what do you think this game would look like if they only paid attention to the top players?
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Edited by W33DEDPLAGUE: 2/11/2016 6:15:24 PMit would probably be better honestly...the top players are the ones who have spent the most time and have the most experience in this game...its actually the casual players who have called for so many nerfs and changes that made the game worse...that's just my opinion and no, I'm not a top player
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I have to agree with Sixclicks I have a 1.17 KD but i have a friend who is in the top 1% of players and I hate playing pvp with him now because I get stomped in his skill bracket and we had been playing pvp together since the beta but we dont play pvp anymore because of SBMM
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Yes, I understand your point and know it to be quite accurate. It's unfortunate but for now SBMM appears to be a positive experience for those not in that 1% category to include their associates. On the flip side, SBMM is definitely having an adverse affect on the ease in which these 1% players could carry lower skilled players... I wonder how many feel about that turn of events.
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Edited by Sixclicks: 2/11/2016 4:27:23 PMYou're still not addressing the inability to play with my lower skilled friends part. We literally cannot play together anymore unless they willingly want to be slaughtered. And as I've said, I'm no elitist or tryhard. If I were then I would have way more Trials games and would never even consider playing with friends that have a 0.8 kdr. Especially since I've even taken then into Trials and IB with me. Why do I do it? Because I don't care how poorly they perform. I just enjoy playing with my friends and having a good time. They however don't enjoy being in my fireteam nowadays where they'll go 1 and 20 in a match. No one enjoys being destroyed like that. In random matchmaking they might run into 1 or 2 high skilled players like that per match. In SBMM they will run into 6 high skilled players every single time in my fireteams. And I personally don't enjoy being forced to use the meta because every game at this skill level is a tryhard sweatfest. I'd like to have the opportunity to actually enjoy Crucible too, but instead it just feels more like a chore now.
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Oops, sorry Bro. I have addressed this but I'll quickly give you the short version. SBMM doesn't at first accommodate this phenomenon. However after some losses (providing you guys don't quit out of the match) you'll eventually be matched with lower skilled players. I know, not a perfect system but arguably better than zero allowance for skill matching.
