No, that doesn't exclusively mean Sunbreakers. The Titan class as a whole. This is PvP wise, since that's where most complaints about Titans come from. I think we can all agree in Year 1, Titans were a bit lackluster compared to other classes, because of the lack of having a decent subclass for PvP. Most of you know this, I've mained a Titan since Vanilla. I exclusively played it until I was level 30 and had leveled up both subclasses (felt like being a completionist before moving on). Edit: Fair warning, this is a long-ish post. I accidentally posted it too early before and nobody saw it, so what's why I'm re-posting it. Now, you'll notice my overall K/D ratio is absolute shit on my Titan. I used Striker, but I got hardly any ability kills. People would dodge my grenades all the time, even when I thought it was a perfect placement. When was the last time you died to a Pulse Grenade? A Lightning Grenade? Me, almost [i]never[/i]. Flashbangs are decent, but should explode on hit, none of this "small-AoE bank-shot" nonsense... My Storm Fist barely even tickles people, and the perk upgrades do nothing to alleviate this. I'm hitting someone with goddamn [b]lightning,[/b] shouldn't it be more powerful?! I'm a [i]Striker,[/i] aren't I supposed to be shattering the enemy lines with my fists?! Hits with Storm Fist have a [i]chance[/i] to reset its cooldown? How's this useful? Melees already 2-hit people... So using 2 Storm Fist charges is pointless. (What would even be the point of this in PvE?) Hits with Storm Fist deal AoE damage? Oh, does that make it on-hit kill? ...does it even increase the damage it does? ...no? ...then how's it useful? Chance at dealing [i]some[/i] damage to two or three people at once? Doesn't really help much, I could just use a grenade for that... Oh wait, they dodged it. At least I still have Shoulder Charge, that's a one-hit kill... Oh, it puts an annoying effect on my screen... oh no, it doesn't kill Ram Warlocks... (Which in Year 1, meant pretty much all Warlocks. Including mine.) At least I still have the Greaves? You see the pattern by now. And Defender... Yes, it's an amazing Support subclass. But they should be more tanky than Sunbreakers, with a name like [i]Defender[/i]. They can't even spec for a max armor bar! Even with Untouchable, the armor bar still can't be filled all the way up! If this is possible with a Void Armor chestpiece, the bonus should show in the Armor Stat bar. Disintegrate and Force Barrier should definitely be more effective than [b]Flame Shield[/b]. Disintegrate takes a kill to use up, and doesn't do any extra damage. Flame Shield not only sets the victim on fire, but procs [b]on hit.[/b] With a powerful name like [i]Disintegrate[/i], it's pretty underwhelming. Hey, I can make my weapons reload and ready super quick! ...oh, Force Barrier doesn't recharge though. Look, I can generate tons of orbs for my team! ...oh, I have to go meleeing everything, and Force Barrier still doesn't recharge. WHOA, I can make it recharge! ...oh, I can't use those other cool bonuses... URGH Grenades... Okay guys, c'mon. People shouldn't be able to be stuck by a Magnetic Grenade, keep running and survive. C'mon now. Spike grenades... They don't even last 5 friggin' seconds. Do they at least suck people in and slow them down...? Nope, they just move out of the way. Suppressor grenades... Whoa, something actually useful?! It can shut down Supers?! But, if I already have a grenade that attaches to people, and one that sticks to walls... NOOOO, SMALL-AOE BANK-SHOT NONSENSE! WHYYYYYY?! So yeah, I've seen people pull off sick moments with Striker and Defender. I've experienced them myself. But as a Sunbreaker, I feel like a powerhouse, 100% of the time. Because, when you look at my more recent games... My Titan's K/D rises dramatically. Obviously, Sunbreaker is here now. My grenades can stick people for a guaranteed kill! They can do lingering damage! My melee actually kills people! That does lingering damage too! It actually has different, useful perks! My Super can get kills across the map instead of all in close range! It doesn't get used up in 2 seconds! Now, this was around the time I switched from Shotguns to Snipers, so you could say that was a factor in the K/D increase, it requires smarter play. But let's look at my game history. In Control, where most of my games are spent, I have 24 "Hammer and Tongs" medals. I have 23 "Cry Havoc" medals. Pretty even, right? Oh, wait, Sunbreaker's only been out 3 and a half months. Striker's been out for over a year... hmm. In Clash, I have 26 "Hammer and Tongs" medals. Hmm... wait, where are all my Cry Havoc medals? I- oh. There's only one... Literally, only one. Smaller game modes? Alright. Skirmish, 2 Hammer and Tongs. Any Cry Havocs? No? Rumble, 11 Hammer and Tongs. Cry Havoc... Nope. Salvage, 5 Hammer and Tongs. Cry Havocs... 1. Obviously, can't compare HoS with Ward of Dawn because it's not even possible to kill people with the actual Ward of Dawn. Only success I've seen with WoD is when I go into Control with my friends, all running Defender, and we create a bunch of orbs for each other on B, and run Weapons of Light with Ice Breaker or No Land Beyond. (Ice Breaker got nerfed tho, RIP the dream.) Now Defender has Immobius and Y2 No Backup Plans, but I'm still wondering if that's even viable in PvP. Sounds like it could be, but... I dunno. Edit: I'm not saying Titan is unusable without Sunbreaker in its current state, but you have to admit, it took [i]much[/i] less effort to get kills with Warlock and Hunter abilties in Y1. For casuals, Titans can be much harder to use, and the other classes are easier. Bolt grenades auto-hit people in their general area. Lightning grenades require good placement. Blink Strike and Warlock melee have insane range, Titans have T-Rex arms. You had to strategically use Fist of Havoc and your Ward. Arc Blade, Radiance, Golden Gun, like Hammer of Sol, you can just wander around and wait to find some poor souls to decimate. Don't deny this and tell me I'm bad with Defender and Striker. They're not bad subclasses, but it takes much more effort to be good with those, because you have to use certain perks or else they don't work and have no synergy. Sunbreakers have more build options by comparison and are much more mobile. [b]TL;DR[/b] Don't just say "git gud" or tell me to delete my Titan. Casual players exist. So, I'm bringing all this to people's attention because of one thing. The 11/19/15 weekly update. In it, DeeJ says "Senior Design Lead Sage Merill has been thinking a lot about Titans." Notice how he said [i]Titans.[/i] Not just [i]Sunbreakers,[/i] but Titans. They also specify that "Sunbreakers are only one third of the Titan conversation". Which undoubtedly means the Y1 Titan subclasses are getting discussed next week. Now, I know this is a very vague statement, but instead of just saying "oh Sunbreaker nerf confirmed", think about what this could mean. A Sunbreaker nerf would make a LOT of people happy. It would also make a LOT of people sad. I think if that was [i]all[/i] they were doing, they would've said it outright. My theory is that Bungie has realized how underpowered the other two subclasses are compared to Sunbreaker, and how overpowered Sunbreaker is compared to them, which is why people gravitate towards exclusively using it, and that all 3 must be on equal levels, all PvP wise. So is the Sunbreaker nerf coming? Most likely. But it's not the only thing. I'm willing to bet Striker and Defender are going to become just as tempting PvP options, real soon. They [i]really[/i] need to. If not, then it'll be a sad day for Titans when the December update finally come out. [b]TL;DR:[/b] Sunbreakers are getting nerfed, Strikers and Defenders are getting buffed to make them all level in PvP. Exact quotes: "Sage has been thinking a lot about Titans." "Sunbreakers are a hot topic, but they're only one third of the Titan conversation." P.S. Extend melee range pls, just a lil bit, do not like muh T-Rex arms. Oh, and Incendiary Grenades should on-hit explode too. No small-AoE bank-shot nonsense for anyone. Peace. Edit: Obligatory "oh hey cool we're trending" edit. But for real, I'm glad this is starting a discussion. Spent the whole morning work in on this, so I'm glad it's getting some traction. Keep it up guys. Ayy 100+ replies Ayy 200+ replies Ayy 300+ replies