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Edited by Stahero: 8/24/2015 1:11:08 AM
11

Understanding Hatred & Knowing Thy Enemy

This needs to be made abundantly clear. The following article is not an attack directed toward anyone. This is not written as a called-for defense for wounded parties. For that which follows is said objectively, meant to educate, enlighten, or otherwise inform what is being evidently misunderstood or ignored. Guardians, we need to talk. [b]UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER[/b] The Bungie forums are a platform of social media which encourage users to proactively write opinion-based threads, posts, and comments about a plethora of topical discussion; the game of Destiny being in the primacy of the latter. This channel of commentary is meant to establish both a unionized fan base of social interaction and also a direct line of communication for community members to reach out to developers and vice versa. This is becoming increasingly untrue. The Community of the Destiny Forums can be consistently seen debating in fervent hostility. And while a Code of Conduct exists to prevent or otherwise control the flow of derogatory harassment, a substantial number of users continue to belittle, insult, and bully prospective points across. Because of these dubiously unrestricted comments, community members have become more and more divided over matters of simple agreement. In the most extreme scenarios, users often will elect to cruelly demean and degrade other users instead of just simply agreeing to disagree. This further causes a sense of political strife among the general consensus of users which directly opposes the unity the forums are meant to establish between fans. [b]UNDERSTANDING BUNGIE[/b] The relationship between the developers and the players is becoming increasingly damaged. With each subsequent update released from Bungie, a large number of dissatisfied players openly denounce their former/existing support for Bungie, typically deciding to forgo the purchase of future content coupled with disheartened forfeit. Their dissatisfaction is an extension of impatience, injustice, and intolerance. It is popularly perceived Bungie thus ignores its player base, overcharges DLC, and unduly punishes and rewards certain parties. Again, this is untrue. Bungie, the developers of Destiny, [b]DO NOT[/b] hold exclusive autonomy in their game's development. Activision, the publishers of Destiny, fund or otherwise pay Bungie to internally develop their licensed intellectual property. Activision is therefore, an "external developer" and actively monitors, critiques, and even assists in ongoing development. As such, Activision has substantial influence and control in what Bungie can and cannot do. As a publisher, Activision retains exclusive rights to distribute retail and market DLC accordingly. Prices, timeframes, and allotted content are therefore outside of Bungie's exclusive authority. Additionally, Bungie cannot claim exclusive monetization on their intellectual property. Revenue is distributed among the publisher, developer, manufacturer, retailer, and console royalty. I.e., whenever a consumer purchases a new copy of Destiny, that money is not channeled directly to the developers. It instead is sent through the distribution chain and only a small modicum is profited by Bungie. Therefore, Destiny is primarily financed through contracts with the publisher and [b]not[/b] through immediate sales. [b]UNDERSTANDING RESTRAINTS[/b] From this, it can be implied Activision pushed for dual-generation release rather than exclusively new generation release. While a profitable business strategy, maintaining support for last generation is a primary reason Destiny is heavily criticized for failing to deliver an exemplary gaming experience. In example, the remedial, yet hotly contested issue of Vault Space would drastically improve were support for last generation dropped entirely. Server based memory is not the same as internal based memory. A console only needs to accommodate a set number of users and user data. In example, whenever a file is saved on an internal memory unit, it only needs to have a small pocket of data available to accommodate the saved file. This saved data stored on the console's internal memory is not shared worldwide and thus can seemingly hold a greater amount of gaming content. Whenever a Destiny profile is saved, that profile is saved on Bungie's always active servers. Unlike internal based memory, the profile is not given a small pocket of accommodating data, but is instead housed with 16 million other profiles around the world. Bungie's servers therefore need to be ready to accommodate these profiles comfortably and simultaneously while always being ready to accept/lose profiles without affecting others. This, combined with Destiny's in-game content pushes last generation consoles to their absolute limits. It ultimately why Vault Space cannot be greatly increased and still remains a notable restraint to developers. [b]TL;DR[/b] In my personal opinion, everything I just said is why all the needless hate needs to stop. The hate on Bungie, the hate on Destiny, the hate on each other. There's no good reason for it. Bungie will make substantial improvements but it will take time. It will take understanding on our end and compromise on theirs. Destiny can't be expected to grow while still supporting last generation consoles. This. Is. A. Fact. It will only be until maybe Destiny 2 things will noticeably get better. In the meantime, be good to each other and be good to Bungie. Provide feedback sure, but there's no need to be hateful about it. Stay golden, Guardians Eltar Sarkhardy

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  • Edited by ProYunk: 8/25/2015 2:54:19 AM
    Nice post man. I am guilty of coming down rather hard on "nerf babies." For me, that is because Bungie has shown a [i]willingness[/i] to listen to the community and make changes. But a lot of these changes were implanted because of poor reasons for wanting a nerf or poor solutions to apparent problems. Wanting to nerf something because it is [i]too hard[/i] drives me crazy. I don't want my achievements watered down because someone else can't do it. I don't want my guns, my abilities, and my supers diminished because someone can't figure out how to counter it. I have made it a point to almost always factually and logically refute [i]most[/i] posts calling for any sort of PvP nerf. [spoiler]most recent example of calling out a bad nerf post https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/148716002/0/0/1 [/spoiler] Example: a lot of people are crying for shotgun nerfs. Shotguns are incredibly dominant right now. But the solution to that isn't to weaken perks or base stats that alter established game play - the [u]best[/u] solution is provide a variety of maps. All of the control maps now favor medium to close range load outs. If the play testers and Devs added map variety you would see much less shotgun spamming and more ranged encounters. The only nerf i advocated for was thorn and TLW because the ttk of those weapons were laughably better than most other guns. My aggressive defense of PvP (though I rarely cursed) was an attempt to enlighten the other guardian and discourage them in making future [b]thoughtless[/b] suggestions. Just my two cents. Everything you wrote was spot on though. #FreeSols

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  • First off, let me congratulate you on a fantastically well written post! The mindless hate is troublesome yes, but in all honesty, it is warranted. With the Taken King reveal on Twitch and the subsequent BWU, it is clear that Bungie does not value our time, nor our efforts. A lot of the anger stems from the fact that Bungie communicated to the player base that they understood that we valued the time, and would not repeat the mistakes of The Dark Below exotic debacle. And, then then went ahead and did it again anyway. It is a very unethical thing to do. Of course Activision has a hand in some of this, in that you are correct, but if I recall correctly, Bungie has COMPLETE CREATIVE CONTROL over how Destiny is made and goes forward, and they want to OWN the IP after Activision comes into the deal. This was a major requirement when they were seeking a new company to partner with. Activision gave them that in a way. Consult this: http://destiny.wikia.com/wiki/Bungie-Activision_Contract Bungie still owns the IP. Activision owns the rights to distribute it. This means that Bungie is kind of free to do what they would like in-game (within reason and accountability), but pricing is probably out of their hands. The contract is also full of some weird things like revealing of all Easter Eggs in game, and banning Valve, Gearbox and Epic from making any Destiny themed games. It also requires that Activision have first negotiating rights after the contract expires. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that this is, in fact, Bungie's mess, not Activision's. Pricing is one thing, lying and perpetuating hyperbole is all Bungie. Players probably wouldn't be so angry if Bungie were more upfront about hot button issues like exotics in The Taken King. They pride themselves on being cryptic and vague, and Deej has said many times that "We prefer to let our actions speak for themselves." Well, they're speaking all right. So far what they've said, to me anyways, is that they are very adept lip service. No matter how you slice it, Bungie told us a BALD FACED LIE regarding exotics and the future. There's no denying it. There's no covering it up. There's absolutely no way that they could forget they told us that - it was in a Weekly Update for crying out loud! [b] Hell, Deej even said that he would be releasing Gjallarhorn stats in the BWU during the stream, and he didn't even do that.[/b] Bungie just needs to talk to us honestly. Stop allowing Deej to post useless updates that cause more confusion and anger, and are really just a bunch of words that don't really tell us anything. Stop double talking. Stop being so damn cryptic. Stop allowing arrogant designers to walk around saying things like "You'll throw money at the screen." There's probably a reason we never got a PvE related Open House. Weren't we supposed to get one of those? Bungie said one was coming. Hasn't happened yet. Probably won't. A popular argument about year two exotics is that those that aren't there at launch, may come forward at a later time. Well, WHY NOT TELL US THAT if that is the case?! That would solve a mountain of issues by itself! If you had no intention of exotics going all the way in Destinty, why play them up like they will? We are justifiably angry, and no, Activision is NOT to blame for anything other than pricing. Bungie has done a horrible job at communicating with fans. All they have done is stall and lie. Look at 90% of Deej's posts here (when he actually does care to post); they are usually snarky, with little to no relation to the question asked. And he sometimes goes WEEKS without posting here. The questions in the most recent update weren't even questions that were hot on the forums, except for the Gally not being year two. The rest was made up and he simply regurgitated from the stream to answer them. How can someone claim to honestly represent us as a community when he can't be bothered with the us 90% of the time?! Cozmo is only marginally better. I was kind of stoked to see him come on as I thought it would be a change in how Bungie handles the community. Well, we've traded no response to something to the effect of, "Sure, I'll take that to the Dev team." I'm pretty sure "Dev Team" is the name of a garbage can by his desk. I love Destiny. Everyone knows that. However, I really don't like the way Bungie handles us. Bungie is handling everything controversial with Destiny either by burying their heads in the sand and ignoring us, or placating us with words. One poster said, "Without honesty, no discussion can go on within civilized fashion. Unfortunately dishonesty comes from Bungie which causes all the issues." I couldn't agree more! Well said mertgokceimam. Well said indeed.

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    • Edited by botbot1973: 8/24/2015 4:49:37 PM
      And why is bungie not saying this? Because it's bullshit? If there was an HONEST explanation,bungie would give it. But they can't justify there actions...end of story. Worst filibustering post I have read.

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      • Without honesty no discussion can go on within civilised fashion. Unfortunately dishonesty comes from Bungie which causes all the issues.

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      • Who are you kidding? From the looks of it a new (or set of)table is used to store players' items in the second page of vault. While digging through the indexes of extra table will cost performance a bit, people have to see the first table while the second one is loaded anyway. This means Bungie can give us tons of spaces easily. It could be a technical problem, but looks like you got your solution, so no more excuses.

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      • [quote]Stupid me. I thought this was a new mission statement. A objective for the future. It would apply to future content in Destiny 1. A concept that would last longer then 3 months. But now we see that those 3 month old exotics from PoE and House of wolves are different. They are garbage now. Trash. [b]That only applied to Dark below !!! Now for the House of Wolves and Taken King Bungie wants us :[quote] “To look at your favorite gun or helmet and decide that it had become obsolete. "[/quote] [b]It's next year when DLC 2 year two comes out that :[/b] [quote]Since the reveal, we’ve read a lot of ideas for how this could have been done better. Your feedback is clear:[u][i] [b]The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected.”[/b] [/i][/u][/quote] And Bungie will offer a new infusion of commendation Etheric mote mark that will take all old exotics from year 1 and year 2 and bring them up to new levels ......for the price of the new Cabal War Machine DLC (coming January 12 2016). Can't wait. Looks like we have been played! #saveourexotics[/quote]

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      • Thank you. This was a great post. Thank for taking the time to write all of this out.

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      • This is true which is why I said when activision releases its biggest game in black ops 3, a lot will change for destiny.

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        • You have to remember that a majority of the members who partake in these forums struggle to engage in civil disagreement without allowing their emotions to eventually erode and dicate how they engage each other. I've stirred the pot plenty of times but when I want to get my point across I do it in an objective and [i]civil[/i] manner. That's how you do things on social media, which IMO is more akin to a social scourge.

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