JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

Edited by N7riseSSJ: 8/25/2015 2:11:43 AM
47

Why Destiny is still Beta (and a few other things)

Hello all! I am hoping to highlight some of my observations about Destiny through this post, and I hope those of you who read it will enjoy it. It will be long but after each paragraph I will insert a TL;DR summary for those of you who want to get the gist of what I will say. [b]First of all, the Beta and Weapon Tuning Turmoil[/b] Why is Destiny still Beta? First, let's start with the definition of a Beta game. Here is a Definition by Urban Dictionary; [quote]A beta version of a program, game etc... is an unfinished version released to either the public a select few or whoever signs up to beta test it for bugs or glitches.[/quote] This wikipedia page also breaks down the various stages of a video game as well, which is also helpful; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_development#Beta. It is also commonly known that a Beta video game is played by the lucky players who get picked to test out the unfinished video game for bugs and various other things. Also from reading one post on the forum, the Beta players didn't have access to all of the game, and some guns worked and didn't work, some enemies had this and that, and so on. So, how then does this make the current game we are playing Beta? This game clearly has areas which are not yet accessible to us. For example; the final subclass slot being blank (yes, I know this will be filled with TTK); the many open slots for ghost shells (yes, I know if you bought the one special edition you got the red ghost shell, but multiple slots and dead ghosts that we revive suggest that in the future custom ghost shells will exist.) Other examples include spaces on The Reef map and on other maps; we can only go to 3 of 9 planets in our solar system; the story has wide gaping holes that leave way more questions than answers and is severely lackluster (I don’t play COD because the story is short, and Destiny doesn’t even have a short story, it’s incomplete!); guns are imbalanced and continue to receive multiple changes (most games don't need this to my knowledge when released to the public); and a myriad of other things that I am sure you all can point out (ToO cheating possibilities). Also, it has been stated by many members of the community that Bungie has said they are open to our suggestions for the game. Isn't that what Beta versions of games rely on? It seems like Bungie is definitely relying on this. Every game I suppose wants to hear about major issues that seriously affect gameplay, but Bungie seems to be relying on this a lot, just my observation. This is largely observed with weapon balancing. I would expect a completed game to not need to balance weapons as much, and to rigorously have the weapons tested by Beta testers and employees so that there would be minimal need to send out large patches. If you wanted us to take longer for missions and strikes, this should have been totally ironed out before the game was released. [u]Weapon Tuning Turmoil[/u] I don't have a whole lot of experience with shooting games, so I am not entirely sure how much weapon tuning other shooting games have had (is it called FPS? my inexperience is showing!) I also want it to be known that I am up for the new 2.0 weapon balance because I want to see how this will affect the game, and if it will allow people to decide to use more weapons in crucible. Although many people already do this, I think a lot of people also use things like TLW and Thorn because they're strong and can bring easy kills a good amount of the time (which is why I use TLW because I'm not that great at pvp). I think that the amount of weapon tuning in this game is disproportionate for a "completed" game (going back to my beta argument). Once again, if the developers of this game had made sure that weapons were balanced before releasing the game, then tweaks would barely need to be made. Also, if they had spent more time with weapons, they would have been able to determine that the exotics (like Gjallarhorn) would have been correctly balanced had their power only been slightly superior to Legendary weapons (and since this game is still in beta, our feedback can determine the correct balance, and why so many patches are being dished out for weapons). I want to say more about the Gjallarhorn, and the Ice Breaker. Gjallarhorn, from what I've read, is being "nerfed" because of people requiring it for raiding, and the Ice Breaker is being "nerfed" because people sit and shoot barely moving (which is the point of a sniper, might I add). From the player’s standpoint, these weapons are used to take down the bosses faster. Why would I or anyone else want to spend a long time beating these bosses that we have already conquered multiple times? This is another problem; the limited content associated with the 10 year model… TL;DR - This game has many incomplete things and a lot of bugs, and Bungie seems to lean on our feedback a lot, especially for weapons. [b]Second, the 10 year release plan.[/b] But the 10 year plan addresses the missing content you say? Yes it does, however this is an interesting concept. Let me relate this to a television show that has seasons. If a television show released a new episode once a year, people would get very bored an uninterested. But if they released an episode once a week for 15+ weeks, people would be interested and satisfied and be excited for the next season since they were fed content at reasonable intervals over a reasonable period of time. This is one of the differences between video games and TV series (also the interaction involved with video gaming). It is also why video games now tend to release DLC (just an observation). Many games have content that you can pour hours into until the next release of the game (Skyrim). Many games have content that you can pour a moderate amount of hours into, and then be able to release a game each year to keep refreshing interest (Assassin's Creed, however I have lost interest since the game has lost its magic in my opinion for various reasons). What Bungie has done for Destiny is release a game that would have had the potential to have you put in a moderate amount of hours until the next game is released. The problem lies with the very limited amount of content, which aligns with the example of a television show releasing one episode a year and having people lose interest. How did they combat this possibility of waning interest? They implemented an RNG system. This is what keeps people playing until the next installment. Releasing content each week would lose them money, obviously. So with the RNG, you never know what you are going to get, or when you will get it, while also keeping players around. While this may not equate to interest, it does equate to continuous playing, which is good for the company (but very frustrating for the player, and why many have left this game behind. No, things shouldn’t be handed to us, but they should be reasonably *acquired). TL;DR - Destiny is a Hybrid of a television series that releases its episodes every once in a while, and keeps people interested via an RNG system that employs a gambling system that keeps you hooked and playing to get what you want (give me Suros and IceBreaker please!) [b]Last but not least, The 10 year game and our wallets[/b] So, in this section I am going to talk a little about pricing. I don't have a whole lot of room to complain since Destiny and the System I play on were given to me as a gift (for which I am very grateful for). What I'd like to talk about is how much someone could spend on this game over the next 10 years if Bungie and Activision decide to stick to this interesting yet very questionable business model. These are estimates. So the base game initially was $60 dollars, and the two expansions were $20 each. Let's say they do this each year; TTK is $40, so I am going to guess very roughly that the next DLC's after that will be approximately $20 each ($40+$20, assuming they don’t release a $60 DLC besides Destiny 2). So that makes $80 for the next 9 years. $80 x 9 = $720 + $100 for the initial game makes a total of $820+ spent for 10 years. Now, this is a VERY flexible number, but it is an example for how much you might pay for the game if they continue to follow the model they are employing. Apparently there are 9.5 million users according to this article http://kotaku.com/all-the-ways-activision-is-avoiding-saying-what-destiny-1654985376. So applying our 10 year investment with that they will have made near $7.8 billion (probably more).Interesting! That's not something I am interested in doing for a game that is incomplete (Beta!). If you want to, that's ok, it's your money and you can do whatever you want with it. I am interested in TTK but I am going to wait to buy it. I am not sure about future expansions, but I don't find it worth it to invest that much money into one game that is not complete. Maybe for complete games over time, but not for DLC. TL;DR- If Bungie and Activision continue with their business model, you will have spent somewhere in the ballpark of $800+ dollars over ten years to fully play Destiny. Destiny has a lot of potential to be a truly amazing game, since it already has amazing graphics, and the supporting material to grow into something great. It is also interesting how they have employed psychology (RNG) to keep players, and also plan to release the game over 10 years like a television series. They are trying to do something new. However, this is very frustrating for a large amount of players, and it is possible that many players will have invested a very large amount of money for one single game over the course of 10 years. I hope you guys enjoyed or at least were interested in my analysis. I hope to engage in fruitful discussion with many of you.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by SKILES85: 8/16/2015 2:58:31 AM
    It's not a beta. It's a shitty game that we all thought was gonna be awesome. Like you said the graphics, gameplay, and teamwork is awesome. But there just isn't much of a game. It's all reliant on players getting addicted to chasing after limited time events and completing the same crap before weekly resets. And they plan to rake it in for 10 years charging 20-40 bucks for every 2 hours of content they slap together.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • Very good written post , i really liked it On top of all you stated add one more additional nightmare : Bungie has terrible customer relationship which is also build on Lies. No business can endure a 10 year run with that bad customer relationship and Lie's. Lie's will hunt you one day or another. Sad thing is we all loved this game and the potential it hold. It looks like another company will capitalise FPS - MMO - RPG combination and will surely take great lessons from Destiny in future.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      2 Replies
      • Activision!

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Bump

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        1 Reply
        • bump!

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • You have no rights, play nice.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • You make some good points, but it has been rumored, (I forget where, I was YouTube surfing), that bungie is hoping to stop charging you after year two for the content, and it will just be continuos updates to content and such. Now this is A RUMOR. It's not fact. We know destiny costs 50 million to make, so I think once bungie is able to satisfy activisions greedy pockets, they'll stop charging us. It's been apparent with Halo, that bungie likes its gamers, and as also apparent with the twitch stream that they are listening to what we have to say. I personally like how the game is going. I like the RNG, and how I have to try really hard to get the things I want (I'm not a fan of handouts). Destiny is going to be a game made over ten years. If you think of games like CoD, they make you buy a new game every year, and you can't even keep the content you've earned from the year before. Destiny is great because we can keep our beloved characters and gear all ten years of we really want to. Sure they might not be of any use, but you have them nonetheless. Summary: destiny is a work in progress, and as each year rolls by, the game will become greater. People just have to stop fuming about things they want not happening instantly. That's the ideas of a child. Sure we paid lots of money for it, but we are paying for a growing, changing game, AS EVERYONE KNEW WHEN THEY BOUGHT IT. The RNG is evil, sure. But so what? It forces you to come back to each thing to get what you want. If everything was easily grab able, the game would be boring. My best advice would be to play whatever you want, and if you want to wait to buy the taken king, go ahead. They won't change the price, but you can wait and decide if you want to pay it. This game is much like world of Warcraft. The first year it was small and kind of lackluster. But as it grows, it becomes this crazy game people get hooked on. Have some patience. Bungie will fix the game, but programming is a very difficult thing to do. I'm taking programming classes in college right now, and I learned how much money bungie is losing trying to fix the problems in the game. Each line of code they could have changed back in its design cost an average of $1. Well the cost of changing code while its in use is $75 PER line of code. Bungie is suffering for their "beta game", so do try to lessen the hate at them.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 Reply
            • [quote]if you are truly dissatisfied with Bungie and their tactics, check this link out to see how Caseyoakdale got his refund https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/149137757/0/0[/quote]

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              1 Reply
              • You know , instead of relentlessly hating on a company who's trying to bring you a good gaming experience, you could make helpful and productive posts. Even Lost Sols posts were somewhat positive.

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                5 Replies
                • I've realized it isn't 'become legend,' it's more of a grow your legend "cha-cha-cha-chia" style.

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  2 Replies
                  • Sorry Tl;Dr

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                    2 Replies
                    • Edited by BruhhhWatchThis: 8/25/2015 3:43:39 PM
                      So far through one year it'll be $140 USD. That's a hefty amount. Plus, XBO players get shafted with certain content being withheld for a whole year. It's ridiculous.

                      Posting in language:

                       

                      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                      5 Replies
                      • Good stuff, mate.

                        Posting in language:

                         

                        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        1 Reply
                        • Edited by Arclight545: 8/25/2015 5:21:31 AM
                          Thermonuclear BUMP!! Completely on point!

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Bump

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Bump teehee

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                        • Git good scrub... Haha jk,very very interesting. I might hire you for my next college assay ;) I completely agree with what you said. If they didn't want a gun to be OP they should have known years ago and not when they're about to come with another major expansion. But at lvl 32 gjallarhorn was the only weapon to down crota on hard, that set today's standard of players alienating others because they don't have this weapon. Destiny should have set other launchers a bit more powerful so anybody could have done it but now they complain of people doing it. Also if a weapon was designed to be powerful they should never mess with that, many people have quit because of it. Btw, never thought of that TV series analogy but you hit bullseye on that one. Problem with destiny is the confusing non existent story. Well I would tell you more but "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain" See ya later in the chat.

                          Posting in language:

                           

                          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                          2 Replies
                          • Excellent analysis and conclusions. I have had many of the same thoughts and suspicions myself, especially since the initial hard drive size of vanilla Destiny was nearly identical to that of the "beta" that was released. That, combined with the lack of PvE content and the waffling over MANY weapons design issues, strongly points to this game as unfinished. However, I had not done the math on how much Activision and Bungie stand to make from this little experiment if it lasts 10 years. That's enlightening. Frankly, just from the game's initial sales it's clear that we the community have gilded some very nice corporate golden parachutes. I've enjoyed the game, but I'm really disappointed in its failures; chiefly, in the failures of Bungie to be truly transparent with their fans about their lackluster story delivery and PvP tweaking.

                            Posting in language:

                             

                            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                            1 Reply
                            • Great post, but add more paragraphs between points to make it easier to read.

                              Posting in language:

                               

                              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                              3 Replies
                              • Edited by Damien Darque: 8/19/2015 3:01:54 PM
                                Very well written, and I agree on certain points. I do think you left out 1 specific point about the Gally/Icebreaker, people used them mostly because the bosses, for the most part don't require any specific skill besides DPSing them down. Simply, they aren't fun, just giant damage sponges that you HAVE to attack from a distance due to EVERY boss having a 1HKO AoE that triggers close range. So that takes Shotguns and any other close range weapons out of the running. Usually they also spawn waves of enemies while the player has limited cover, so constant DPS is at a premium. In reality, due to the boss design, a Rocket Launcher really is the best decision for a boss, thus the best rocket launcher ( the Gally ) became overused. This is only part of the problem, which Bungie should've noticed. Due to the nature of the RNG, there was no way to guarantee that you'd get the drop you wanted, and so running the raids as fast as possible became a priority for loot hunters. This created the Gally elitism. So in essence, it's Bungie's fault that this elitism existed in the first place and doing a minor nerf to the Gally won't change anything because the bosses are still boring damage sponges with 1 severely optimal strategy. It has less to do with Destiny being a beta and more to do with Bungie's inability to create interesting and varied bosses.

                                Posting in language:

                                 

                                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                2 Replies
                                • Bump (post edited for various words changes)

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                • What if every game is a beta, and every beta is a game *jaden smith creeps up*

                                  Posting in language:

                                   

                                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  1 Reply
                                  • So true bump

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  • Interesting.

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  • Barmp!

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                  • Bump

                                    Posting in language:

                                     

                                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                                    1 Reply
                                    You are not allowed to view this content.
                                    ;
                                    preload icon
                                    preload icon
                                    preload icon