Some people speculate that the first curse is the "rose" since it was the sister to the last word and dredgen and jaren were most likely brothers
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Idk cause the first curse and tlw both do the twirl thing and look the same but with different paint jobs, you'd think that the rose would look somewhat like thorn
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Well the Croat guns are just normal guns with hive shell on them and dredgen was influenced by the darkness