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3/27/2015 9:44:30 AM
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Which is the lamest excuse I have heard when it comes to this. The only way the old system could be holding the visuals in the UI back is if their is some extremly lazy programming. Its not like the 360/ps3 cant handle high def pictures or more than 30 items in a menu. I'm very happy they expanded the vault , but to keep blaming each problem or lame fix on legacy issues is getting a tad desparate looking.
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Its obviously the case as they have had to disable item comparing in vault to add space on x360 and ps3 still present on new consoles
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Please do some optimization-intensive coding for legacy systems and get back to us all when you do. This has absolutely nothing to do with UI - and all of you who think it does are just blindly swinging, at this point.
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So can you explain what it has to do with if its not just the display in the UI? All the ui si doing is reading from tables and assembling (the pictures of) the goods that you have (much like the ships do). Can you explain how this is going 'deeper'? You cant make a blanket statement about people being wrong wihtout any info to back it up. TBH I think the real point that I am making is that ALL of these things have been done in OLDER games and I failt o see HOW Destiny isunable to do them.
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The simple fact of the matter is that the UI is just the end-user facing aspect of it. The attributes of the objects themselves need to be held in memory. Yes, rendering does use memory - but so does object storage. Objects are stored for as long as they deem them needed to be used. Those are containing additional information required by Destiny. Just taking weapons and armors, for example... You have a relational lookup to the base object - the actual "definition" of what an object is. Then, you have to know what perks your specific instance has. You need to know how you have progressed unlocking those perks. Plus, you need to know which of the unlock perks you have selected. The visual representation is only an artifact of the data defining that object being held in memory. It does not matter if the data originated from a database, or somewhere else - in order to process and evaluate it, Destiny needs to retain an in-memory representation of it. They allude to this in the article, as well. The inference can be made, that if they have removed the comparison feature for PS3 and XB360, that they accomplished what they are doing by discarding the additional information required to support that functionality, in order to store more objects with less information. It does not matter what other games accomplished - all software is written to its own requirements and specifications. Games like Diablo, for example, emphasize hoarding, so that is something explicitly planned for. No matter what game, no matter what console - there are constraints. The goal of any team is to implement as many features within those constraints as possible, with each one having its own costs in terms of time and resources (both the manpower type, and the consumable type). When working within tight constraints, it becomes a game of horse-trading, cutting or changes features in favor of other features that are in higher demand. Bungie had no crystal ball, and these vault space issues did not actually become an issue until months after release. Were this feedback supplied earlier in the process, it could have been better prioritized and addressed. Changing software, once it has been released into the wild, is considerably more time-consuming and risk-laden than working that into the pre-release tasks and processes.
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I'm trying to understand where you are coming from but it does not really make much sense. Are they are saying that the 360 has insufficient memory to access something that is stored on their servers? Or are you saying that memeory constrints are stopping the 360 from storing a few lines of code on the system? These are not fully anitmated enemies with AI routines, these are not game areas with tons of points of interaction, these are simply menu items selected from an online table and displayed on your screen. Basically table look ups. No matter what way you desribe this , they are utilising something that should NOT be system intensive If a system cant load a menu, then it generally wont run the programme. If this is that system intensive it points to some poor ass build , at least this is what the devs I work with complain about when fixing other peoples slack coding.
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Edited by jmferris: 3/27/2015 4:15:06 PMNeither. Data has to be "resident" to be evaluated. When it is "resident" that means that the data is stored in memory for those operations. It is the data itself that is requiring memory to be available that those systems simply do not have available. Lines of code have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion - apart from the fact that executable code is also ran in memory, further consuming those same resources. It does not matter that it is a menu item - it only exists because your console has the data in-memory to say that it does exist. Data takes storage space, and short-term storage is done in-memory, hence the requirement for it on your vault screens. The way that I described it is highly relevant, as it is something that even modern developers do not take into consideration anymore, as computer hardware has grown at a rate that these limits are not often hit. Back when I entered the industry, it was paramount, and memory usage needed to be mirco-managed in order for larger applications to operate correctly. Consoles are, effectively, greatly crippled computers, at the end of the day. In order to keep price points down, they use the bare minimum hardware components that they can to meet their requirements, which means that developers need to get creative in order to fully utilize that hardware. It is the exact reason that you do not start seeing full system potential realized until a good part of the way through a console's lifecycle. I have worked on many legacy systems, and what Bungie describes is extremely real. Judging code that you haven't seen based on hearsay of what a completely unrelated codebase is, is utterly short-sighted. Everyone who works with code works with shit code - that comes with the territory. But the assumption cannot be made that all code in a product is shit - that just is not realistic.
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Thank you. Someone understands.
