JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

Edited by BoogerLover: 2/11/2016 7:25:04 AM
222
Mystin, First, I'm sorry you've been having a rough time in PVP with regards to SBMM.... It is so hard for me to read your post and not feel a wee bit contemptuous towards your plight. Stay with me though, because I'm going to stay on the high road with you while I attempt to offer a different view by way of a counter-point to your situation. I've attempted to see your situation not through my eyes but rather truly understand through your perspective. However, let us consider all those potential players that you would be matched against if SBMM was turned off. I'll use myself for example... I'm speaking as someone who is in the top 53% in terms of K/D with an overall score of 0.97. So mathematically, my PVP skill is representative to roughly half of the total community (as opposed to your being within the super minority of 1%). 1. Regarding your situation w/SBMM and attempting to casually PVP with your girlfriend. It appears that you are failing to have fun due to your OP competitive nature. For example, I recently did the "Refer-a-Friend" thing and brought my very young nephew into Destiny. As we were leveling up his shiny new Titan, we went into the Crucible to knock out a few bounties... At first we got killed.... a lot..... But thank goodness for SBMM because eventually (after Shaxx breaking up a lot of teams) we were able to get enough kills to satisfy the bounties we were after. I had a great time because the whole point was to play with my nephew and eventually we could win a few. As a side note, SBMM prevented me from effectively "carrying" which many of us find annoying (when 1 or 2 players can carry an entire fire team and almost single-handedly wipe out the opposing team). 2. The fact that you felt the need to "create" a new account just to test out the "new changes," indicates to me that you don't want that precious K/D of yours to suffer while you "casual" it up and "have fun." Or, you miss a good ole Pub Stomp that SBMM has been denying you... Either way, looking at this in the most favorable light, I'm still coming up with the perspective that you just can't help yourself and continue to fail at the "fun" part. In other words, nobody but an uber OP competitive try hard would even consider what you did;"create a new account just to test out the new changes." Listen Bro, if you want to have fun, just let it go man.... Just take an "I don't care about my K/D (winning)" attitude and go uber casual mode. If you're not truly afflicted and can shake this OP competitive condition, you'll actually have fun.... :D 3. By the way you started this conversation, I infer that your K/D is important to you and in fact, a point of pride. Further, as you roll out your "competitive" resume (12 years worth apparently) in your appeal for SBMM to "be an optional experience," I couldn't help but get the notion that you simply don't know how to be non-competitive. I think a more honest way to define your position is that you want to win without having to try "sooooo hard." Truthfully, if you spend the better part of a weekend nerfing your K/D into oblivion than you'll start being matched against lesser skilled opponents like me. But the jeopardy there is that as soon as you start casually stomping us into the ground you'll be back to square one. 4. SBMM is a great concept for the majority of players out there. Is it flawed, yes. The lag is a big problem. However, with the potential of the new "damage referee" coupled with SBMM has potential to move us closer to that sweet spot that benefits the community (writ large vice you 1 percenters). I know this isn't what you probably wanted to hear but if you could afford to look beyond your 1% and consider Bungie's attempt to accommodate the greater majority you could be more understanding of their intentions with SBMM. If you really care about creating a fun PVP experience with your girlfriend and value that over your K/D, you'll find the solution was in front of you this whole time. :D Just have fun like I did playing with my nephew! After all, isn't that the whole point?
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • You have wow the destiny forums "Best spoken" Award. Be proud of this my friend.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • His main concern was that his girlfriend and other friends of his don't want to play crucible with him anymore because he brings opponents of his level of skill to his friends and they get curb stomped and struggle to get kills. He doesn't care about his KD being ruined nor even mentioned that, you did.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Yes, I know it seems that way but if you look closely, you can see he edited his initial post like just over 30 minutes ago. Now look at my post that you're replying too, it's over 12 hours ago. Unfortunately in the Op's attempt to clarify his position, elements of my initial post/reply seem out of context.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Everyone has their own definition of fun, if his is being on top of the world and stomping everyone down into oblivion then that's him

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • U inspire us all please teach us more.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Best counter argument to this topic I've ever seen. Hands down. I don't get why people take kd so seriously, as if there is some unannounced secret prize they are waiting for. My kd sucks. I don't care. I play for fun, if it's not fun....I don't play anymore.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • i dont care about my k/d but i do care about playing with my friends and if it means i cant have fun because im bringing the team down or tyhey are because of different SBMM, thats a different situaation. sure lose one here and there you dont care but to start loseing every single 1 constantly all becasue you wanna play with your friends youve made in destiny.....thats sad

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Great reply. Very well thought out.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Both sides of this has valid points in my opinion. While I agree SBMM is good for most of the crucible, I think it would be nice if they made a playlist that got rid of this feature and just focused on connection. Back in Halo 3 they had something similar to this with the social playlists. It's just hard to balance when you have friends that are at a significantly lower skill level.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Yes, Brilliant suggestion! I too would love for this to be an option. Realize my opinion was largely based on the OP's position: "Skill-Based Matchmaking across most/all playlists needs to go. Period." Your solution would potentially resolve his chief complaint whilst preserving SBMM for as you suggested the majority of crucible players.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Jesus this post is growing, I'm getting exhausted just by looking at the replies you're writing.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • think about me i just got back from a meeting and this post is grown like a teenager hitting a growth spurt , in High School, that is on the Foot ball team!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • E-Hug inbound Bro!

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • You are wrong. Sbmm means you will play players of your pretty much exact stats meaning it'll be super try hard whatever your skill level. Mixed lobbies are more fun for everyone. Search on connection then split teams fairly using stats. Simple

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • No. It's only sweaty for really good players. My KD is in the top third of players, and the changes actually made my typical game [i]easier[/i] and my KD improving. You have people trying to convince you that a rich persons problems are everyone's problem.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • For now, it's giving you a break from better players, but as your K/D improves the quality of the players you're up against will also improve until you find yourself in a position where it's all sweaty - all the time. When that happens, remember this topic.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • For 50% of the player base, who have a negative KD, every round is a try hard round regardless of SBMM or not. SBMM changed one thing from my perspective, lag. Lag is way worse. The games are just as hard as before, the matches just as sweaty. I think a majority of people have the same experience as me. But that majority is not on the forums. Every post I see about SBMM comes from a 1.5+ kder. Sorry to tell you, that 1.5 puts you in the minority of players. SBMM is fine, the lag is what's killing it.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • But SBMM and lag go hand in hand, without dedicated servers. The pool of those people (I am part of them) is just too small worldwide. And the moment you have to play against Australians/Mexicans (they are equally rubbish for me, as a European) because matches can't be filled by local players, is the moment SBMM rends itself ad absurdum, as skill now gets dictated by lag. For the below 1.0 players, it shouldn't really matter if they face a 1.1 or 3.0 KD player. They'll got destroyed by basically everyone.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • That definitely makes a difference. And it's not one 1.1 player, it's six.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • SBMM works differently than you imagine^^ It takes the average team Elo (or much rather a hidden MMR with metrics we don't know about) into account, instead of matching 6 players against each other, which are all at the same exact skill level. So you will usual have at least 1 really bad player per team, one who is just bad (compared to the rest of the team) and 1-2 who are pretty good. So A) KD is only a part of the equation/metric Bungie uses to determine your skill. B) A 0.9 KD player should never face 6 1.4 KD players. Be it with or without strict SBMM.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Again, this metric changes completely when fireteams are introduced. A team of six against a team of randoms will not match the same was as twelve randoms. That's my point. Almost none of those upper tier players are alone. So a blended skill metric will unbalance the competition. But it is better to have some semblance of balance versus simply a cbmm for a fireteam. SBMM affects the most amount of players in a positive or at least neutral way, and only makes the upper tier experience more difficult. The tired response is basically that it shouldn't matter. In other words, -blam!- the little guys, right?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • No, the metrics don't change when Fireteams enter the Crucible. Well, one does. They will get an increased average Elo, above their actual Elo (attributed to the fact that they can work better together). So when Destiny searches for players to get matched against said Fireteam, the enemies will a) be better in terms of true Elo and b) will still try to find 6 players which have an average Elo similar to the Fireteam + the artificial increase. And yes forced SBMM affects absolutely everyone. Mostly in terms of lag and sweatiness. You think that they need the damage referee because lag isn't an issue? You think that games aren't sweaty for 0.8-1.1 KD players? They face people in their skill bracket (so they have to try hard to win), while half of the players are lagging. Forced SBMM in an unbalanced and laggy game, without social playlists and dedicated servers is simply a no go. It should also be of note that Destiny seems to be the only game in which people want to be sheltered from everything. In CoD, the public outcry was huge when they introduced SBMM. So huge, that they apologised and instantly took it out of the game to revert to the previous state. Halo has different playlists, is balanced and has dedicated servers. No one complains about SBMM there. It's not that SBMM is bad per se. It's that Destiny's implementation is atrocious.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • That's exactly my point. A low KD player ALWAYS has to play "sweaty" if they want to win. They have no choice. SBMM or no, there is no way out of it. It is hard, and then it can be impossible when a big player comes and wipes the floor with you. The good players need to play with the good players. The great with the great. The great should not be playing with the rookie. The rookie cannot compete. You don't get better by going from T-ball to the big leagues. You progress through the game with your skill level and slightly above. If upper tier players can't have fun unless they are mopping up, they have this thing called PvE. It's super easy. Don't like trying every single round? Welcome to the world of the 51%. Probably higher actually since it's still tough at 1.1. The outcry is because there is no option period. No private matches, nothing. In a game with zero match options for customization, SBMM is the most fair. People who argue against that either a) don't care what's fair, or b) aren't in the lower tiers. Now, if you add in customization for matches and private games, SBMM is definitely not the best option. For now though, a blended approach leaning towards SBMM is ideal. The forum petitions need to get off of the SB/CB debate and focus on actual customization. That's what actually fixes the problem.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Since a below average player has to sweat anyhow, I really don't see the issue. In the end it is a question of only a few things. If the lag gets noticeably more, it either means that your net code sucks, or that the player base isn't big enough to maintain strict SBMM. Since lag has always been an issue, but has never been as bad as after the moment they introduced SBMM, it's obvious what it means. A game that is unbalanced and uses rotating metagames with ever changing Fotm metas, has no business, and I mean absolutely none at all, to employ strict SBMM. That's obvious, but in case of you not knowing what is implied here, I'll say it explicitly: There is no baseline for skill, in such a scenario. Even less so, when lag dictates match outcomes more than skill. Are there separated lists for SBMM and non SBMM? No? Then you don't employ forced SBMM across all playlists. No shooter I know of, does that. I also do not understand why they didn't make Trials and IB their dedicated and allays available SBMM playlists. Do we have dedicated servers? No? Then SBMM is a bad idea from the get go. As I said before, SBMM is something good. I like playing competitively on my level. However Bungie implementation is simply abysmally bad. Just getting worse with all the lag since December. Another thing I constated before, is that Destiny is the only popular shooter I know of, with a playerbase which feels entitled to not play against good players. I honestly never witnessed such a whiny attitude, in any other FPS. Top 1% players are literally just that, 1%ers. So the chance of you playing against one is.... Take a guess :D 1%.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Your opening quote is the problem. Since they have to sweat anyway, who cares? Well, over half the player base cares. There is a drastic difference between playing a 1.1 KD player and a 2.0 player. I am not for strict SBMM. But it needs to be the first checkpoint to making a match... But definitely not the only one. If Destiny's numbers are as good as Bungie purports, there Is a big enough player base.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

2 3 4 5 6 7 8
You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon